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Sure it could Bob.  Everyone that likes a battery acts like it was just invented and will revolutionize trains.

 

The G guys roll their eyes because they have been doing it for years.  An the RC control has also been out for years.

 

You could have kept you trains as is, thrown your transformer away, and hooked a 18-24V battery to your input of the TIU.  I would definitely have fused it with a 10amp fuse though.  Run DC to your rails and have fun.

 

Alternatively the G guys disassemble a TIU and stick it in a trailing car with a battery.  Battery power TIU fixed 1 input, and Fix 1 output goes to the engine via a harness to the input of the PS-2 board.  No track power required.  Presto battery operated DCS train.   G

Presto, George?!?!?!  I don't think it's quite the wave of a magic wand but I do recall reading about the G scale guys doing that.

 

John,  Sometimes I forget about those "small" things

 

About the dumbest thing I ever said was to a co-worker at NNSY.  We were walking to a ship and there was a sailor in a small boat painting the hull near the waterline and I said..."What do they do when the tide comes in?"  My co-worker looked at me like I had lost my mind, then I realized what I had said (he was right).

It really is Bob, Just 2 wires.  If you can scratch build an engine, I am sure you could do it 

 

By the time your done, you will have more expensive engines, and right now no sounds or synchronized features like smoke.  So after 4 or 5 engines, you have more cost invested then the transformer.  After 3-5 years and a few battery replacements that transformer looks pretty good.

 

But I understand tinkering and changing things up.  So enjoy it.  G

I think John brought up a good point. When switching basic operating modes, if you have to give up features that you like, it's not a simple decision. Every operating mode has a whole list of pluses and minuses. I think Lee Willis put such a list together in an earlier posting.

On the subject of the early adoption of battery power by G gauge operators, they had a greater incentive (outdoors) and a lot more space to work with in the trains, so it's no surprise that it became commonplace. The attractiveness to OGauge has been stepped up by the newer high capacity battery systems that are quite small and fit better with our space constraints.

I keep my eye on what develops, but right now I don't see an incentive to replace everything I have and step down in features.  I don't have so much trouble getting power and signal to my locomotives that going to some new system is a big draw.

 

Now, if the new system offers some really neat features that I can't currently get, that's different.  However, getting a Vision Line Big Boy with battery power seems a bit far off, especially with four smoke units, two audio systems, three speakers, etc.

 

John,

 

I think the only reason I did it was I've been wanting to go 2-rail for so long I couldn't think straight!  This was the only way I could see me doing it.

 

For those in 3-rail that want to experiment with 2-rail you can take just about any engine made since 1990 (with a DC can motor) and run straight DC off the tracks, or get one of these RC sets and have at it.  Like I said, I've been running one of these engines (2.4Ghz) right along with my DCS/TMCC diesels without interference.  I can add sound, just choosing not to right now.

 

I still want to test this using a smaller Mah battery pack, no more than 1000Mah ought to be plenty for an hour or so.

Originally Posted by Bob Delbridge:

John,

 

I think the only reason I did it was I've been wanting to go 2-rail for so long I couldn't think straight!  This was the only way I could see me doing it.

 

For those in 3-rail that want to experiment with 2-rail you can take just about any engine made since 1990 (with a DC can motor) and run straight DC off the tracks, or get one of these RC sets and have at it.  Like I said, I've been running one of these engines (2.4Ghz) right along with my DCS/TMCC diesels without interference.  I can add sound, just choosing not to right now.

 

I still want to test this using a smaller Mah battery pack, no more than 1000Mah ought to be plenty for an hour or so.

Bob, That is 1A Hr.  I think you will find that the voltage drop may hurt as it is expended.  That is why batteries are oversized for some of these applications.  Need to keep voltage up too.  G

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

I keep my eye on what develops, but right now I don't see an incentive to replace everything I have and step down in features.  I don't have so much trouble getting power and signal to my locomotives that going to some new system is a big draw.

 

Now, if the new system offers some really neat features that I can't currently get, that's different.  However, getting a Vision Line Big Boy with battery power seems a bit far off, especially with four smoke units, two audio systems, three speakers, etc.

