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Hello ladies and gents,

I have the American flyer 1934 Burlington zephyr 9900. This train is the solid aluminum one.  It has been running perfectly and all of a sudden the central gear between the wheels stripped on a quarter of the gear. I guess it just wore out. Look at the attached pictures on the center gear. I need help in aquiring this type of gear and maybe the part number. Would someone help. This is one of three antique trains that I use the most and just cannot put it on the self to dust. 

Thanks

Attachments

Images (3)
  • IMG_20170419_165008: This center gear, number on it but cannot read it and patient
  • IMG_20170419_164848
  • IMG_20170419_164819
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You might check the gear teeth on the drive wheels also, to make sure they are not damaged.

Years ago, the buzz was that certain types of oils were reputed to attack old diecast - in particular 3 in 1 oil. I do not know that for a certainty, it's just what I was told. Plastic compatible oil was judged to be a better bet.

Last edited by RoyBoy

Hey Jim,

Now first of all eBay has quite a few zephyr tin trains on sale under American flyer zephyr o Gauge. I do not know enough about the tin zephyr to say my engine would work on yours. My engine is supposed to be first run and only made in 1934.  The cars are sand cast and hand polished which at that time period was extremely expensive.

These trains are slowly disappear ing quickly because they have not been taken care of and broken down for parts and also just thrown in the trash.

Last edited by trainut
jim pastorius posted:

I didn't know they made a cast one-tht would be nice to have. Might look for one. I hate to throw my tin shell away so it might become a static display.

Jim,

For an older american flyer this is a very beautiful locomotive and set. I have the 3 car set. I was very lucky to find the one I did. Be careful of ones that have a lot of heavy scratches and dents. Now, motor, motor parts are getting very had to find on the 1934 aluminum engine. The forward and reverse switch is underneath the engine and is hand moved. If you also notice on the brush plate mine is riveted not screwed on. One of the pains of owning a very early train. I'll get over it. Once you buy one and give a little tender car to it, be careful it will fly off the track in a heart beat. It is normal for the smoke stack to be broken or heavily cracked. Some kind of odd material was used and did not hold up. Easy to get a replacement.

Trainut

trainut posted:
Harry Henning posted:

Hey Trainut,

          I have 1 original gear, still looks pretty good.  It is yours for a SSAE.  Harry

Hey Harry

That would be great but what is "SSAE"?

Trainut

Stamped, Self-Addressed Envelope. Mail him an envelope with your address, and postage, already on it, so all he has to do it drop in the gear and put it in the mail.

Just a tidbit for thought or use on the zephyr. I am only a year and half into collecting trains again. Of course I have collected what I want and that is it. So talk to me like I am 5 years old. Now, back to the zephyr. On the simple spoon like pickup there is a brass rod that allows the collector to move up and down with a spring. Trying to keep original pieces, found that when the pickup wears down on the center rail you can apply solder to the pickup and smooth it out with the flat tip on the iron and works great! To save the spring I use a folded cut piece of Scotch Brite pad that does not touch the wheels or extend over the pickup. I have run the train over 5 hrs at a time and for several days and it does not get hot or catch on fire. I am not suggesting that you do this but it works for me. Just trying to keep original parts.

Of course the old timers probably knew this already, but alas it is still fun, yes fun learning all of these little tricks.

Thanks for listening to my run on.

Trainut

imageI have to comment on this motor! I have 3 sets of the cast aluminum Zephyr sets from 1934, and every one of them have the same design motor, which is NOT like yours! I am guessing your motor is from the tin version of the Zephyr. All my motors have roller pickups and not the brass spoons.

    Will attempt to attach photos of my motor(s)

Attachments

Images (1)
  • image
Greentrain48 posted:

imageI have to comment on this motor! I have 3 sets of the cast aluminum Zephyr sets from 1934, and every one of them have the same design motor, which is NOT like yours! I am guessing your motor is from the tin version of the Zephyr. All my motors have roller pickups and not the brass spoons.

    Will attempt to attach photos of my motor(s)

Hi Greentrain48,

I am so glad you have responded. I have greatly researched the 1934  9900 Zephyr American Flyer and due to lack of info, I can not research the engine on the train. I have read some articles that I could find. Please enlighten me as to what you have, as far as info on the Zephyr. I am willing to learn.

