Evolving a long narrow O27 layout for limited space

You folks are ahead of me, however I wanted to point out that the three sections of different radius track had kinks in the joints and will not finish exactly at 180 degrees.

 

Having read through and then seeing how that kink was covered all is well.

 

Now.. how about trying MTH 072 to 054, will those make a good 180 degree curve?

 

Makes me wonder of I should convert to Scale Trax and use the flex to compensate for curvature that does not end at 180 degrees.

 

And finally but not least, I learned a hard lesson in HO Scale that large switches are best to run anything trouble free. So I have a handful of 072 MTH Switches I hope to be able to use as well.

 

I have not yet measured the new space that I am relocating to, but can tell you that the sectional Easements will be a cornerstone of the next layout. It just requires a different way of thinking how best to use the existing stock of track most of which is solid rail.

Hi Ace,

Do you have a way to mimic K-line switches  in Anyrail.

They are different from the 1122 and 1020 in that they need a fitter to use them on your latest layout.

Hi Ace,

Unless I am missing something, it looks like you wull need fitters between the Lionel track to make it work also.

This easement idea will work with any sectional track system that offers a variety of curve radii: just use wider radius sections to transition from straight track to minimum radius curves. The trick is to get the total angle of curve that you want without having to custom-cut pieces. The right combinations will give a good easement effect without adding a lot of width to a half-circle of mostly minimum radius track.

 

In some cases you will do better to use flextrack to make the easement sections, while still using sectional pieces to make uniform minimum-radius curves. That's what I did on parts of my HO layout.

 

The following example uses standard MTH track pieces. Depending on the radius, they use 8, 12, or 16 sections to make a full circle, plus they have half-curve sections. I don't have an MTH track library for AnyRail but I improvised using custom-curved 'filler' sections with the MTH geometry.

 

 

Ace:

 

Can AnyRail be run on a MAC....I have a MacBook Pro 15....

 

Spaceghost...

Hi Ace, Not sure if you saw my question, but my 0-27 Lionel (newest version) and K-line switches do not fit as shown in your latest Any rail drawing. They will need a fitter piece? Do the 1022 and 1122 switches work end to end as shown without filler piece? Are they a different profile than the 1122E switch?

For mac, check out RailModeller.  It's been working well for me and comes with a lot of different track types.  There's a free demo version as well.

discussed here: http://www.anyrail.com/forum_e...dex.php?topic=1346.0

 

Is there a Mac OS version?

No, there isn't, but you can run the software on a Mac using one of the tips provided here:

http://www.anyrail.com/forum_e...hp/topic,1024.0.html

Fred, I don't have the dimensions on "0-27 Lionel (newest version) and K-line switches" but in your photo it looks like the straight part is shortened after the frog, so they can be connected closer like for yard ladders. So they need a short fitter piece (supplied with switch?) to make them the same footprint as the older standard O27 switches.

 

In AnyRail you could just overlap the switches without actually making the connection. Zoom in on the plan and use a ruler to match the dimensions. Or maybe AnyRail will expand and update their track libraries. Or there may be other track software available with more features, but I am only familiar with the free version of AnyRail.

 

Correction: Fred is right, I hadn't understood his point the first time I read this - see following posts.

Hi Ace,

 I still cannot see how you can put two lefts or rights inline like on the middle yard tracks without an additional straight even with the old lionel switches.it looks like you would need at least a half straight on both the manual and the remote to clear the mechanism. Maybe it is in your drawing and I can not zoom in close enough?

 

You're right Fred, I had overlooked that because the AnyRail plan doesn't show the entire footprint of the base-plate of the switch. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll have to rework that idea ...

Ace, It would be nice if Any rail allowed one to make custom track. Then we could add the missing ones or fix the existing. Just picked up a full circle (16 pieces) of "New" NOS 72" dia 0-27 K-line on the bay. I will use your trick for making it from the 0 gauge filler piece.

Ace, If you take out one of the middle yard switches from each side and add 0-42 switches to the remaining ones, you should be able to get either two thru tracks with 5 1/4" centers or one thru and two spurs or four spurs. I use two o-27 with a half straight between for my ladder and two 0-42 switches (left and Right) to form my 4 track yard within about 25" wide. Then use two 0-27 back to back to join the yard to my curved lead track and my arrival departure track which parallels my mainline.

Actually, you can, sort of. Although AnyRail doesn't have an MTH track library, I made my own "library" for an example shown above. Before laying track I made "templates" of the MTH pieces (the sections that don't match standard-O dimensions) using custom-curved "filler" pieces based on the angle and estimated radius, and saved that plan as a separate file. Then the custom track pieces can be copied easily to use on a new layout plan, which can be saved as a separate file to preserve the original "templates".

 

 

I found this in the AnyRail website:

http://www.anyrail.com/forum_en/index.php?topic=884.0

 

Greetings. Was wondering if there are any plans to create a track library for MTH Scaletrax?

