A Public Service Message for the Forum Sponsors

I would love to know what your MTH item was.

I know web sites are a must in this day and age but if it is lousy then I would call them.

It was a MTH Dolphins engine. The one they used to beat the Patriots in Miami. Even Mike Wolf witnessed that win for his team. LOL!!!

As fo one of the forum sponsors it would be nice to know if we have a problem with our site. 

 I am shore that others' would want to know as well If there was a problem.

 Any more that is more than half the business.

It had save our store from closing.

  In put is very important in keeping an open link with our COSTUMERS.  

 

I agree...I'd let them know there were issues.

-Greg

 Amen.  

 

And the sponsors aren't the only ones.  Almost every business has this problem and some of the biggest companies are the worst

It is rather astonishing how "clunky" a lot of the hobby/train websites are to navigate.

I agree as well. We recently started accepting PayPal through our train store site and had an issue with our website working properly with PayPal.  While working to resolve the issue with our web host and PayPal we lost the sale. I would assume to frustration of failed attempts. It has since been resolved but if not for the customer initially contacting us it could have gone on longer with more lost sales.

The same goes for those that have a problem with any product or service. If you don't contact the source. They can't fix what they don't know is broke.

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with SJC's original post.

 

When we started doing our digital publication, I had to check every one of our advertiser's web links to be sure we got them correct in the digital mag. I continue to do that, just to be sure our web addresses are still current. I am appalled to see how many truly BAD web sites are out there in this industry.

 

In this day and age, if your web site does not have a functioning web store where people can actually make a purchase, you are wasting your money. "Brochure" sites are a thing of the past now. If your site is not interactive and set up so people can actually purchase what you are selling with a few clicks of the mouse, you might as well not have a web site.

 

One thing I saw over and over again that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

1. Open up a hobby shop web site.
2. The home page has all the major players logos on it...Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc.
3. Clicking on those logos takes you to that manufacturers web site!

Why would you bring someone to your site, and then send them somewhere else, right from your opening page? You are in effect, welcoming customers in the front door and ushering them right out your back door, without SELLING them anything! Again, you are wasting your money if this is what your site does.

 

There are many things in this hobby that are do-it-yourself projects. Building a good, functional web site is NOT one of them! If there was ever an area of your business where you should spend the money to hire a professional, this is it. This is why we recently moved our web store to an Amazon-based site. Tremendous support, easy to maintain and the easiest check-out process on the web.

 

Thanks for bringing this subject to the forum, SJC. I've been meaning to get into this, but had not done it yet.

Chipset thank you for the info.

Things  like this will help us to make changes for the better. 

 

 

No problem!

Glad to help!

Also, just some clarification, I understand that when you are in the Online Store, it brings you back Home to the Online Stores home page, that is fine, but then there is no way to get back to your main website.

Some may not like my opinion on this subject I'm about to post about but so be it. It is the way I see it as a customer - if the store's website is hard to navigate or isn't working properly, whatever, unless they are the only ones out there that have the item, I won't call them. Why? The rare times I order online, I almost always do so because of the convenience. Get in, get out. Done. Also, I usually don't order at "normal" business times. All I want to do is place my order and go on with my life. It is not my job as the customer to patrol the stores websites and help those find and fix flaws. I don't go to Amazon or whatever and do it nor would I do it for a train store. That is the job of the business. Checking yourself, having the IT guy check, whatever can be the make or break a sale. If the opportunity to mention it to the store arises, I do. 

 

A quick example, not related to a model train store but the business approach/sales ideas are the same. When I was involved with the local park railroad (2 foot gauge miniature train running excursions on about a mile of track), I had some influence over the website and was the sole manager of the social media (Facebook account). I also had access to data such as "How did you, the customer, learn about us", etc via comment cards, surveys, and by simply talking to the passengers and people, my favorite thing to do. The overwhelming majority who didn't know of us already via word of mouth or just by hearing the whistle, learned about us via the internet and/or our website/Facebook page. Once I learned how to properly operate a business Facebook page and we tweaked our website accordingly, I and others were AMAZED at how much of an impact that simple yet effective website and social media page made on the operation and on the $$$ in the bank. In fact, that simple attention to the online presence and increased ridership/attraction helped the railroad purchase a BRAND NEW $200K locomotive earlier this year. Will a GOOD website for a toy train store bring in an extra $200K, I doubt it. However, the message of the IMPORTANCE of a strong website AND social media page, I hope is clear. 