Thanks

Trainut

Last edited by trainut

Hi Trainut!

When I bought my first Zephyr set, off the buy/sell section on this forum, I had no idea of what I was getting into! I was very fortunate in meeting a fellow through the Lionel Collectors Club of America who had been refurbishing both the small and large versions of the cast aluminum sets for a number of years. He informed me of the various part suppliers around, of which several were named in previous posts to you here. But all those suppliers are supplying parts for the aluminum bodied sets. There may be some crossover into the tin sets for wheels or gears, but I have my doubts.

      The weak point on the aluminum sets was the cast drive wheels and the 60 tooth idler gear that transfers the power from the motor to the wheels. They tend to swell and crack with age due to zinc impurities in the casting metal.

       In your case I think the gear gave out from pushing the weight of the three car bodies. Looking at the picture of your motor again, I suspect your stripped idler gear  has its shaft "peened" over to keep it in place. The gear on the aluminum bodied  units floats on its shaft, and is kept in place by the gears that are integral to the back of the drive wheels. Your gear may be next to impossible to remove and replace without some machinest work! Plus, the gears on the back of your drive wheels may also be damaged. 

     I really think you should look for the correct motor to power your units. Used motors do come up on the bay now and then. Or you could get another powered unit and part out the motor. 

      A good source for prewar American Flyer info and pictures is at Classic Toy Trains forum ( cs.trains.com).-Prewar American Flyer Pictures- an Invitation. Lots of reading about all aspects of AF production.  

          Picture of my  four unit set        IMG_1102  

About 50 hours of polishing,rewheeled power car,new exhaust stack,new decals, added grab rails to engineer's compartment door. Runs super nice!    

       Keep in touch!.......Ken       

       

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Images (1)
  • IMG_1102

hello guys and gals

You could use a Lionel spur motor with 6 wheels from a postwar #2037 and use it on this Zephyr and you gain magnet-traction to pull more coaches.   I believe it can be done with small amount of work to make it fit and turn it into a Super Zephyr. This would be special or "one of a kind"  Just a idea

Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men. Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:14 NKJV (New King James Version)

Tiffany

Last edited by Tiffany
Greentrain48 posted:

Hi Trainut!

When I bought my first Zephyr set, off the buy/sell section on this forum, I had no idea of what I was getting into! I was very fortunate in meeting a fellow through the Lionel Collectors Club of America who had been refurbishing both the small and large versions of the cast aluminum sets for a number of years. He informed me of the various part suppliers around, of which several were named in previous posts to you here. But all those suppliers are supplying parts for the aluminum bodied sets. There may be some crossover into the tin sets for wheels or gears, but I have my doubts.

      The weak point on the aluminum sets was the cast drive wheels and the 60 tooth idler gear that transfers the power from the motor to the wheels. They tend to swell and crack with age due to zinc impurities in the casting metal.

       In your case I think the gear gave out from pushing the weight of the three car bodies. Looking at the picture of your motor again, I suspect your stripped idler gear  has its shaft "peened" over to keep it in place. The gear on the aluminum bodied  units floats on its shaft, and is kept in place by the gears that are integral to the back of the drive wheels. Your gear may be next to impossible to remove and replace without some machinest work! Plus, the gears on the back of your drive wheels may also be damaged. 

     I really think you should look for the correct motor to power your units. Used motors do come up on the bay now and then. Or you could get another powered unit and part out the motor. 

      A good source for prewar American Flyer info and pictures is at Classic Toy Trains forum ( cs.trains.com).-Prewar American Flyer Pictures- an Invitation. Lots of reading about all aspects of AF production.  

          Picture of my  four unit set        IMG_1102  

About 50 hours of polishing,rewheeled power car,new exhaust stack,new decals, added grab rails to engineer's compartment door. Runs super nice!    

       Keep in touch!.......Ken       

       

Good Morning Ken,

Great Train picture, did you use rouge and polishing wheel or hand rub? I am at the moment hand rubbing mine to save the last of the original decals. I don't think I will be able to save them, they keep flaking off. Thank you for good info on the engine.

