1950s Lionel F3 2343 Santa Fe engine

Maybe a white lithium grease.

Sorry if the quality isn't perfect, but best I could do with a cell phone and Greenbergs manual sitting on my desk. The 2333 and 2343 are essentially the same in the wiring I believe and the 2353 differs in that the horn and horn relay are in the dummy.

Hope these help some:

Service literature pages can also be viewed on the Olsen's website:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2343p.htm

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/f3-1.pdf

 

Hi,

 

Looks like you've got the wiring covered.  As far as the gearbox, I've lubed my 2343s with white lithium.  I wouldn't put too much in the worm box, as when things warm up a bit it works its way out and onto things you don't want it to, like the carpet.  I've gotten into the habit of running my trains after a service on a small loop on my shop floor, with the shells off, to find any issues like this before they come into the house.  Don't forget the orientation of the bronze bearing blocks, as they can be position sensitive and cause a bind if put in 180 degrees from where they were.  A small mark with an awl when disassembling lets you know right side up.  As a side note, I recently sent my 227 to Dennis Waldron for some work, and he suggests using cam assembly lube on the worm.  I'm going to try that next time.

 

John

I have tried the posted wiring schematics in addition to what I had photographed and nothing. Could it be the gauge of wire I am using? Its 20 AWG.

 

Thanks.

20 guage wire is fine. is E unit buzzing? follow each of the e unit wires with the diagram and ensure they in correct position.

Concur on what john r said, watch out for that axle.

Rudy, there are some guys in MI fairly local to you that maybe can help. Maybe someone will chime in here. If not, send it down to me.

Rob

Hi Rudy, The electrical you hear from the track, is that sound still there when the engine is removed? Based on what you have written I think you may have a short or power to ground problem. The coupler wire can be snipped off, make sure it is not grounding to  frame. Your first goal should be getting the E unit to buzz. I would remove any wire connecting to the power side of the E unit this does not include the thin coil wire in the E unit. Place the engine on the track and connect the center rail to the power side of the E unit with a wire. Does the E unit operate?

An easy way to check for a short in the engine is to power up the track with a lighted caboose on the track and observe how bright the light is.  Then carefully place your engine on the track.  If the light in the caboose dims appreciably or goes out, you likely have a short someplace in the engine.

 

Earl

Here is the opposite side photo that you requested. It seems you have two main problems, the e unit not being powered ( not buzzing) and the front motor being locked up. stew1957 explained how to power the e unit and I would follow his instructions. When using this method have the e unit mounted in the frame to get the ground that is needed. Also make sure the reversing lever is moved all the way to the rear on the engine frame so that the upper part of the lever seats into the eyelet which then completes the circuit to power the e unit. As for your motor locking up I had this same problem at one point. If I remember correctly the problem was the the bronze bearings as John R explained. There is only one correct direction that they seat properly. Since your rear motor moves freely I would remove the rear motor, check the position of the boroze bearings on the rear truck and then determine the correct postion for the front truck as well. Hope this photo and info helps  

I see you are in Michigan, I will off to look at it for you and you pay postage both ways...Don't see a email in your profile???

 

Marty

Take up Marty's offer. He will take care of you.

Rob

Rudy

I concur with oldrob on this one. Marty just took my Santa Fe 2353  (https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/d...nt/12129987971969968)under his wing and had it running like new the day he received it from me. If you want to get this rascal pulling freight or passenger cars again-I recommend Marty and his offer to you. Well worth it IMO and thanks again Marty

As Marty stated the black wire runs to the headlight. One addtional idea. If your front motor is still locked up, remove it from the truck, check the motor armature by moving it at open end of the motor or on the rear of the motor housing check that the gears are freely moving. If not then you have a problem with your motor assembly. If the motor is ok then check the drive gear at the top of the truck. Again it and the wheels should move freely. If not then there is a truck issue. Once both units move freely then remount the motor to the truck. Before powering it up go to the open end of the motor housing again and again using a tooth pick or small screw driver move the upper gear. It and the rest of the drive train including the armature, gears and wheels should move freely. If not then there is problem with the motor seating properly onto the truck. Again hope this helps. If not then sending it to Marty may be your best option. 

Gentlemen,

 

Sure enough, the motor problem was the bronze bearings.

