All engines the same?

AAR "standard controller mechanism" and uniform cab designs went into effect in 1972. Even those darned "desk top controllers" where standard between EMD and GE, until the railroad unions objected enough so that the manufacturers stopped offering them.

GE brought in several groups of enginemen, helpers, etc. whose names were provided by the Unions, and they went over the cab mockup (a full size cab with all controls, desktops, etc.) early in the design phase for the GE desktop controller. We also had a GE B40 that did some barnstorming with the first cab with the window design that some of these people complained about, so we changed it. The input of these people was important and they had a hand in the final design, not only of the overall cab, but "each and every" control, where it was located, its dimensions, etc. Once we built some prototypes, they were invited back and they ALL liked it. They did make some minor recommendations re the cab and we made those changes as well.

So a few years later and "all of a sudden", no one likes the desktop controller! What should we have done differently? GE did "everything that we possibly could" to get this right, and that is the bottom line.....

After this fiasco, I reluctantly concluded that "this was a moving target", and not always in the forward direction either.......

We went through the same circus at EMD. The real problem was, all of the people that came in to "help design" the desk top controller, after having seen and sat in the Canadian cab unit, were Union Officials. In other words, none of the "Union Officials" had actually been in the cabs of operating diesel units in many years! They war all "arm chair railroaders" and really had no clue what day-to-day Engineers REAL experience. 

That is why the stupid desk top controllers were such a disaster on the U.S railroads. My best friend, Engineer Doyle McCormack summed it up beautifully; "Think about sitting at a diner table for 11 hours!".

Exactly!!! You can't stretch your legs out like you can with a conventional control stand. Desktops SUCK...BIG TIME!!!

How comfortable to operate are/were modern steam locomotive controls?

Remember, these desk controls were designed by highly trained college educated engineers using the latest physio charts and measurements to design the most ergonomically correct configuration for your comfort.  They of course only had to sit there an hour or so, then declare it fit for human consumption.  I mean who are you, lowly RR engineers who have to sit 12+ uncomfortable hours, to question the grand poobahs of correctness (their charts and computer simulations after all, say they are correct)!

As comfortable as the seatbox was.

Rusty

Exactly! Except for the seatbox, NOTHING is "comfortable" about running & firing a steam locomotive.  

Um...sometimes there is no seat box--you have to stand. And you don't realize--until the end of the day when you try to get out of your car and you can't move--that your body muscles were constantly getting a workout as they tried to keep you stable against the constant rocking and rolling of the engine down the track. Couple that with 150 degree temperatures in the summer, and the word "comfortable" really doesn't enter the conversation (I had to put a candy thermometer in the cab, because regular thermometers top out at 120).

C'mon, admit it.  It's nice getting off a steam locomotive on a 95 degree day in order to cool off...

Rusty

That's very true!

Steve,

Can't you put a fold down seat mounted to the side of the cab or boiler in there?

In the cab of a diesel, there is only so much "real estate". GE and I am sure that EMD both had people whose science was human factors, body positioning, etc. So I am sure that both builders "did the best that they could do" with the space they had to work with. I think it was easier to send seven astronauts to the space station than it is to get three humans over a 200 mile Division in a machine "with no steering wheel" in relative comfort. I believe that GE was told by the RR's to work through the unions to get the right people, so we had little choice. And of course there was (is?) the AAR/FRA "clean cab" committee, with their requirements. And we had to comply with OSHA. And of course railroad mechanical and purchasing was involved. So don't blame the "highly educated engineers".....

There is a lot of "fold down" stuff...the jump seat, the wash basin, etc. due to space and bump protection requirements.

During the early Dash 8 days, we were told to add a 3rd display screen at the helpers station to "give him information but restrict his options re operation", even though he never had this info before. This involved a lot of software to deny him the option to access certain menu items that are the engineer's responsibility. There were (are?) two screens in front of the engineer, and the displays could be switched if one screen failed. During the rollout, one Conrail train stopped on the mainline on Christmas eve, and the engineer did not know what to do so he put his boot through the screen. Then Conrail told us they wanted it replaced under warranty....

Well, you know how that ended up....

As soon as the warranties ran out and the railroads became responsible for the cost of the displays, all of a sudden we only had to install one!

I have stories about air conditioning and cab radios too, but this forum is probably not the place for them.

Nope--there really isn't any room.

Our 1873 Mason 0-6-4T has fold down seats mounted to the cab wall under the window, but because you're sitting next to the firebox they're really too narrow to be useful (and I'm a thin guy).  Not to mention, it's a pain to get between the fire door behind you and the injector valves that are mounted near the front wall of the cab.  I do use it to rest occasionally, but most of the time I fold it down and stand all day.

Ya know, I did not even know that the desk top setup was not made anymore. There are so many on the road. I thought they were OK, but not for 12 hours when over half of those 12 hours was just sitting still doing nothing.

It is amazing to me how many options the brake valves had. BNSF units>set the automatic brake and lift up a little ring on the auto  handle or independent brake valve handle to bail off the independent, UP units>set the auto and push the independent brake handle to the side to bail off the independent brakes.

BNSF cabs are a bit nicer than UP.

I remember when the GE 809, first wide cab came by for evaluation by engineers in St. Louis. It sure was weird then.  Dan

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