6 axle disappointment

I share your pain.  MTH made the 3 axle trucks that way so that the engine could operate on O-31 curves.  Yours are bigger, so I offer you this simple solution.  I solved it and you can too.  

 

This link is closer than you think.  You can ignore the pictures, but PLEASE read the text.

 

Click on it.

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/closing-the-g-a-p

Many of the early Premier six axle diesels with only the middle and outer axles driven have now been demoted to the Scale King line.  Recently tooled Premier six axle diesels that are made in both 2 and 3 rail versions have all wheel drive.

 

What locomotive do you have?

All the earlier truck blocks had pretty much incorrect axle spacing.  I suspect that newer all geared truck blocks with replaceable wheel sets are being made with correct wheelbases.  From another thread, I would guess that they have yet to upgrade the PA.

From another thread, I would guess that they have yet to upgrade the PA

 

Correct.  There are no two rail versions of the PA so the old trucks are still in use.

I have no 6 axle Diesels...I considered one, but the truck appearance
Disappointed me, so I did not buy it

PLASTIC WHEELS?!?!?!  Does Lionel do this?  All of my current diesels are 4-wheel except the two E7s (WBB and 3rd Rail), but I was thinking of getting a Lionel C420 in SAL paint.  I don't think MTH offers a C420 and if they did I wouldn't buy it if it had plastic blind drivers, how cheap

 

I did see SantaFe Jim's post about changing them out with metal drivers so at least there's a fix.

 

The blind (flangeless) wheels are plastic to avoid shorting on switches as they swing outside of the railhead. In this case, plastic is good.

 

Jim

Im with you!! I was looking at some Williams six axle units. They have a rear blind driver in plastic also to run on O31 curves. I think it would look aukward to run a six axle unit on O31. And I didn't like the blind drivers and I didn't like the plastic. Although these Williams units were much cheaper than MTH. Only about $100 each.

These are Weaver E8 trucks that eventual were sold to MTH for their E8 model.  The middle axle is blind (Flange-less) but powered. Note the axle that is non-powered.

There are other Weaver 3 axle trucks where the two flanged sets are together and the end set is blind.  I have a set of Weaver C630 that have this configuration. One has metal blind wheels, the other plastic.  Surprisingly even on the straights this open ended truck flops around enough to cause shorts.
Weaver C630 (3) axle truck.  The Alco Asymmetrical truck doesn't help. More slop to move around, both the pick-up and blind set of wheels will short.  My layout is limited to O54.  We had trouble with these models on the Fort Pitt High Rail layout shorting on the straights.

These truck were offered with metal and later the plastic blind axle pair (pictured). My other C 630 has the metal wheels blind axle.   The plastic axle pair helps the problem but doesn't correct all of it.

Yep, Lionel does this as well on the earlier PA releases. Drives me nuts!

Unfortunately they chose the most inboard axle wheel set to be blind, so as it travels around a radii it looks very awkward.

I have not found a wheel set to replace it yet...

 

J Daddy,  Here is my solution.    https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/closing-the-g-a-p

 

I dislike the 3-axle trucks with the blind 3rd axle, because the trucks look odd on

many curves, even 072. The plastic idler/dummy wheels are just fine, though.

I don't get the objection. They work better, electrically. It's the truck's architecture that bothers me.

 

The esthetically correct way to build the truck is to put the blind wheel, if any, in the center and the pivot in the correct place. 

 

Somewhere, I have an early PS1 SD40 (as I recall) with metal dummy 3rd axle wheels,

and it will short sometimes.

 

 

Yep, Lionel does this as well on the earlier PA releases.

 

But they did correct it on the latest PA's didn't they?  I bought a Legacy B unit and modified it to power a 90's D&RGW set of PA's.  I think I remember that I was surprised that all wheels had flanges.  I'd have to go down and look to be sure.

 

 

Good to know I am not the only one....so I guess 4 axle is all I will run...

1drummer

 

Now why wouldn't you want to run six axle diesels like this?  They have only been on the market for about 8 years now. 

