I really like the new catalog! Does anyone know how long it typically takes for Charles Ro to list the new items. I will be ordering the UP gp7!
I'm glad they did some GP9's. Sad regarding road names; I've got most of those shown.
Steve
That is the same O gauge auto carrier with screens made first in 1990 for the Lionel O gauge line. O gauge operators can buy them and put O gauge trucks on these Auto Carriers with new paint schemes not offered in the Ready-To-Run catalog.
Andrew
Steve, don't forget that is a CGI image of the proposed locomotive. Your mileage may differ! It suggests a swinging pilot too--why on earth???
The only thing I'm likely in on for sure, the add on PE passenger car (who does not love another project you have to fix from the factory - re solder the wires from the trucks to the lights) and the PE reefer.
From there it's hard to be optimistic, I was in on the idea of the GP7 in UP and SF, but the redesigned trucks DO look too tall. Maybe this is just a poor illustration. I might have to wait on this till they are in the market place to see. Also, Mark, unless I missed it, I do not see where the catalog says that it has smoke....
I will get the SF PA set to replace my circa 1997 SF PA set to pull my passenger cars. This is one of the few Flyonel/Gilbert sets I kept when I really started to focus on the scale Highrail stuff.
I don't get Lionel spending the money on new tooling for billboard reefers....was it JUST to compete with MTH/SHS??? I mean, you can't beat what MTH has for detail in that SHS tooling, and most of the SHS stuff is out there to be found. This not bringing a "new" car to the market by any means.
The auto carriers, im like 85% what the F on this one. When I first got into S, and was all happy with the Flyonel Gilbert traditional look, I bought a set of the trailer on spine cars from a LHS, not knowing that Lionel converted them from their O27 line. I put them behind a loco and it was so apparent that they were way to tall to look right. So outta proportion. Then I found out what they had done. I can't help I'm gunna feel the same way with this. The 15% that is left that could be positive is from a recent video of I found on youtube of these O27 cars running on 3 rail track, they did not look that bad...no scale auto carriers for sure but I'm not ready to shut the door on them completely.
I had been thinking about the idea of bailing on S for the past few months, looking at HO. The task of liquidating my S collection is not pleasant, and I don't wanna rush into a decision I would regret later...but this catalog did not help the cause for me.
It seems like the death of S Highrail, at least for old NotInWi...expired when the 57' reefer did. I would love to see it (and the 57') come back from the dead.
For the ones who like the catalog, I'm glad there are things in it to enhance your enjoyment of S.
Ben
Messing with the Gilbert trucks on the GP removes the character.
I was also very hopeful about the "auto carriers." They turned out to be autoracks, but with Barber trucks instead of modern roller bearing trucks. I might overlook the disproportionate O scale > S scale conversion, but using the old trucks would be illegal behind the American Flyer ES44AC and SD70ACe locomotives. Maybe the graphics people made a mistake with pasting old S gauge trucks on an the old O gauge body. (Graphic anomalies may also explain why the Blomberg trucks on the GP7s seemed to be squeezed together too much and misshapen.)
In all fairness....give Lionel credit where it is due, I just downloaded the Bluetooth app from the apple store on my IPhone, I spent about 5 minuets running a northern around from my phone, Awesome!!!!
Ben
What engines does that app work on Ben?
So far just the 4 new northerns. The catalogued docksider set and the new GP7 are advertised as having it.
Ben
Mark, The next paragraph in the catalog also says each locomotive has steam chuffing! Hmmm.
After looking at the catalog and the notes here I plan to contact the person I work with at Lionel for my articles in the S Gaugian and find out if there will really be new trucks on the GP7 and if it will smoke. These catalogs are always done with artists drawings and the wording can often be inaccurate with the final product.
I also want to know if the is a Bluetooth App for Android devices.
If you have other questions you would like me to ask please post them? I plan to contact him Friday afternoon.
YES!! When will we see a Daylight SP 4-8-4???
Also, did they "mess up" the ACG design and put swinging pilots on the GP locos??
David: Those are questions I am not going to ask. I want to clarify what is in the catalog for 2017 not what people want.
I can ask those questions when I interview him at York.
Sorry
NotInWI posted:In all fairness....give Lionel credit where it is due, I just downloaded the Bluetooth app from the apple store on my IPhone, I spent about 5 minuets running a northern around from my phone, Awesome!!!!
Ben
That is really cool! I'll have to try that myself.
Mike
Roundhouse Bill posted:I also want to know if the is a Bluetooth App for Android devices.
On the Notch 6 Podcast Ryan Kunkle said an Android app is on it's way. The Apple App was coming out first and showed up in iTunes this week.
I like the look and layout of the AF catalog. I am surprised they did the PRR PA set in green rather than tuscan but since it is PRR and Legacy I am ordering one. I also will order the UP GP7. I like several of them but will go with the UP. Looking closely at the catalog there is no smoke vent/fill on the body roof but who knows. The GP7 does seem to have operating couplers and should run with the iPhone Bluetooth app, so for under $250 why not get one? Less than what it would cost to have an original GP7 converted to TMCC/Railsounds and that conversion still would not have remote operating couplers. Also will buy the usual Christmas box car for my collection.
