3rd Rail EMD E8/E9 Announced

There will certainly be multiple road numbers per unit.  The actual number of road numbers usually varies based on the number of orders.  For the NH FL9 there were 8 road numbers available while the Amtrak version only had two. 

 

I personally would like to see a NJDOT version in the classic blue & silver scheme with red pinstripes after the Paducah rebuilds in the late 70's.  Those were the locomotives I saw most in my youth.

 

However, I likely order a PRR Tuscan version in 2 rail and some Amtrak ones in 3 Rail. 

Mutiple road numbers are essential! Is there no economical way to offer them? Pop-in numberboards? That can't be a big expense. Even if it means decal sets and apply your own numbers???

 

This is backwards.  If enough reservations are in they will be done, not the other way around.  Not emailing Scott with reservations just because they are not on a web form is no excuse.  There is always the possibility that something will get done that never shows up on the form.

 

The magic number for something to be done is about 24 units (not 24 individual reservations).  With the SD7 demonstrators about 6-8 people ordered both numbers and the rest singles.  It may be a less if the builder will agree to do it because it is an easy or simple design.  Anyone up for E8 demonstrators?  That is not an easy or simple design?

 

Black widow will be black widow and bloody nose will be bloody nose.  When Jonathan does the designs he will research correct numbers and details for each.  If you have specific information on any of this please make sure Jonathan is aware of it.

 

The only thing that will not be done in multiple numbers is something where there are no prototypical multiple numbers, or is just fantasy anyway; like E7Bs.

 

If a livery receives sufficient reservations that does not have dynamic brakes then that livery will be done without dynamic brakes.  That has always been true.  And the same is true for the rooftop air tanks or any other road specific details.

Ed,

Thanks for that post about the Pennsy E8's.  I'll go with a tuscan A-A combo with whiskers.

Norm

This will be my first 3rd rail model missed out on the Lionel legacy prr e8 but this will be worth it.

rdunniii wrote:

 

Black widow will be black widow and bloody nose will be bloody nose.  When Jonathan does the designs he will research correct numbers and details for each.  If you have specific information on any of this please make sure Jonathan is aware of it.

 

 

 

You seem to have missed the point, the website SHOWS a "BLOODY NOSE" paint scheme, but CALLS IT a "BLACK WIDOW". The question was/is which paint scheme is actually going to be PRODUCED.

 

If Sunset produces all three, Daylight (SHOWN and LISTED) Bloody Nose SHOWN, NOT LISTED) and Black Widow (LISTED, NOT SHOWN), I am sure that nobody will mind, but as, is the Southern Pacific Livery description is confusing, in regards to the Bloody Nose / Black Widow paint schemes as to which will be produced.

 

 Hopefully some one from SUNSET will reply with a knowledgeable answer, rather than potential customers just speculating what Sunset will produce.

 

Doug

The announcement simply has a graphic error.  Nothing more nothing less. 

 

Rdunniii's answer is a knowledgeable one as he assists Scott in various roles like several forum members.  What you see in the announcement at this stage is very fluid.  Regardless of the fact that it states "Black Widow" scheme and shows a "Bloody Nose" scheme is neither here nor there at this point.  If enough people are interested in ordering a paint scheme (usually 40 units minimum per scheme but sometimes less) then it will be made.  In that regard Sunset is very different from what you expect from other manufacturers anywhere close to this price point.

 

If there is a strong preference towards any scheme, make you wishes known directly to Scott and follow up with a preorder.  Any paint scheme that is prototypical is possible.  It is highly likely that all three SP versions will run, but again for that to happen they have to get the actual orders.

 

I hope you order a few, you will be stunned at the not only the prototypical accuracy, but the running qualities of these fine models as well.   

 

There will be multiple road numbers.  All of Sunset's diesels are offered in multiple numbers and those numbers correspond back to correct prototypes.

I answered the way I did is because Jonathan and Bob Heil and to a lesser extent several other folks, including me, help Scott keep all this straight and will be the ones to tell him.  He is not an expert on all this decorative minutia (and yes this is minutia in the scope of the entire run of models).  He looks to a broad community of knowledge to keep it straight.  So I am not speculating.  It is also why I responded he is always looking for folks with specific knowledge of any of the multitude of possibilities to contact him or Jonathan directly.

This is definitely a good thread.  I am delighted that you guys are ordering so many variants.

 

Hot Water is correct - I am not a "typical" O Scale Diesel type.  However, I note that we are in 3-rail Scale, not 2–rail, and I further note that if all the above happens, once again 3-rail scale is driving the market for accurate models above the beltline.

