Asking for help identifying post war O gauge train set

JOHN1361,

     You are pretty much on target, your 9659 is a Sear's set from 1958. Greenberg's Guide, Volume 4, Uncatalogued Sets makes reference to your set on pages 30-31. Retail before any discount was $59.95. There are also Sears catalog reprints available, also you will find information via the internet, enjoy your search and your nice 665 train set.

What a nice set!

I will look for it my my Sears catalog book and see if I can find a catalog picture.

Peter

I checked my 1958 Sears Wishbook and 9659 is not listed. I wonder if they sold trains in their regular catalog?

Frank 

I looked in my Sears catalog train pages 1958 and no pic, sorry. I looked in 57 and 59, too.

3444 limits earliest date to 57. But, the Allis Chalmers makes it earliest 58.

Peter

I found a 9659 set in the 1954 Wishbook, it was a 027 set though. I wonder if this the right set box for this set?

franktrain 

I do not doubt what others have found with that particular number set, but the one common thing found with the 9000 series numbers are found in the 1960's Promotional sets.  From Schmidt's guide book, the numbers 9650-9658 are listed, then it jumps into the 9700 series.  The 665 locomotive was offered 1954 to 1956, and was revived in 1966, which puts it into the Promotional series of issues.  For my two cents, it appears that you may have an "Undocumented Uncataloged" set, from the 1960's, more specifically around 1966.  Take it for what it's worth, and consider you have a rare set.

Looking at the freight car numbers in the post war listing in Greenberg's price guide of 2016 and the years for the cars are from 6 different years(1953 to 61) according to the Greenberg's post war section. Have not gone to the set info area yet.

However it could be an uncatalogued set not covered by Greenberg's guide.

Lee Fritz

wtjohn posted:

JOHN1361,

     You are pretty much on target, your 9659 is a Sear's set from 1958. Greenberg's Guide, Volume 4, Uncatalogued Sets makes reference to your set on pages 30-31. Retail before any discount was $59.95. There are also Sears catalog reprints available, also you will find information via the internet, enjoy your search and your nice 665 train set.

 

Where do you find the Greenberg's volume 4 price guide? 

I have the Greenberg's 2016 Lionel Trains pocket price guide. Is there a different guide book?

Lee Fritz

Thank you, everyone, for the responses. I have been looking for a while with no luck. My friend, GG1MAN (from this forum) brought one of his books into work the other day, & while I was able to find individual unit information, I could not find it under "sets". We were thinking that it was purchased from Sears, as my parents shopped there frequently when I was a child. Can anyone take a guess at the estimated value of the set? Some of the boxes are missing end flaps, and the outer box has a few tears. I have the "Lionel" paper that the locomotive is wrapped in, and all instruction papers from the set.

An undocumented, uncatalog set price would be hard to gauge.....however, looking at the set picture, and I qualify this because I am looking from high above the landscape, so to speak, the stuff appears in nice shape.....an Allis Chalmers car with it's generator attachments and a 6801 flat with boat with all the attachment hardware and boxes would command very good to excellent prices. The 6464 car is not a common one. Hard to say exactly, but you have a NICE set, with popular operating cars, to boot...I would say the value to all the cars plus some unkown percentage for being altogether.

...and, I know, I'm not being very helpful, I'm just speculating, sorry......I would be interested in what others think......

Peter

phillyreading posted:

wtjohn posted:

JOHN1361,

     You are pretty much on target, your 9659 is a Sear's set from 1958. Greenberg's Guide, Volume 4, Uncatalogued Sets makes reference to your set on pages 30-31. Retail before any discount was $59.95. There are also Sears catalog reprints available, also you will find information via the internet, enjoy your search and your nice 665 train set.

 

Where do you find the Greenberg's volume 4 price guide? 

I have the Greenberg's 2016 Lionel Trains pocket price guide. Is there a different guide book?

Lee Fritz

Lee,

     Several years ago, Greenberg did a series of Lionel reference guides, Volume IV of this series deals with uncatalogued sets (Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc...). The books are readily available at most train shows, in new or used condition, or on Ebay. If you like postwar Lionel outfits, these guidebooks are a must have, enjoy the hobby.

TeleDoc posted:

I do not doubt what others have found with that particular number set, but the one common thing found with the 9000 series numbers are found in the 1960's Promotional sets.  From Schmidt's guide book, the numbers 9650-9658 are listed, then it jumps into the 9700 series.  The 665 locomotive was offered 1954 to 1956, and was revived in 1966, which puts it into the Promotional series of issues.  For my two cents, it appears that you may have an "Undocumented Uncataloged" set, from the 1960's, more specifically around 1966.  Take it for what it's worth, and consider you have a rare set.

The 665 was also offered in sets through 1959, my 2503WS Super O 665 outfit is an example from 1958. The basket weave design on the 9659 set box offers another strong clue when this outfit was offered for sale, in addition to the rolling  stock and boxes that came with this particular train set, enjoy the hobby.

The only car that seems out of place for a mid-60s promo/uncatalogued set is the #3444 Cop 'n Hobo car, but it might have been included as a sub or maybe to help sell off remaining inventory. Regardless, it's a nice, quality set of the calibre seldom seen for uncatalogued sets. I would hold onto it until receiving exact info. and maybe stash it for a family member who could appreciate the subtlety and expense of the gift without trying to turn it into the newest iPhone...

Thank you for the information gentlemen. I will try to locate the Greenberg book at the next show. I am only curious as to the value, I will never sell the set. I am looking forward to building my layout when we move into our new house. I will be running this set along with the Budd RDC set which was also my father's.

I totally forgot that I had the Greenberg Guide to Uncataloged Sets Volume IV, and to reference the first response by WTJOHN, it lists the number 9659 with date of 1958?.  The notation from the book is as follows:

9659 (multiple use of number)--1958

Comments: At present, we have not found any Sears catalog listing for this set.  It reused an outfit number that was previously assigned in 1954 to what was then equivalent of catalogued Lionel Outfit 1513S.  This outfit was a conventional two tier basket weave type with a "58" date on the underside of the set carton and included a Sears price sticker marked "$59.95".  We do not know the contents, but the set was purportedly headed by a 665 Steam engine.  D. LeGore observation.

*****No Value of the above, due to the lack of verifiable contents*****

I can offer nothing except to say that you have a beautiful set! Enjoy.

Be extra careful of that 6519 Allis-Chalmers car it looks like it has both brake wheels they are real fragile. This is a special set. Enjoy

franktrain

I love stories/mysteries like this!

Thank you for sharing this great set with us!

Peter

The book I used to try and solve this puzzle....

Peter

Here is a list of the books I use, which I own, for doing searches.

Hey John1361

What an awesome set --- Thanks for posting, love stuff from this era.