There were no new Legacy steam engines but none were expected. Still no Sensor Track for the FasTrack line. Sure glad I made three of my own by cutting up O Gauge Sensor Tracks.
Bill,
When asking about the GP's, the new truck sideframes appear overly tall as opposed to the height of the engine. Bad drawing? Are they diecast or plastic? Also appears to be a new underframe and details.
Rich
Oh, come on Bill, you're no fun!! 
But seriously, the swinging pilot question (asked more judiciously than I asked) is legitimate, as the catalog illustration seems to suggest a swinging pilot. I doubt these locomotives are anywhere near production yet, so it might not be too late to suggest that that is a bad idea. The old design worked just fine. (It would also be simpler to manufacture.)
But seriously, the swinging pilot question (asked more judiciously than I asked) is legitimate, as the catalog illustration seems to suggest a swinging pilot. I doubt these locomotives are anywhere near production yet, so it might not be too late to suggest that that is a bad idea. The old design worked just fine. (It would also be simpler to manufacture.)If I were to guess based on the illustrations (which we know Lionel catalog illustrations are ALWAYS 100% accurate 
,) I would say Lionel's using the Baldwin trucks with EMD Blomberg sideframes adjusted to fit. The old Flyer GP had a cast frame, I think we're going to have a sheet metal frame with a separate one piece fuel tank/air tank casting attached. Truck mounted pilots.
That's my guess, anyway.
Rusty
Also noticed the PA's are illustrated with a different horn configuration. 2 single horns as opposed to the traditional Gilbert 3 horn cluster.
Rich
Bill,
You may want to ignore this question and feel free to do so. The Auto Carriers are slightly too wide to be true "S" scale. Is there an opportunity for them to re-tool the ends that make up the doors and cut the roof narrower so that it would bring the Car into "S" proportions. This would re-use the most costly part of the "O" tooling which is the sides but make this more acceptable for "S" . It would certainly make me buy these if they made that change.
--Rocco--
Rocco, What if retooling them costs you $20 a car, would you still buy one?
Rocco posted:Bill,
You may want to ignore this question and feel free to do so. The Auto Carriers are slightly too wide to be true "S" scale. Is there an opportunity for them to re-tool the ends that make up the doors and cut the roof narrower so that it would bring the Car into "S" proportions. This would re-use the most costly part of the "O" tooling which is the sides but make this more acceptable for "S" . It would certainly make me buy these if they made that change.
--Rocco--
I think this would still require changing at least 60% of the tooling for a modest improvement in S Scale dimensions. Roof, flat car body, end doors and internal deck tooling would all have to be made. The only thing not changed would be the sides.
Of course, this would also probably raise the price from a $75.00 (MSRP) car to around $90.00-$95.00 for something that's still "not quite right."
We'll see how well these cars do, but I suspect that most Flyer guys would rather search (and most scale guys won't touch them) out the old O27 cars cheap on the secondary market and change trucks rather then spend the approximate $57 bucks (Charlie Nassau price) to $75 (retail) per car if they really wanted them.
Rusty
Gp7's are listed on the trainworld web site
A unit train of them probably wouldn't look too bad.
Brendan
I picked up an O gauge autorack at the Amherst Railway train show over the weekend. As Brendan's and Banjoflyer's pictures show, the car looks pretty good for something made so inexpensively. The parts are colored plastic, not painted; the roof and side panels are a single piece pressed onto the frame with bottom tabs similar to American Models' heavyweight passenger car tabs; and the colored supports, end panels, ladders, and doors are press fit into slots. The only metal piece on the model is a large rivet that holds the plastic trucks to the frame bottom. It is very inexpensive construction with inexpensive parts but looks far better than the bill of materials would suggest.
I removed the Lionel trucks and looked for American Models, DPH, or SHS trucks that could replace the O scale trucks; but I found that the large circular bottom support molded in the frame did not allow those trucks to work without having to cut away some of the bottom to allow the wheels to move. The solution was simple: the large bolstered trucks removed from an AF cylindrical hopper to lower it fit with a simple nut/bolt/washer through the reused trucks and the hole left by removal of the Lionel trucks. The hopper trucks sit back from the autorack ends just as on the prototype and lower the car enough to look good. I still have to work out how to fit Kadee couplers that will work on the tighter curves, but the replacement was quick and simple--and got the hopper trucks out of the spare parts box onto the track.
The Lionel booth at Amherst showed the new American Flyer wooden billboard reefers. The paint jobs were as excellent as one would expect from Lionel. The grab irons looked to be molded into the product--it was a but hard to tell because the molding was crisp and sharp--and the bottom is a simple metal plate similar to Gilbert products of the past. The MTH reefers are far superior in their details top to bottom, and the suggested retail price is $5 less. I don't understand how this new, lesser, "me too" offering was a better investment in tooling than the mechanical reefer would have been.