The front and rear worm axles have identical bearings, both bearings are different but

are identical front and rear if that makes sense.

 

The bearing in them is not quite at the center, an offset if you will and they have to

match side to side. After I swapped them out and aligned them, both motors turn with

ease. Thinking about a possible ground issue, I went back through and cleaned all the

brass contacts, using a dremmel and fine wire wheel, removed paint from the frame

where it came in contact with the motor.

 

In the end, it was all for not.

 

As for the E-Unit, apparently I didn't have it pressed back together correctly and the red

barrel with the teeth at the center fell out and when I tried to squeeze it back together,

one of the two sides bent, a wire came out of the corroded metal finger contact board

and one end of the fiber board that engages at the top of the E-Unit broke off. Needless

to say, its destroyed. 

 

It appears I need the following:

A new E-Unit

A new horn relay

A new headlight contact and wire - I cut the wire by mistake - too short now.

Re-wiring.

 

Although I have a pretty good understanding now of how this thing works,

I've decided not to take a chance on my own to repair it. So now, I'm trying to decide if

the ole' girl I bought used from my cousin 29 years ago where it ran great up until 2

weeks ago is worth investing any money into repairing it.

 

I'm guessing the cost to ship to and from a repair shop is probably $25.00 and that's

not including the parts or the repair bill.  With all of your collective knowledge of these

engines, I would appreciate you input as to wether or not its cost to repair is worth it.

 

Thanks.

 

Joe

Harvey is right, this unit is well worth repairing. Give Jeff Kane at the train tender a call for your parts. His number is 585 229 2050.

You are in Michigan, shoot me a email about your engine...

 

Marty

"As for the E-Unit, apparently I didn't have it pressed back together correctly and the red

barrel with the teeth at the center fell out and when I tried to squeeze it back together,

one of the two sides bent, a wire came out of the corroded metal finger contact board

and one end of the fiber board that engages at the top of the E-Unit broke off. Needless

to say, its destroyed."

 

I'll disagree, having fixed more than my share of these in similar condition. The drum and both finger boards are available. You should be able to straighten the bent side to a point where it is usable. As you have found out, getting one of these back together with everything in the proper place is a little tricky. However, it is quite feasible. Get the parts from a dealer of your LHS and have at it. Keep a healthy dose of patience nearby!

 

Chris

LVHR

Nothing like a good old E-unit overhaul and repair to develop character.  Honestly, it can be time consuming and tedious but I've done a few of them and believe me if I can do it anyone can.  Good luck.  By the way, you can google Lionel E-unit repair and come with a couple of very instructive videos on the subject.

Greetings!

 

If there was a vote for a person who stands behind "Old school" principles in making a

customer satisfied with their service, the "Lionel Trainmaster" would be Martin Derouin.

The interactions between he and I via - e-mails, telephone conversations, shipping and services rendered goes above and beyond anyone I have dealt with in the last 35 years.

If you truly have a problem with your Lionel, Marty is the one to call.

 

Joe (Rudy) Weise

Problem:  As a brave train neube I disassembled my Santa Fe 2343 Engine which came out of 45 years of storage.  I cleaned everything carefully and while replacing the motors I have run into a problem.  When tightened the motor down on the trucks through the frame the gears bind and wheels don't turn?  there is no shim under the motor.  Unless the screws are loose the wheels don't turn??  What did I do wrong?  Bob

Check the Worm Shaft Bearing Block.  You probably have to flip it 180 degrees.  The Bearing has a high side & low side, it is not centered.  When installed wrong, it binds up.

The rear motor has a ground spring between the motor casting and the frame. If the rear motor is assembled without the ground spring the gears will bind. If the unit is run without the ground spring the gears will strip out. Don't loose the ground spring!

This is almost always the problem.  Very easy mistake to make.

Not trying to Jack this post, but I have the Santa Fe 2343 and wanted to add the MTH Proto-Sound 2 (#50-1902) in it so that I can enjoy it on my layout with the rest of my engines.  The Proto-Sounds 2 says it's for any AC or DC engine with DC Can Motors.

Will this work with my train?  I've never done "surgery" to any of my engines before, so I wanted to ask before I jumped in with both feet.

Thanks!

It will work only if you convert it to DC can motors.