 

I agree, but a major plus with the BPR/C concept is that you don't need to replace everything, all it takes is one unit, and it will work fine on any layout, right alongside whatever power system you are currently using, whether two or three rails. The only drawback is that at the moment, the early adopters must be tinkerers who are willing to gather the equipment and install it themselves in their own locomotive. It wI'll be much more attractive once it becomes available as "plug & play". The LionChief system comes close, but since there is no battery, it must have a fixed voltage on the rails, which is fine for compatibility with the digital systems, but not totally compatible with conventional control.

 

Bill in FtL

Well, if you've followed any of my postings, you can see that gathering the equipment and installing it myself isn't a major stumbling block for me.  

 

However, when I gather it up and install it all, I want it to be an upgrade in capability, not a downgrade.  While running in any environment is interesting, that really doesn't come up for me, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

 

I follow along, as I can see that as battery technology improves, so will the capabilities of battery powered model trains.  It's "interesting" to me now, but not something that fits into my current plans.

 

The concept should really be split into sub groups.

 

Battery Power versus Transformer Power; or Track Power versus Train power (battery right now, maybe light power in the future).

 

2 rail versus 3 rail.

 

AC versus DC

 

RC control versus Manufacture Control.  Or is it universal cheap control?

 

Do the pro and con of what you want, and see what is best for you, but RC and battery have been out there for a while. 

 

But if people who are willing to pay big money for scale, detailed engine also want features like synchronized sounds, smoke, operating features and running of a railroad from a single remote, some manufacturer will really need to step up to give you that with the current RC line.  I have been told by G scale guys when they turn on smoke, they loose operational time due to battery drainage.  So they accept a trade off to run batteries outdoors, or without transformers.

 

I don't think someone who loves the Lionel Big boy is willing to loose all those features just to have batteries, especially when much of this hobby is done indoors in the winter.  G

 

 

Last edited by GGG

There are, as GGG pointed out, separate issues at play. The two major ones seem to be variable track voltage conventional control vs fixed track voltage wireless control and track power vs battery power. I think we can all agree that wireless control, whether it is TMCC, Legacy, MTS, LionChief, etc. is a mature format which is now part of our landscape. More variations of wireless, like bluetooth and smartphone apps will continue to come out and will just add to our choices.

Battery power vs track power is a whole different ballgame. Here we have a relatively new application which is trying to figure itself out. The early adopters who have tried this out (like me) seem to like it because of the freedom it provides. But this comes at a cost, mainly dearth of other features like smoke and sound. No other battery centric hobby requires these extra options so we are somewhat unique here. When the missing pieces are eventually filled in, battery power will probably become as commonplace as the other systems.

I'll add another thought to the mix,

 

If your "thing" is to entertain the masses, with a large layout, display at a show, or maybe you're just a runner of trains who likes to watch them go around, then it would seem smoke and sound would be almost mandatory.

 

If your "thing" is operation, going to/from one destination to another with switching in between, or maybe a lone wolf, then maybe smoke/sound isn't what's on the top of your list.

 

There's no right or wrong way, just different ways.

 

For BPRC to become commonplace it will take folks showing enough interest to get the manufacturer's attention.

 

In the RC world of cars/boats/planes/helicopters I've already noticed they're adding sound and LEDs to some of the models.  It's only a matter of time before we see smaller, more powerful components that can be used in larger scales at a great price.

 

Installing the RC system in my engines wasn't any harder than installing a PS2 upgrade kit.  As it was, a bit easier as I didn't have to do any downloading of sound files.

 

A person just getting started has a lot of options to consider:  2-rail, 3-rail, AC, DC, DCC, TMCC/Legacy, DCS, Conventional, and now BPRC.  Want to spend less time crawling under the layout to do wiring, BPRC seems like the way to go.  Don't like that middle rail, BPRC can set you free!

 

The sticky part right now is there's not an abundance of engines without some sort of command control electronics inside, except maybe some older 2-rail engines with only a DC motor.  I've got 6 PS2 sets, a DCS Handheld and TIU, a PowerHouse, a PowerMaster, a CAB1-L handheld and base, and an older CAB-1 handheld sitting idle as I type.  That was a lot to give up for what I wanted to do, plus a trashcan full of middle rail.

Folks forget early Power to houses was DC.  Early models train folks in the 1900s used batteries and DC sources to run trains.