I sent a suggestion to MTH to make their dealer search by State and Location, instead of the current zip code search.  When I travel and have the time.  I like to check to see if there is a train store along the route.  It doesn't help if you don't know the zip code.

Here is my pet peeve:

 

Many online stores, particularly parts dealers, no longer offer the customer an option to view a list of parts (items) in numerical order. Every part is pictured. So, instead of being able to scan through many items on a single web page, it takes endless clicks to see what is available. I don't need to see a picture of an e-unit drum or a side rod.

Great subject, SJC...I'm glad you brought it up!  I work with retailers and their websites every day.  Doesn't matter what you're selling, the basic principles still apply.

So many great points have already been made in this thread by SJC, Rich and other posters.  If I had to give one bit of advice it would be this...

Retailers, look at your website from a customer's point of view.  In other words, actually take the time to "search and shop" for something on your OWN website.  If for some reason you're not an experienced web shopper, I suggest you become one!  In the meantime, ask someone to do this for you.

How was that experience?  Still not sure?  Fine, try doing the same thing on your competitors' websites, especially those known to have good ones.  Now compare your experiences.  Trust me, it won't take all that long to identify the major flaws/weaknesses in your site...this could very well be the best and most productive time you've ever spent!

I agree wholeheartedly with Rich.  If you don't want to spend the time and/or money to have an easy-to-use, fully-functional website where customers can actually BUY something from you, then don't bother having a website at all.

JoeyA ,

Right on the money, exactly what I was going to say

 

My pet peeve is you fill out everything, click place order and THEN find out it is out of stock or receive conformation email with it listed as out of stock.

 

If I can't buy one item with four clicks of my mouse, you lost the sale.

1. place item in cart

2. shipping info

3. payment info

4. place order

 

My work hours are DIFFERENT everyday, it could be 2am when I search YOUR website for something.

 

If it is hard to navigate or I have to go thru EVERY page of a brand, I move on. I keep my 3 rail engines buying to mostly WBB, the websites I hate for this is patricks trains & mario's trains. The best website to navigate for WBB is trainworld, they have everything broken down.

 

Just my two cents.

Something that I have preached to my clients for a long time. Today, it is a must if a retailer wants to maximize their sales.

In Lionel's defence, I'd like to point out the large orange block at the far end of the web site menu bar labeled "LionelStore.com". This is where you go if you're intended to purchase something direct from Lionel.

 

To the blocks to the left is one labeled "Products". It has a drop down that will take you to a "Find a Product" page. This page is for finding historical information on a product, such as price, features, last cataloged, etc. Not for making purchases.

 

Personally, I wish Lionel would make the distinction clearer. When "Tom's Train Station" was still open, they'd get e-mails all the time from people trying to buy something off the "Product Finder" page that were last cataloged in 2005.

 

 

SJC,

 

If it was my site, I would like you to know that my new site is currently being constructed and will be up and running in about two months.  Without going into detail about my current site, lets just say 'It is hard to find a competent site designer'

 

I hope you found the product you were looking for.

 

Dave

 

so glad someone finally 'spoke up' and gave a definite 'why' on this website delima.

Many of us have never had proper instruction when ordering from online and it has been my observation that the larger websites (Amazon; L.L.Bean; B & N, etc) are much more 

customer friendly. Having written that, I do understand that the small business man may

not have enough experience or the funding to do so. That is until they work with what they have and tweak their engine. Personally, I remember what a travail we had when our

company (DuPont) changed to using SAP. It took years and many $$'s lost before we succeeded.

i always try to give those in our hobby the 'benefit of the doubt' cause after all, this internet, web-based, WI-Fi thing is still in the early stages.

Try to be patient if possible and learn from what our forum members have suggested so

that your next trip to the 'Web Store' will keep you coming back.