 

In reference to paragraph 3 : First a fresh cup of coffee, got it. I have been surfing the web for descriptions and pictures of the zephyr for mine and the engine. I ran across  the" BLUE COMET "by american flyer, seems to have the same engine in all detail but as mine has one pick up this engine has 2 pick ups in copper and spoon shape. Does not seem to be cut in half but a likely possibility. Another difference is the reverse switch, again this matches the "BLUE COMET" and if my memory serves me well was made before the 9900 zephyr. Correct me if I am wrong. The wheels on my engine has no inflammation in the wheels but has no hole for a drive rod as yours does and a lot of pictures do on the 9900  1934 version. Must, at the time been using up extra stock.

 

The idler gear that was on my engine was replaced with a new one sent to me by Harry Henning, thanks again Harry!, was an exact copy.  40 teeth and 7/8" wide and was held in place by the drive wheels, no peening on the shaft. There is a very thin copper washer behind the idle gear, it looks like a small record fitting the shaft and showing some rubbing as being there a long time because, there was harden grease on it and the surrounding area. The gear itself showing on the back a raised shaft between 1/16 to 1/32 inches in rise. To me looks like a zinc gear, not sure or just unpolished steel. The gears again are exactly the same gear. Referencing the drive wheels again, I cleaned them with with warm water and dawn dish soap, both have the usual wear from "the years" thankfully with years left of "great play". Then lined with white lithium. On a first encounter with the axles, they do not remove with out disassembling the frame, lionel had the better idea. American flyer a better built engine with exceptions.

 

Whew, brain damage from to much thinking.  Cobwebs burning, wondering why it was a little warm or is it the coffee?

 

Referencing transitional/crossover trains paragraph 1: Have a 1201 american flyer (circa 1929 steeple cab {going on memory} maybe "CHICAGO"), uses the above idle gear 60 teeth. The situation I am in, is with the engine on the collector(s). plus a field wire I broke, Oh Joy, Oh Rapture!, Oh .... ! Using a current diagram on the Chicago 1201 supplied by a great dealer! Made to perfection as the diagram showed, but mine had a different configuration on the tabs in my frame. Utilizing what I had left over on my 1201 collector which was not enough. The collector had the pieces of the wire attached to and thru what was the material that held the collector in the frame and a copper tuning fork for the power receptor. I have no idea if it had a roller or a spoon type pick up. All help is need on this!!!!

#33 standard gauge prewar lionel green engine I acquired threw me for a loop. Ran perfect but had no pulling power. Done all kind of surgery, thanks again to Harry Henning and Jeff Kain for parts . Found out what was going on and was told how to rewire the conotator. Great learning experience believe me. Can not remember his name, this has been a while and will have to go back in my notes. It was stated that to look at my engine how it was used in  different engines made before mine and the corners where cut on the frame to fit in different newer later models. He had written several books on prewar standard engines. I was informed on quite a lot of issues that needed to be repaired. I had sent pictures of the interior of the engine. To my amazement he stated that he had never seen a standard engine supermotor made that way. Threw him off balance. Seems to be a transitional supermotor probably a "*******" style or experimental. I had no idea because at that time I was just learning about that type of engine.

 

Have a few more engines like this that  make a "Winnie the Pooh day" a new adventure in searching for parts. What I am trying to say is that I lean toward your information ...but it is a possibility the Zephyr could have been created this way?

 

Thanks for the info and before I bore all of you to death

Trainnut

 PS   A word to the wise, when working on a lionel vanderbuilt engine please be sure to totally reassemble the engine  and shell when testing. Don't leave the draw bars loose and dangling to test a e module, all the time you spent after replacing the barrel and putting it back together will grab the track and throw it off the track onto the table then on to the floor breaking the peg off the barrel inside the e unit. A Winnie the Pooh day, ready for adventure?  

Last edited by trainut
Tiffany posted:

hello guys and gals

You could use a Lionel spur motor with 6 wheels from a postwar #2037 and use it on this Zephyr and you gain magnet-traction to pull more coaches.   I believe it can be done with small amount of work to make it fit and turn it into a Super Zephyr. This would be special or "one of a kind"  Just a idea

Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men. Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:14 NKJV (New King James Version)

Tiffany

I like your type of thinking!

Trainut

Tiffany has a very good idea. I saw a Lionel motor fitted into an aluminum power car on the bay maybe a month ago, and there is a set up for auction right now with what looks like a 6 drivered Marx motor in it.

      Nice that you were able to get the right gear for your motor and get it back to operating condition!

      I use Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish from an auto supply store with soft rags and Q tip swabs to polish my cars. Very hands on!