 

PS-3 has opened up the world to 2R.  So anyone attacking this segment will have to compete with PS-3.  2 Rail or 3 rail, AC or DC, DCC, Conventional or DCS.  In any combination.

 

Bob, lots of folks like point to point movement, but in a realistic manner.  That usually means sounds and some level of smoke and other operating features.  If you have track side accessories you want to operate, including basic building lights you still need a transformer.

 

How ever you want to skin it, you are using a system that requires it's controller to operate the motor driver. So it is not universal.

 

I know your on to BPRC, but why not Airwire? Or any of the other companies that are doing this? Airwire adopted a DCC format so any DCC based sounds system works with it.

 

I still think Battery is relegated to the outdoor folks and temporary layouts, or the tinkerer.

 

Scale 2R guys who operate railroads inside will be happy with DC or AC  transformers on 2 rail.   G

I know your on to BPRC, but why not Airwire? Or any of the other companies that are doing this? Airwire adopted a DCC format so any DCC based sounds system works with it.

 

George, mainly because I didn't care for some of the features of Airwire.

 

Here's a comparison blurb off the RCS website (not sure how old this is so some of it may have changed over time):

 

 

COMPARE # RCS-PnP FEATURES WITH 4 POPULAR R/C SYSTEMS.

SYSTEM2.4 GhzPROPO (1)SPEED CONTBRAKEAPPLY/RELBUTTONS ONLYMUCAPABLESET DEFAULTDIRECTIONSPEED MATCHINGDCCSOUNDOTHERSOUNDPnP
TRACK/BATT POWER
RCSYESYESNo(5)NoYESYESYESNoYESYES
REVOLUTION®YesNONOYesYesYesYesNOYesYes
AIRWIRE®NONONOYes(2)YesYesYesYesYesNO(4)
QSI® +G-Wire + TXNONONOYes(3)YesYesYesYesNOYes
 LOCOLINC®NONONOYesYes??NOYesNO

Notes: 
(1) Linear Digital Proportional Speed Control.
(2) Also uses an analogue to digital converter, continuously rotating knob.
(3) Also uses an analogue to digital converter, continuously rotating thumbwheel.
(4) Can be used with constant voltage track power or batteries. with the addition of a bridge rectifier and adequate filtering capacitance.
(5) Not needed.  Manual knob controls braking rate. Infintely adjustable.

 

I have never cared for the continuously rotating knob on the CAB-1 or the fragile thumbwheel of the DCS handheld.  Although...the 300 degree rotating knob of the RCS Tx7k Transmitter is capable of 256 (or is it 300, being it's 300 degree of rotation?) "speed steps", very difficult to gauge a single step when turning the knob.  I put a sticker on the knob with 15 degree lines drawn so I can see an approximation of how far I've turned it, really not necessary but a visual is always welcome

 

It came down to the fact I really got tired of all those sounds, some I liked and some I didn't.  The price wasn't bad either, but I also knew I was losing $$$ by backfitting from DCS to BPRC.

 

I still may install a 081 loop above the layout and run my 3-rail CDS/TMCC/Legacy diesels and passenger cars.  It'll have to use some slanted wall brackets, like these sold at Ikea:

 

 

ekby-riset-bracket-for-sloping-wall-white__0107118_PE256723_S4

 

Each 11-3/4" bracket can hold 21 lbs, that should be strong enough for a 081x12 foot loop of track, roadbed, and passenger train as the weight will be distributed/moving...just don't let it sit still in one place very long

 

If anyone has experience with these or can suggest another bracket let me know.  I need something that will open to 135 degrees (I have a 12-pitch roof).

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A small update to my BPRC progress:

 

I bought another transmitter, this time a Tx-3.  Not as many functions available as the tx7k but it was less costly and does everything I ask of it so far.  I commented to Tony Walsham the owner about how nice the rounded-edge box of the Tx-3 is and he said he was going to use it form now on, it really fits my hand well.

 

I've got 4 steam engines modified and have the receivers for the other 3, but forgot to get the on/off/charger modules when I ordered them so now I'm having to wait for them to arrive.  Should be early next week so I should have all 7 steam engines converted by this time next week.

 

Since my last battery charge I have not had to recharge any of them, can't believe at the time I'm getting off the batteries.  I haven't measured the time but it seems to be in the hours.  Maybe I'll start jotting down how long I run one just so I can throw out a figure.