 

Re: MTH Scaletrax Track Library

We'd love to add them, but so far we've not found a good source with the exact dimensions of the track. We've tried to contact MTH about this a few times, but no results so far.

A good source with the exact dimensions of track.

 

Sheesh, why dont any rail simply purchase and then create the libary off the actual track sections... Are they that tight fisted.

 

Thank you Ace for your posts. It's been a very helpful.

I believe that the reason the are ignored by MTH is because they have an agreement with RR Track who provides the Software that MTH includes with its train sets. But I think they are an odd bunch at Any rail. Good software but not that knowledgeable about track. Those switches should not attach in ways that they cannot in reality unless you override and tell them to. It took awhile for them to fix Lionel 1/2 pieces of curve. They are intentionally not half. And that left out the option to use them as intended. And why not allow modified "fillers" to be saved in track library or at least as an object. But what do I know. Just another train guy wanting what is not yet available or in the configuration that I want. FMH

Hi Ace, Been playing around with Anyrail and my New 0-72 K-line and Marx 0-34. Made an interesting discovery. Used the "filler" to make 0-72 using 36" radius. Did the same with Marx 0-34 using 16.5"radius Something did not look right. Turns out and I checked with multiple pieces and circles that Marx is 33" Diam to outer rail. Not centerline Middle. As far as I can tell, using a 36" Starrette ruler, it is 31.75" centerline to centerline middle rail. That means to get a correct Marx 0-34, you will need to change your templates to 15.875"radius not 16.5". Unless I totally misunderstood your instructions and the diameter is measured to the outside rail. FMH

Fred, from what I've seen "Oxx" track is typically "xx" inches diameter over the outside of the ties, except O72 diameter might be measured to the track centerline. The old style 3-rail track is somewhat flexible and the dimensions not too critical for track planning IMO.

 

I just put together a circle of Marx O34 curves and it measures slightly under 34" diameter over the ends of the ties, with a radius to centerline close to 16 inches. I'm not sure why I used 16.5" in my AnyRail plans, maybe because I originally measured it across a half-circle of track. If you make a full continuous circle, it tightens up the radius slightly. I assume that AnyRail figures track radius to the track centerline.

This is my latest idea for a new track plan on my existing 36"x 138" table. This time I made sure that the bulky O27 switch base-plates will actually fit the arrangement. With the use of some Marx 11.2" long straights, no cutting of track sections is required. Four 1122 "non-derailing" switches will allow hands-off loop-to-loop operation. The other six switches will be 1022 and 1024 manual control. The older 1024 manual switches have a smaller footprint.

 

The mainline oval has O54 easements into the O27 end curves. More yard tracks provide more car storage. Long straight runs allow fast running. Two trains can probably orbit each other on the big oval. 

 

Two half-straights are actually somewhat longer than a single full straight, which is why I have used paired half-straights in a couple places to make things fit without cutting.

Hi Ace, I

Hi Ace, I like the fact that you use diagonals for your Yard Ladders. It avoids the unavoidable S curves you get When making closely spaced parallel spurs and passing sidings. Unfortunately you cannot get your yard tracks that much closer than what you got them now. One of the reasons I bought the plans to make 15° turnouts using o 27 parts. Now to find the time.....

Funny, Here is a prototype S curve in my home town in MA.

I will be reconfiguring the track on my winter layout project. This is my tentative plan:

 

 

No special cut pieces are required except for some half-O34 curves which I already have on hand. The main route has O54 easements leading into the O27 end curves.

Lee 145;

I do the Step down in radius on my layout.

My mainline is O-72, O-54, O-72 curves but the sidings and Wyes are mixed.

The Wyes go O-72, O-54, 1/2 O-54,O-72 I believe.

The sidings are whatever I could cram in and are not eased. I even have some O-31 in those, ICK!

This is my latest track arrangement on the 3'x 12' winter project layout. It provides a good-size oval circuit with reversing tracks for test-running, and the O27 end curves have nice easements. The front track is set back 6 inches from the table edge, so derailed trains won't risk falling to the floor.

 

I added disconnected storage tracks to park my assorted repair projects. The two 1122 switches at the back have capacitor-discharge fixed power supply; the other switches are all manual control for now. The four 1022 manual switches have the advantage of power-routing, so I can cut power to siding and spurs just by throwing the track switches.

 

Maybe in another month or so I will want to try out a different track plan. 

 

My current temporary layout is pretty good as a test track for my winter repair projects. I like the reversing capability and reasonably long straight stretches with O54 easements into all the O27 curves of the main circuit. The main shortcoming is that I don't have enough 'parking space' on connecting tracks for different trains that I like to run alternately.

 

I'm considering this alternate plan that maintains reversing features and easements and provides more tracks to park different complete trains. I'm not crazy about the reverse curves through some of the switches, but the main circuit has a good alinement and wider O34 curves (using old Marx track). I kinda favor figure-8 circuits as a good test of tracking ability for curves both ways, and it avoids crowding a long run of track near the front table edge. 