 

Somebody please tell me when all these variations have been available for 2-rail brass modelers?

I would be shocked if the 3 rail models outnumber the 2 rail models for the E8s. 3RS is an important demographic for Scott I'm sure, but unless I'm mistaken all of the diesels so far have sold more 2R versions. Key Models made 2R E-units that with all due respect to Scott are nicer models than these will be. Much more expensive of course which opens up a nice niche for Scott to fill.

I have 4 Key E8 units and will probably sell them and replace them with Sunset ones and have a lot of money left over. Plus, the tuscan color on Sunset's PRR units will be much more accurate than the overly brown shaded tuscan on my Key units.

 

Which, STILL leaves the original question unanswered, will the second livery be the Black Widow or the Bloody Nose?

 

I UNDERSTAND, that there was a Graphic/Typographic error made, that was the point of my original post/question, The Daylight was shown and correctly identified, a second livery was shown but mis-identified, which leads a possible customer to assume that only two liveries for SP, will be produced, has Scott decided which two it will be?

 

 It was a SIMPLE Question, to which there have been several replies, without any of them answering the question, Will the second Livery be Black Widow, or Bloody Nose?

 

Doug

He's doing them all IF there are enough orders for them. That's normal practice for Scott.

If you go to the RESERVATION page on the 3rd Rail website, all 3 SP schemes are listed under the E9's

Sunset have informed me that ALL THREE of CP's E8As will be available.

 

Hard on the wallet perhaps, but I'm going to be so impatient!!! I took a picture of #1800 when I was about 11 years old. OK, it's not such a great picture but here it is anyway in glorious 1955'ish B&W along with shots of all three CP E8s taken by others.

Why Lackawanna when it has been made by Weaver and MTH.I would go for a Erie- Lackawanna .Do one road number in even and one odd.If making dummy B-units why not a dummy A-unit

 

 

The circus must be in town... Here comes 3 elephant (style) pulling the CZ!!!

 

 

Folks,

 

We have plenty of time to sort out what people want, which schemes and eras to settle on.

 

I have been struggling with the factory to negotiate pricing for these projects. They have tipping points where one day you are giving one price and if you add just a little too much of something, they recalculate a much higher price. So I don't want to add complexity to an already very complex project. Adding Dummy As and Powered Bs makes our 80 SKUs number project into 160 SKUs. We will make Powered B unit Kits in 2 Rail, since that is where the powered B units seem to be requested the most.

 

The factory is very accommodating with lots of paint schemes, but if production time drags out too long, another price increase will be applied. So all has to be juggled. If we get enough interest in some Roads, we will make them, if we don't, we won't make them.

 

As time goes on, I will update our reservation page with more accurate images and information on each road.

 

In the mean time, we know this is your hobby and want to accommodate your wishes. Don't expect us to know all details of each of the 20 road variations listed. Share your thoughts, enlighten us. It will make for a better model.

 

Scott - China

For the PRR E8 A units, will the DGLE version (I take it that is what "PRRG" on the order form refers to) come in the 5-stripe scheme like the Tuscan one that is shown?

 

Ed, thanks for the reference to the Withers book.

OK, it's got to be me.  I fail to see what is so difficult to understand.  The current listing on the 3rd Rail website is NOT the list of models/variants that will be produced.  It is a preliminary assortment of what MIGHT be produced.  What will be produced are those which receive sufficient reservations REGARDLESS of what is in the current listing.  I.e., if all three SP variants receive sufficient reservations ALL three will be produced.  Contrarily, if none of the SP variants receive sufficient reservations NONE will be produced.

 

As the reservation period progesses variants will be added as email reservations are made of variants not on the list and those that are not receiving reservations in the current listing WILL be dropped. Those email reservations on the bubble due to their small number may or may not be added to the website listing.

 

At some point in time, either because the contracted number of locomotives is reached or it is close enough after some drop dead date the final list will be made.  Models on the bubble at that time will or won't be made depending on the kharma and voodoo of the builder.  These models are each individually finished and decorated just like brass models; they don't use pad printing.  Models that the builder deems either too difficult or expensive to decorate for the small number of reservations will be dropped.  Scott will email everyone who's reservations will not be made at that time with their options.

The DGLE version will be the five stripe scheme and will have simulated gold leaf stripes to match the prototype.  PRR took delivery of their first E8s in 1950 and that was the standard passenger scheme on the railroad and originated on the GG1.  In 1952 PRR changed the standard passenger color for diesels to Tuscan Red with five stripes in "Dulux Gold" - in other words yellow stripes.  PRRG would be the correct reference to DGLE on the order form.  The DGLE reference stands for Dark Green Locomotive Enamel color as it really was closer to black than green.

