2 Questions about a Postwar Lionel 2360 GG-1

Sounds like your good deal was modified...could you post pics?it would help...i would be interested in seeing yours...joe

I've taken apart a number of postwar GG1s (2340) and couple were NIB. I've found Greenberg's to be 100% accurate - if it's not shown it was modified after it left the factory. As to those particular mods I don't know much about them. If it were me I'd spend the time to return the unit to factory original.

Hi Sal,

I've actually found a number of errors in Greenberg for various engines. I just don't believe that the insulator paper should go below the bracket. Doesn't make sense.

I will be sending the shell to Len Caparelli for repaint, so yes......I am going to be improving this bad boy quite a bit.

Have you ever seen lock washers under the motors?

Roger

Here's my reasoning for thinking that the insulating paper goes under the relay. If you look at page 2 on the Olson site or Greenberg, it shows the paper under the bracket. What would be the point of that?  The relay on top would be in contact with the bracket which is grounded to the frame. Mounted above the bracket it isolates it. From what I can see, mounted below, it serves no purpose.

Roger

Joe,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I'll probably take some pics later in the process..it's all apart right now. The only modification I can see, is the presence of lock washers under the motor. Everything else I mentioned was unseen parts (like the paper insulator) falling out before I could see that it was even there or where it came from.

Roger

It's been about a year since I've taken one apart so can't exactly remember, but lock washer doesn't ring a bell. To me it doesn't seem like it'd work well as it seems it would impede swiveling of the motor. For what it's worth, one of my GG1s was known to be NIB/never used (inherited) and it matched Greenberg's perfectly (at least for the dual motor GG1).

Interesting. Len is working on one of my 2340s at this very moment (total loss due to water damage) and when I get that back I'm to send him a second that had a lot of battery damage.

Hi Roger, I did exactly as you did. I found a 2360 on the bay and proceeded to do a total tear down. I found the same set up with star washers between the frame and trucks. After trial error I decided to leave them in place. It seemed like the wheels were rubbing on the frame without them and by the looks of it they had been there for a very long time.It must have been a fix that was done back in the day.As for the paper on the relay I don't remember seeing that.

Well, I've got some interesting news. I Facetimed with Jeff Kane earlier tonight, so he could open his 2360 while I had mine open. Lo and behold.......his engine had the lock washers in there as well. So.....it was either an omission on the part of the Greenberg diagrams or perhaps since both the 2340 and 2360 are referred to the same diagrams, maybe the washers were added to the later 2360s. In any case, they would not impede the swiveling of the motor as the motor is attached to the truck and the truck swivels with it. And.....it might act as a ground spring.

Also, Jeff's engine had the insulating paper UNDER the relay bracket (unlike the diagram that shows it over it). That diagram just didn't make sense to me. So.....that appears to be a mistake on the diagram. 

Now, if I can get that crazy horn to work, I'll be in business.

Roger

Thanks, Richard.  Didn't see your post before I put mine in. There's a delay there. Fascinating stuff.

Roger

An update on my "new" GG-1. I just finished working on it. It runs terrific now. Fast, powerful and smooth. Took all afternoon today to get the silly horn to work (as usual). Working now, every time. I had to go to plan B on this one.....the last resort "take it apart" solution. Fixed it. I left the star washers in there and it tracks great. In fact, I had anticipated having trouble with the pony trucks derailing over my switches (a somewhat common problem with these, apparently). I read about the "fix" for that on the Forum here.  Two composite washers and a spring mounted on the "hook" of the pony trucks. I ordered that stuff in advance of my engine arriving. When I tested it out of the box, I had no derailing, but installed those parts anyway and it tracks like a champ now through the switches with no "wander" of the pilots. Nice

My original plan was to have Len Caparelli repaint the shell (he currently has my 2345 shells). But I'm getting a bit leary of "turnaround time" and I think I'll wait to see how long my F3 shells take (as opposed to a quoted time). If anyone reading this post has had experience with them repainting shells, info about the actual turnaround time would be helpful. Thanks!

Roger

Len has worked on stuff for me (including painting). Takes a long time - 3 months or so, but this is with GG1 shells, which may be different than plastic F3. He has lots of projects and he does it right however.

Len re-did my dad's 2383s, a pre-war 254 electric (water damage), and a set of 2400 passenger cars.  The work takes a long time, but the prices are fair and it comes back beautiful.  I think of it essentially as akin to rushing an artist -- you can't do it.

"Two composite washers and a spring mounted on the "hook" of the pony trucks."

I'd love to see a photo of that if at all possible.

Bill,

When I get a chance later, I'll take a pony off and photograph it. Works great in stabilizing  the wheels. In fact, the last thing I did with it last night was try to run it through a pair of my back to back, serpentine 027 switch pairs. Blew through like they weren't there. Smooth. And a bonus for me.......I use PW #91 breakers on my layout. The tiniest short will trip them. I had problems with my switches when I first installed them. Any engine that had slightly wobbly wheels  would trip them going over some of the switches. Wheels tapping a frog or a roller brushing a side rail. No problem with this one.

Roger

Bill,

I'll get to the photos this afternoon. In the meantime, the part #s are:

8064-049  spring

8302-P15  phenolic washers (2)

You can get them from Jeff Kane

-Roger

Here's a photo of the washer arrangement on a pony truck. The inside diameter of the washers is too small to fit on the "hook", so you have to enlarge the holes. I used a Dremel cutting bit and it took about a minute. One washer over the truck, then the spring, then the other washer. Mount on the frame and you're good to go.

Roger

Thank you so much! Looks like what I'd imagined.

Great!  I'm pleased with that arrangement.   And........I got the horn working, so all is good.

Roger

It appears any of the traditional sized GG1's could benefit from that mod.  All I need now is a box of 20 washers.  Thanks, Roger

Bruce

My pleasure.....enjoy it Bruce.

Roger

Len has done a number of repaints over the years for me- really good, really slow. 6-9 months seems about right based on my memory. I have a couple of more things to send him when I get around to it. He also does nice servicing of engines if anyone wants that done.