 

5 of the engines will be using LiPos and 2 will be powered by NiMh battery packs.

 

I may even convert a diesel just to see how the system does on a 2-motor unit.

It's been almost 5 years now I went BPRC.  Today, I'm working on the last of 19 steamers and diesels getting the BPRC treatment, no DCS/TMCC engines exist on my layout as of now.

I was running an engine the other day and it stopped dead on the tracks.  By now I realize it's the battery needing to be recharged so I took it to the bench.  I have kept a log of when I recharge batteries and this one was last charge almost 1 year ago!!!  It ran for an hour before it died.

I'm trying to determine if I can design a buzzer of some kind that would sound when the battery drops to a certain level, or better yet time it's been used.  I need something to tell me when the 2:15 mark has been reached, because my earlier tests show that 2-1/2 hours is normal for any of these batteries.

I could record operating session times but that sounds like too much paperwork.  A timer that would shut off when I turn off power, and sound when the 2:15 time is reached would do the trick, just now thought of that!!!

That would enable me to bring the engine into the service facility for a recharge, instead of having to pick it up from the layout (hate that) and carry it to the bench.

So, almost 5 years and the only problem I've had is one of the MTH wiring harnesses I used (which was a used one) went bad and I had to replace it.  The Rx65b receivers, the 3 different transmitters from RCS Australia, and the (14) 9.6 NiMh, (3) 11.1 LiPo, and (2) 12.0 NiMh volt batteries are all working fine.  The only sound I have is that of the engines/trains going down the track, and my ears ringing (tinnitus)  

I still have 3 Bluerail Bluehorse receivers installed (Williams E7, Weaver SR3, Bachmann G scale 4-6-0) and they are still working as well.

I would like to go back and dress my wiring harnesses a bit better, but as long as they're working I don't see the need.

I still want to develop a charging station that looks like a water/fuel column, where the charging cable can be pulled and retracted from the spout. More projects!!!

It's the 3 engines with 11.1v batteries that are LiPos.  So far no issues, but I may install some of those mini voltmeters that you're talking about Bob, thanks!

I do have a separate charger for the LiPos and they use different connectors so as not to get them mixed up.   I don't "fast charge" them like the airplane guys do, I think that would be asking for trouble.

I converted my last 3 engines this week, RailKing NW2 and RS3, and a Lionel GP9.  I had taken the GP9 apart to repaint when I first got it from Jon Z., but didn't really take a good look at it.  I did this time around and IMO Lionel makes a top notch engine, very well built mechanically.

I've got a box of PS2, TMCC, and ERR units I pulled out of these engines,  I may put them up for sale at some point once I take inventory.

Bob, the 2 NiMh chargers I got from All-Battery are rated at (1) 1 or 2 amp/h, (2) is rated for .9 or 1.8 amp/h. I use the low setting on each, but may try the higher setting just to see.  I leave all the batteries inside the tenders/engines so maybe leaving it on low may be best.

I thought I blew one of the Rx65b receivers the other day, turned out I had a faulty polyfuse, easy fix.

Interesting thread Bob.

  I'm glad to know you achived your goal despite the opinions of others on BP RC (including myself Sorry if it frustrated you badly )

   I like your water tower idea and have thunking (I like the typo..it stays ) ...mostly about the recoil of wire. Maybe an old "automatic" fishing reel? They weren't worth a poop on anything but a small  perch off a dock anyhow. I see one every few years at garage sales, often dirt cheap. Then again I live near the Detroit River and L. Erie, so that kinda stuff is in nearly every garage too.

I suppose a normal reel's spool could be used too. Attach two rings and a set of brushes to avoid wire twist? I know...less than a foot. But over time the wire might not like the twist. Two-three springs, staggered slack, to pull one by one, may work, depending on water tank's internal area.

I really liked the bashed steamer too. Sharp. Is there a build thread?

Last edited by Adriatic

Good idea about the automatic fishing reel!!!  I bought one of those things that keeps Ipod, earphone cables from getting tangled, but you have to pull on both ends of the cable to make it work.  A fishing reel would do it, but would have to be underneath the table or hidden in a building.  I gave one away not too long ago

I didn't do many/any build threads as such, I should have.

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