 

There is another Withers book that focuses on PRR E7 and E8 units and PAs exclusively and has a roster shot of every road number and shows every paint scheme.  It's a wonderful reference book.  Not a lot of color pictures, but a gold mine for detailing based on time period. 

 

 

Yes, but logic and rational thought have never been exceptionally well applied to model RR'ing.

Thank you, Jonathan.

I thought pad printing was the best... ???

Too expensive for the numbers produced.  I believe Atlas requires a minimum of 300 units per pad.  I believe 3rd Rail makes about 75 units max per livery.

Excellent!!!  Southern fans, pick your poison.

Here's an idea, Scott.

 

Since these will be the gold standard for plastic-body E8's, is it possible to put two sound chips in the locomotive?

 

The number of us with first-hand experience with E8's and E9's is shrinking daily, so let me throw this in.  Each E8 had two 12-cylinder EMD diesel engines, the same engine that was in most of the switchers.  They were not connected by a drive shaft, so they rotated and exhausted out of sync with each other, much like the front and rear drivers of an articulated steam engine.  So far, I have not heard an accurate reproduction of this in any O gauge sound system.  A 16-cylinder 567 engine does not sound like a 12-cylinder, and a single 12-cylinder engine does not sound like a pair of them.

 

Maybe this is too much to ask, but, I thought I'd put it out for consideration.

 

 

For PRR fans, the Pennsy never had E8/9 B units.  They bought E8 AA pairs. I have seen pictures of E8s with E7 B units.

Tom,

That is a very cool idea!  Seems like the E8/E9 bodies are long enough to accommodate two speakers and sound cards.   This feature would rival the Vision Line with regard to play value and of course most recognize Scott's engines as the gold standard for fidelity and detail.  I think this would take 3rd rail engines to a whole other level! 

 

I may be in the minority, but I really want highly detailed engines of Scott's caliber with Vision Line features.  It would be the best of both worlds!  

       
       


Most factory finished brass at least since the 1990's including today's (Ajin Train Model now ATM, FM Train, Boo Rim) and likely Scott's system is a elaborate filmless reverse printed sharp laser crisp decal in which the film is removed after application. I could snap a capture of one of the spare sheets in an extra parts box from an older project. Some of our recent projects are now using the fabulous Tampo system. In most all cases the reverse decal and High Tech Tampo system is far better than pad printing. Razor sharp graphics that are as tight as the vector art supplied by the artist.

We imported these L-109's with the Y6's in HO; they were built by Sae Ho at Boo Rim and the finish contractor used Tampo graphics. These HO models sell in excess of $4000 if you can find one.

ATM's fabulous paintwork and decoration is some of the best in the industry. True artwork.

Eric has it.  They use reverse decals.  And hopefully he can further explain it as I don't get it.

 

3rd Rail does not make any electronics so changing the existing electronics is not their balywick.  The QSI in the 2 rail is stereo so it is a possibility to have two of the newer smaller speakers using it's stereo.  The ERR in the 3-rail is not stereo, as far as I know, so that is not possible without a second sound system which will cost $.   

Got a link handy to any information of that system?

This is the way the FTs are done.  The B unit sounds, including the 2nd prime mover, are the stereo.  The decoder is only in the A unit with speakers in both.

Any interest in these Frisco E-8's?   The Frisco only had A units.

 

"Tampo" is pad printing.  One and the same. 

 

Here is a brief description...

Tampography

Tampography, also called pad printing or sometimes tampo printing, combines rubber stamping and offset printing.  The desired image is etched into a metal plate.  This plate, also known as a cliché, has the image lines sunken into its surface.  They are said to be in negative relief.  Ink is deposited into these lines; the excess wiped away, and then a rubber pad or tampon is pressed against the plate to pick up the image.  The pad is then pressed against the surface to be decorated, leaving the image behind.

 

This is the website...

 

Tampo Link

 

Here's another...a bit more info to 'peruse at your leisure'....(Strange....I've never heard this common phrase alternately as 'peruse at your most harried moment' )...

 

Pad Link

 

FWIW, always....

 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

 

KD (My use of the smiley face has been disparaged in another thread...maybe this will be more acceptable?)

 

 

 

From the Rapido Trains YouTube channel...

 

Oh yes!!!

Now these guys produce some phenomenal models in HO and N guage,check out there website to see  there products.