There was also a Docksider on display with a notice that it was a prototype. The locomotive was primer gray with a separately applied black headlight housing, and there seemed to be far more detailing than I remember on previous versions. It may have been booth lighting that highlighted the relief of the Docksider, but it appeared to me to be a far more attractive version than what I have seen in hobby shops.
Chris Lonero had a video of his conversion on another thread I started mine by adding spacers to the bolsters to attach the trucks (Lionel). I haven't drilled the hole yet but it will go where the circle is.
Brendan
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Brendan posted:Chris Lonero had a video of his conversion on another thread I started mine by adding spacers to the bolsters to attach the trucks (Lionel). I haven't drilled the hole yet but it will go where the circle is.
Brendan
That's right about where I put mine. Worked out great!
Would the auto rack that is panted look better than one that is made of plastic in the desired color I wonder.
Ben
Tom Hawley in Michigan has modified one of the older auto carriers for scale operation. He narrowed the car (using the corrugated roof as a guide) and moved the trucks more inboard. As a result, the car is also lowered somewhat. He did this some time ago and may be the car I referred to in an earlier post.
I liberated some of his pictures from the Yahoo S Scale board:
Of course, he loses the operating end doors, but do we really need working doors?
The final result makes for a fairly presentable scale car once one ignores the length. A lot of work though.
Rusty
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Roundhouse Bill asked Rocco, What if retooling them costs you $20 a car, would you still buy one?
I would buy at least 4. Take a look at Rusty's post above this one. Imagine if Lionel did what Tom Hawley did and just tooled the side doors to open. You would have a much better product. Frankly I might be willing to buy 4 of each of the road names. Instead of putting their money into Woodside reefers that we have plenty of they would have gotten a bigger bang for the buck fixing these.
--Rocco--
Hate to say it, but its pretty sad that a person can out do a multi million dollar company by simply cutting and a little resizing to make a half assed product into something really great.
Im sure what tom did was alot of work and not easy, but in the end that final product would have connected to a WAY larger crowd than what Lionel done by being cheap and lazy. Id buy a fleet of those if they looked like Toms!!!!
The thing is: Lionel got their profit on the original purchase from the dealer of Tom's car long ago. They don't get anything more if the original car goes through secondary market sales. Just because someone chops it up and improves it, there's not sufficient motivation for Lionel to retool the car.
Here's a random thought: The "Flyer" auto carriers MSRP at 75 bucks. If they were in the ready to run O gauge catalog this year, they'd probably be 10 bucks less...
Rusty
Rusty thats true. I guess im just saying, could you imagine how much better theyd sell if they did reinvest in new tooling and make something that wayyyy more guys would buy. Something that actually looks the part. I truly believe the the extra tooling would pay for itself in short order.
Its like what Joe Dirt said to that indian guy in the movie..."its not what YOU want, its what the CONSUMER wants"...lol
Lionel has NEVER personally put any adds or questionnaires that im awhere of to see just exactly what the CONSUMER really wants. Maybe the marketing folks at Lionel should send out a questionnaire to its customers to see.
With the exception of some polling done in 2001 (several management changes ago) at the NASG convention and the involvement with DCC compatibility, Lionel has never gone out and actively sought the opinion of S Gaugers/Scalers.
Didn't they mention in Bill's interview that O27 cars on S trucks never really sold well?
Rusty
Marketing Survey?? Lionel?? in the same sentence???? Surely you jest!!
I think their marketing survey consists of making a CGI of an offered item, and if no pre-orders come in, it's not made!
Did they ask anyone if we wanted the GP series to have a more scale truck, or swinging pilots??? They could do a "Survivors" series and make a WP707 (other than the fantasy WP PAs a few years ago, they've made no other WP locos), or even do a high nose one as the WP2001, and then a PA NP190 (Doyle's engine; the only running PA in America at the moment), etc. etc.
I know, one shouldn't question their methods or products because then you're put on their "crazy person" list. Oh Well. . . Since all I want is a Daylight Steamer, or J611 or a Cab-Forward, I'm probably already there.
Marketing Survey?? Lionel?? in the same sentence???? Surely you jest!!
I think their marketing survey consists of making a CGI of an offered item, and if no pre-orders come in, it's not made!
Did they ask anyone if we wanted the GP series to have a more scale truck, or swinging pilots??? They could do a "Survivors" series and make a WP707 (other than the fantasy WP PAs a few years ago, they've made no other WP locos), or even do a high nose one as the WP2001, and then a PA NKP190 (Doyle's engine; the only running PA in America at the moment), etc. etc.
I know, one shouldn't question their methods or products because then you're put on their "crazy person" list. Oh Well. . . Since all I want is a Daylight Steamer, or J611 or a Cab-Forward, I'm probably already there.
Rusty....There is a Ready To Run catalog this year.
Roundhouse Bill posted:Rusty....There is a Ready To Run catalog this year.
There are no enclosed auto carriers in it, though... However, there is one 1980's MPC era open auto carrier for $49.99.
Rusty