 

Some O42 switches would be desirable but I just have the common O27 switches.

I like it. You can park one train on the north track while another one runs. Very cool. But a quick search on ebay showed only one seller of O34 Marx curved track @ $40 + 10 shpg. I'm not sure the easements are worth that much...at least to me they're not.

I'm about ready to do a different track plan on my 3'x 12' shelf. The shortcoming with the present plan (see previous photo) is not enough track for the number of cars and locos on hand. There isn't really room for long sidings plus switch connections so I'm going to fit in two separate circuits of track, with fewer switches this time. The disconnected tracks provide additional car storage. This is my tentative plan:  

 

I'm also thinking ahead to the next revision beyond this - I will probably go to two levels, eventually.

Yesterday I rearranged my track plan, similar to the plan above but with only two switches. Two independent circuits to cruise two trains, I like it. Kinda looks like a busy junction scene in the middle, but without a bunch of complicated switchwork. I don't really like the look of trains going through sharp O27 switches. I used O54 "easements" for the O27 and O34 curves as much as possible.

 

If it looks kinda basic, that's cuz it was born yesterday.

Slight revisions on my seasonal layout plan to include O54 easements on all of the O27 curves, and the actual spur locations for now.

 

With two trains running I have had an occasional senior moment where I thought the two trains were going to crash at the crossing, momentarily forgetting that the two circuits are completely independent.

Ya gotta love those little brain farts!

This is my latest "auxiliary layout" plan. Until I come up with a master plan to possibly expand my main layout, I like to build these smaller temporary layouts to try out different track plans and run some of my O27 trains that can't find track space on the main layout.

 

I favor figure-8 plans for small layouts and I like this long orientation with the 45° crossing, but it takes over 8 feet of length with the easements. I broke my rule about no reverse curves but it's just for intermittent use on the reverse cutoff, and it makes an interesting compact junction arrangement. I have some 11.2" Marx 'long straights' which helped build the arrangement with no cutting of track pieces.

 

Then I added a shelf below a window with a siding, and a reverse loop over a dresser on the other side of the room. Two longer trains can run alternately, or they can both park and a third shorter train can run out of the one spur and around the figure-8 portion. Or the three trains can all park and a fourth train can be hand-placed for occasional operation. Overall, a fairly satisfying arrangement for a smaller temporary (?) layout.

 

 

The extension uses a mix of O27 and standard track. I'm not thrilled with the "brainless" 1122 non-derailing switches for O27 so I've used three standard-O switches as shown on the plan. The reverse loop switch and adjacent siding switch machines get power from a capacitor charged through a diode from track voltage so I didn't have to run an extra wire across the room. 

 

 

On the shelf above the O27 figure-8  layout I have some mini-layout projects in HO and HOn30. The twice-around HOn30 qualifies as a micro-layout. If you asked me how many layout projects I have going on, I think I can count them on two hands.

I think this thread brings up a good point..which is there is no substitution ( in this case software ) for doing what we did as kids, that is to lay out and assemble the tracks and try out how all this is arranged by running trains. Its easier than rebuilding and does not take forever. Thats been my retro- methodology. I saved myself some headaches this way, and what looked good on paper, I realized did not suit what I wanted to do, or the clearances were off, etc. I could edit by seeing stuff actually run. Over at Garden Railways magazine, there is a monthly article called something like "My Greatest Mistake"Each one of them put down track or built something that in the end, had clearance problems or other issues that came up after the fact.. Its instructive and a good read despite the design mishaps  being in another scale. In tinplate I learned that the old style track is kinda counter intuitive to the thought that tin is more forgiving...I found that the older stuff is very sensitive to correct alignments and sharp curvatures. I came to that conclusion by running a variety of equipment on it before screws and nails were applied. Many a switch was eliminated in this way.

Bruce

Great thread. I only have o42 and o27. Really like the idea as I was forced to cut my layout width by 1ft creating an issue with an o42 reverse loop in the middle of my layout. I wanted to run some o31 min locos so an all o27 loop would not do as I wanted to eliminate o27 switch clearance issues. I found a list of o31 locos that will handle o27 curves and wanted to keep the o27 curves to a min and "ease" them in. My design only has four o27 curves now so I think all will be well.

 

I was faced with creating a loop starting from an o42 switch > easement from o42 and o27 > o42 switch > easement from o42 and o27 back to o42 switch . The formula I came up was o42+1/2 o42+o27+o27+1/2 o42+o42.

         30deg+15+45+45+15+30=180

 

I also toyed with o54 > o42 > o27. What to cut is on the plan below. If you can't see you cut 2 11/16" from the top of an o42 and 2 1/2 from the bottom.

 

054 >3/4 o42 > o27 (on right). Trouble there is getting back to the o42 switch so I stopped