While lots of good points have been made here, we should also keep in mind that upgrading an e-commerce website is a bit like refueling a jet airliner while it's cruising along at 550 mph at 32,000 ft.  These shops have a business to run, and building websites with features like Amazon.com and LL Bean websites, etc... cost big $$$ to build and maintain.  Not saying it's impossible -- just that it won't happen overnight while business needs are being tended to.

 

We have the luxury of sitting back wanting all the cool features everywhere, because that's just human nature.  The dealers have their own set of priorities based on what's going on in their business at the moment.  As with all things in life, it's a delicate balance.

 

It would sure be terrific if most of the big dealers had complete, real-time web stores with updated inventory tied into what's happening at the brick-and-mortar store.   Would definitely make our lives easier, when we're searching for that special item.     But we probably wouldn't want to know all the $$$ that would need to be spent to get that type of a system.  Just sayin...

 

So I try to take this web stuff in stride.  Do train shops need to get beyond the basic web presence of a 5-page website that just lists the companies whose products they carry?  Absolutely!  Do they all need an amazon.com website.  Probably not.  

 

The telephone still works for me.  I just called a hobby shop in Michigan last week looking for an MTH item that's already getting tough to find at the usual big dealers.  They had it.  i purchased it.  We both were happy.

 

I had previously called a small shop in Rhode Island.  Left a message on the shop's answering machine (which isn't a good sign to begin with)... and I still haven't received a call back!    So I'm thinking... Some of these places can't even return phone calls, and we're expecting them to have real-time inventory websites?   Not gonna happen.

 

Much better to control the controllables in life.  A train store website is not one of them.   Just keeping it real here.

 

David

David,

 

Syncing the site to POS is key.  This is something my new site will do.  I apologize for any inconvenience.  A fix is on the way.  Thank you for your understanding.

 

Dave

If you want a product bad enough, you'll find a way to get it, website or not. I understand that most people want the shopping process to be as seamless as possible but if I can't place an order via the website I'll either call or email the business.

A fellow modeler and I do a search for train shops in every location that we travel to. I like to see an item before I buy it. There are a lot of online shops identified that are now out of business. How the web handles defunct and outdated accounts is still a mystery to us...

I suspect some of this is old web addresses that have migrated to a new location, and there is no "forward/redirection" to the new site/address from the old site.

Many of these old sites and locations still show up in a Google search.

So, if your old site and physical address still shows up in a Google search, shut it down or, if that is not possible, program in a redirection to your new website and location!!

So this is just a footnote to the magic of locating a website and being unable to  navigate it.

At least three repliers in this thread have said "just pick up the phone" if you have problems with the dealer website.

 

That's archaic thinking.  In this day of the internet, people are accustomed to shopping often at odd hours.  People purchase stuff before going to bed, when they are insomnic at 3am.  Early in the morning before they go to work.  A lot of hobby shops are closed on Sunday and/or Monday.  

 

Websites like amazon.com have changed the game and conditioned all of us to expect to shop whenever we want to, not 10am-5pm Tues-Sunday.  Ignore this and you WILL lose business.

I also have had issues with websites being hard to navigate, send you to the manufacture's website when you click on the manufacturer's logo (what in the world are they thinking!), click to enlarge button superfluous (it almost seems as if it got smaller), no way to narrow search (a few still are guilty of this) and no wish list. These are some of my biggest complaints. Some of these should be easy fixes while others might need some professional help. If the web is the store's biggest income producer then it is a no-brainer to make their web page the best that it can be.

There are far too many shops where their web sites are useless. Once I reach one of them I just bypass it. No need to waste my time in this day and age. 

 

One great site is Modeltrainstuff , easy to navigate and they can tell you how much of a item they have in stock. That is a great feature that most shops should have.

 

Another great shop is Nassau Hobby. 

 

Some of the worst shops are some of the Largest, no excuse for that. 

my pet peeve is when the page lists 10 or 20 items a page and you have to click many pages to get to the end.   I like pages that have an ALL key so I can list everything on one page.

 

and I like when my order ships I get an email.