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/news/284

 

The Premier Line SD70m diesel engine, first cataloged in the 2005 Volume 2 Catalog, was not promoted with the Proto-Scale 3-2ﾙ feature which did not begin appearing in M.T.H.'s diesel lineup until the 2006 Volume 1 catalog. The SD70m and several other diesel engines promoted in the 2005 Volume 2 catalog were promoted with new wheel arrangements that placed flanged wheel sets on the outside of each truck block. Previously, M.T.H. had configured its six-wheel diesel truck blocks with flanged wheels on the middle and leading axles.

Because the outside flanged wheel locations required an entirely new power truck block, M.T.H. decided to incorporate the new Proto-Scale 3-2ﾙ feature into the Premier Line diesel locomotives equipped with six-wheel trucks and promoted in the 2005 Volume 2 catalog. Unfortunately this decision resulted in production delays of the SD70m, SD50 and SD70ACe diesel locomotives while the diesel version development of Proto-Scale 3-2ﾙ was completed. Both the SD50 and the SD70ACe have exited production and will begin delivering to consumers this Fall.

 

http://www.toytrainsontracks.com/index.html

 

The Dash-8s, Dash-9s, ES-44s, SD45s and Trainmasters also have all six axles powered.

Good morning

I passed on a few MTH diesels because they still all don't have those nice 2/3 rail trucks.

I have large curves so I put a 2 rail center drive wheel in there or press on flanged wheels.

 

Clem k 

6axle trucks are main line engines, at least to me...which means 42r or larger turnouts and curves...for the average price of $400 an engine, I think Ole mikey ought to give me the option of wheels I use...as part of purchase, let me make the decision...

Also, the "its always been that way for years" mentality of acceptance irks me..
Change is the key to longevity, and usually for the GOOD..some changes are done willingly, and with foresight, like STANDARDS FOR DCC...others are done with a little persuasion, and chicanery, like the 13th ammendment, seat belt laws, and smoke free restaurants.  Then there is DCS and LEGACY...now we can add blind wheels..

As the consumer, My "I WANT WHAT I WANT BECAUSE ITS MY MONEY" dander gets up pretty quick...and while I can admire 6 axle Diesels I will not buy them, unless I am appeased...I know my one little train budget will not even blip on mth's radar...
And they will benefit from my purchases of 4 axle Diesels...but my PRINCIPLES and STANDARDS will remain uncompromised....and some day, maybe...change will happen and mth will see they are better for it...I know it will be better for me...

I dislike the blind plastic wheel as well. If I back an engine into a siding (over an Atlas O-72 switch), the plastic wheels have a tendency to drop over the railhead, stop the engine, and cause a derailment. Not all the time, but maybe 50/50. No more blind plastic wheels for me.

 

That is what made me pass on the latest EP-5.

 

 

I have to agree with Ron.  My MTH ABA Southern E-6 (20-2791-1 fm 2007), PA (20-2968-1 fm 2009), and E-8 (20-20051-1 fm 2010) all derail in switches.  All have the blind inner axle.  Tether adjustments couldn't correct the problem either.  Not a rant, just a recurring issue which influences my purchase decisions since 2010.

 

 

Similarly, this issue made me pass on the desirable MTH 2014 v2 Southern Pacific E-8 ABA because the catalog says "Operates on O-31 curves".  That says to me the inner axle remains blind and I would have the same issue as with my other ABAs.  This big diesels should have the modern 6-wheel flange-blind-flange arrangement. However, you can tell from the picture this would require a redesign of the EMD/ALCO model pilot for drive gears to the inner axle.  The good news too could be that we'd have dual pick-ups on each pilot.  Design improvement vs. Return on Investment drives the question I suppose.  

 

Mike CT's comment about Weaver E-8 trucks being sold to MTH for its E-8 model is interesting.  Can anyone confirm that for MTH E-8s post-2010?  I can't see that and still claim O-31 curves.

 

As Ted Hikel points out: "The Dash-8s, Dash-9s, ES-44s, SD45s and Trainmasters also have all six axles powered." 

 

Why not the six-axle EMD's and ALCO's?

 

Cheers

Bryan

Hi Bryan-

 

I've had a very similar experience with my 2011 MTH UP E8 set 20-20186-1 and 20-20186-3. They derail on switches and drive like crabs down the track. They also have the plastic flangeless inner wheels.

 

Has anyone tried to replace the inner flangeless plastic wheels with metal flanged wheels? I would like to do this on my set.