      Port Line has water slide decals for the Zepher 3 car set. #167 @ $9.00. Also has self adhesive type which I have never used. Because the water slide ones are black on a clear film, I paint the depressed areas where the decals go a pale gold (auto body scratch touch-up pen) so the finished product looks like AF original. A hint that my mentor gave me!

       Only other AF I have is a 401 sheet metal steamer, a 420 diecast steamer, and now a diecast 425 steamer w/ cast Vanderbilt tender. No steeple cabs or other electric outline units so can't answer your questions about their motors. There is a lot of expertise on the other site I told you about, and information is freely given!

      Best to you.......Ken

       

Greentrain48 posted:

Tiffany has a very good idea. I saw a Lionel motor fitted into an aluminum power car on the bay maybe a month ago, and there is a set up for auction right now with what looks like a 6 drivered Marx motor in it.

      Nice that you were able to get the right gear for your motor and get it back to operating condition!

      I use Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish from an auto supply store with soft rags and Q tip swabs to polish my cars. Very hands on!

      Port Line has water slide decals for the Zepher 3 car set. #167 @ $9.00. Also has self adhesive type which I have never used. Because the water slide ones are black on a clear film, I paint the depressed areas where the decals go a pale gold (auto body scratch touch-up pen) so the finished product looks like AF original. A hint that my mentor gave me!

       Only other AF I have is a 401 sheet metal steamer, a 420 diecast steamer, and now a diecast 425 steamer w/ cast Vanderbilt tender. No steeple cabs or other electric outline units so can't answer your questions about their motors. There is a lot of expertise on the other site I told you about, and information is freely given!

      Best to you.......Ken

       

Ken

Again thanks for the info.

I researched the engines you listed  NICE!

I do have a correction on my comment about the Blue Comet  it was created 1936 but I still have to confess my engine looks a lot like that. That would put it post Zephyr.

Trainut

Greentrain48 posted:

 

      A good source for prewar American Flyer info and pictures is at Classic Toy Trains forum ( cs.trains.com).-Prewar American Flyer Pictures- an Invitation. Lots of reading about all aspects of AF production.  

          Picture of my  four unit set        IMG_1102  

About 50 hours of polishing,rewheeled power car,new exhaust stack,new decals, added grab rails to engineer's compartment door. Runs super nice!    

       Keep in touch!.......Ken       

       

Greentrain48,

That is a very nice looking Zephyr.  I only have a 3 car version, and it runs like a charm.

And thanks for the plug.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

trainut posted:
Tiffany posted:

hello guys and gals

You could use a Lionel spur motor with 6 wheels from a postwar #2037 and use it on this Zephyr and you gain magnet-traction to pull more coaches.   I believe it can be done with small amount of work to make it fit and turn it into a Super Zephyr. This would be special or "one of a kind"  Just a idea

Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men. Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:14 NKJV (New King James Version)

Tiffany

I like your type of thinking!

Trainut

Hello Trainut

Go for it !    I see the pictures posted here showing the 4 wheel motor for the Zephyr and seems to be of nearly same size long and wide as a Lionel #2037  6 wheel motor and should be able to fit in the shell with little work.  You could purchase a few of the 2037 motors for spares too.  Perhaps install Evan's LED's for the windows lighting then a red pin stripes along the windows sides (top of and bottom of).  Since "Burlington route" trains do have red pin stripes on their engines.   Thus The Super Zephyr !!!

"PRAISE the Lord, all you gentiles !  Laud Him, all you peoples ! For His merciful kindness is great toward to us, And the truth of the Lord endures forever. Praise the Lord !   Psalm 117:1-2 NKJV (New King James Version)

Tiffany

Last edited by Tiffany
Tiffany posted:

hello guys and gals

You could use a Lionel spur motor with 6 wheels from a postwar #2037 and use it on this Zephyr and you gain magnet-traction to pull more coaches.   I believe it can be done with small amount of work to make it fit and turn it into a Super Zephyr. This would be special or "one of a kind"  Just a idea

Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men. Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:14 NKJV (New King James Version)

Tiffany

Just a quick question.  Do you know are the wheel flanges smaller on the #2037 than the ones on the original 9900?  I have a new layout with all Ross track and Ross Switches and the 9900 can't make it through any switch.  I would replace the entire original motor with that one if it would work.

Thanks

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