 

I purchased the DVD Listen For the Whistle from Fort Wayne Railroad (great video by the way) it showed but I never knew when it shipped.

Sidetrack Hobbies -- a forum sponsor and one of my favorite train dealers -- has one of the WORST web sites in the history of e-Commerce.

 

I've mentioned it to them.

You mean like the recent Nassau launch?  Yep, it's not as simple or as cheap to do a significant eCommerce site as most here would like to believe.  A large website with the provision to track inventory and all the other things that have been mentioned is going to cost some significant money!  I think you'd be staggered if you could actually find out what Amazon or similar retailers had spent on their eCommerce outlets!

 

Remember, our efficient government spend almost one billion dollars to try to launch the healthcare website, and they're still trying to get it right!

 

Yep, in my opinion the best in the train business (Model Train Stuff, aka M.B. Klein). The real-time inventory is  fantastic.

I agree this is true, but many times with a computer you can test something until you think there is not one more possible thing to test. Then someone comes by and in 2 seconds clicks on one thing and it all goes bad. You say, gee, I never thought of doing that? Different people use things in different ways, many we might not even think of while making a website.

 

All I am saying is sometimes things are tested and a bug can still get through. If someone does not tell them about it it could be a LONG time before it is discovered. It would be very helpful to notify someone when there is a problem. A phone call would be nice, but if after hours or you don't want to waste the time just a quick email or something to let them know.

 

The same thing happens with our trains, upgrades to the Legacy and DCS software, the trains themselves, etc. They test and test and test and then the first user finds a problem with the first start up and use of the item. It happens, and if they don't know about it they can't fix it.

       

       
With all due respects, that is such hyperbole.  And I'm being as polite as I can here.

Look... We'd all love to do our one-click shopping wherever we happen to visit on the web.  But you're comparing apples and oranges here.  Amazon is in the business of moving as much stuff as they can.  And when they're sold out, they order more.

Haven't you heard about BTO?  We're a niche market on the best if days, and shops have only so much inventory.  I called a shop the other day for an MTH item, and they actually sent me looking elsewhere 'cause they had already sold their items they pre-ordered for customers.  So do you really think these kinds of businesses are gonna upgrade their websites overnight to something like Amazon's?

I may be old-school, but I still like the phone... still know how to talk on the phone (unlike some folks who dribble over keyboards and text on iPhones all day long).... and I find communicating by phone (the old fashioned way) to still be highly productive.   

Are these fancy web sites nice?  Definitely.  Am I expecting train shops to run out and upgrade their site 'cause if what they may read here.  I don't think so.  They'll do it when's time and funds permit the investment.  Meanwhile, some are running highly successful businesses without one-click shopping, because they understand their business model and their customers buying habits.

If we think a business is going to be a smashing success solely because of a fancy website, we're sadly mistaken.

David

       
       
And ironically, Al and Libby are two of the nicest shop owners around.  I also love talking to Jim and Dottie whenever I call.  The website has it's awkward quirks, but their professionalism and good-natured ways have won my business for years.

David

My LHS's website is horrible, in fact it's so bad that on two occasions of visiting the place I offered to help them build a new site - both times they looked at me like I had two heads.  And yes, I think their site even has the infamous links to other websites (Lionel, MTH, etc.) as mentioned earlier.

 

The site does have an Lionel inventory list, but it's not accurate at all, and there is zero "shopping cart" features.  At a minimum they could create a Google Spreadsheet with their inventory list (or a list of specials) and a simple HTML file that embeds the spreadsheet in it.  I can't imagine it's very fun updating the current HTML file they have, but updating a Google spreadsheet is super easy.

 

The other thing that kills me is the fact that they are still using an old-school cash register.  While being non-technical is charming, they have no way of knowing what inventory they have on the shelf, without walking over to the shelf.

 

I'm sure it takes a lot of discipline and hard work to embrace these technologies (inventory management and web shopping carts), I'm just surprised the folks who do not can actually stay in business and thrive.

 

p.s.  I purchased an item from the store at least 2-3 months ago and it's still on their website's inventory list...