Converting an Older Weaver Diesel to Sound and TMCC?

Terry,  you can actually put the electronics all in the powered unit, much simpler than putting it in the dummy.  There should be plenty of space in the powered unit.  Doing a diesel is normally a pretty easy project for the Cruise Commander and RailSounds Commander.

You may want to consider upgrading the motors also to Timko, flywheel motors.  These sets usually had motors in both A units.

You don't need flywheel motors with the ERR Cruise Commander, I've done a few conversions without flywheels and they worked fine.

Yes, I know that, but the existing Weaver motors could stand to be upgraded, the performance is well worth it.  

Existing motors.

Replacement motors.

Probably, but I think I'd save the money and get it running with the stock motors.  Then if you don't like the performance, you could go for the upgraded motors.  I've done a number of non-flywheel motor upgrades, they generally ran fine with the Cruise Commander.  I suspect the Timko motors will add at least $100 to the price...

one more thing to consider is how old if its the old plastic/metal chain drive with drive shafts, I wouldn't waste my money on it every one I had like that were junk I couldn't get rid of them fast enough even after sending to get fix at weaver it was less then 6 months same problem had B&O A&B units if there like your showing gear drive yes go for it they are great

You're right, it would be useful to actually see what's under the hood of what he has.

I don't have anything.

I DO have a big soft spot for CP1800!

Weaver made it several years ago. Not sure how many! I can buy a set off ebay.

Last time I mentioned this, the thread disappeared. No idea why.

Here it is:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WEAVER-...W-BOX-/231547384917?

Well, you can certainly upgrade them, if that's the burning question.

Originally posted by rtraincollector :

one more thing to consider is how old if its the old plastic/metal chain drive with drive shafts, I wouldn't waste my money on it every one I had like that were junk I couldn't get rid of them fast enough even after sending to get fix at weaver it was less then 6 months same problem

Originally posted by gunrunnerjohn:

You're right, it would be useful to actually see what's under the hood of what he has.

The Weaver E8's were all made by Samhongsa and have the dual motor vertical drive. The Older Mabuchi-non flywheel motors were used- just like williams diesels were at that time. No worries of "Chain Drive" for those units, however they were missing the metal step rails found below the carbody and the fuel tank is all plastic with NO provisions to install a speaker as found on many MTH/K-line E8s out there.

The reverse units were QSI for the 3 rail ones and can be resold. The QSI reverse units were very robust.

The speaker can be added to the fuel tank or the rear deck of the unit.

Rear deck speaker mounting and holes drilled.

The speaker in the fuel tank required a hole in the base plate and holes in the plastic fuel tank. Hole for speaker magnet.

Holes for the speaker

Fuel tank installation.

I can always find a place for the speaker as Mike says.

I'd just get it and install the Cruise Commander / RailSounds Commander combo and see how it runs.  My guess is you'll be pretty happy with the performance and that will do the trick.

IMO All that being said, you would hope that one of these Weaver Samhongsa sets could be had for $200 or less.  Upgrade the electronics, motors and may be even add some fancy marker lights and a 1990's offering would be a pretty nice addition.  IMO

 Mike CT

Weaver Pennsy E8 Upgrade picture file.  There are 92 photos.  

If you don't want to go the drilling method.  I have done it on early Williams, you can get a Williams speaker holder and mount it vertically in the engine.  Works well and still sounds good.

Mike were those older motors 380 series (0 at the end).  If so they are 3 pole, and going to a newer Version would be a 5 pole.  Which should work better with ERR Cruise.  G

Difficult to tell about the motors.  They are open, you don't have to tear them apart.  There are six separate windings of the armature.  No markings on the motors.  Some would talk about what a huge power draw these AA sets were.   Kind of amazing to see how train wiring has changed in 20 some years.   The light bulb hooked to the motor leads, to light the cab interior is classic.   Motors are available to anyone who wants them. 

Those wondering, the big black cylinder, is a weight added for traction, also note that these antiques did have traction tires which would have been State of the Art at that time, IMO. During the extensive re-model, the cylinder was moved to accommodate EOB electronics, at the time. 

There were detail issues with these E8's at the time.  Apparently the application of the metal grills tended to bow-out from the plastic shells. On occasion you will find shell only-s available, most likely part remains of the Weaver fix at the time.  Weaver sold the E8 molds to MTH.  The two models should be similar. 

I had done some other conversions.  The Weaver C630's had flywheel motors and were easily upgraded with out motor changes.   I also had TAS at the time do a very nice upgrade of a U25b Pennsy units.   Not hard to find these units for $100 or less.

U25b

I've had a look at Mike's images of his upgrade. Many thanks for posting them!

The Weaver E8s are not the most highly detailed models ever produced but they're the only CP1800/1801 E8 ever AFAIK. So, it's not the innards I am after but the painted shells. Were it feasible to use a newer E8, from Lionel or MTH and swap the shells, I'd do it!

Now, it has been mentioned that Weaver sold the molds for these to MTH. That begs the question. IS it possible to mount these old Weaver shells on a new MTH E8? Were I to find an MTH E8, in any road name, such as the one in the following link . . .

http://mthtrains.com/20-20050-1

Would that Weaver shell fit it?

If they're the same size, it's usually possible to graft the shells onto a different chassis.  It is sometimes a bit of work as frequently the mounting screws don't line up.  Also, you may have to do some surgery if you want smoke as the MTH has smoke, and the Weaver doesn't.  Finally, you'll have to redo the shell lighting as the MTH doubtless has quite different lighting and connections.

You may be better off finding a nice set with command and having it painted.

Thanks, John. I checked this AM and to get them painted would cost about $660 CDN for EACH unit! I'm crazy enough . . . but not THAT crazy!

http://www.cvrco.com/paint.htm

Anyone doing this kind of work for less?

$375 for a pair of non-command engines that need some degree of updating is a bit much IMO. You could try making a case with the seller to see if they would accept something considerably lower ($200 like Mike mentioned) which would be a fair price.

Shop around for a good deal on painting too...

YIKES!

Hard to believe they would cost that much!  Check with Henning's Trains Tel: (215) 362-2442, they have a couple of guys that do painting on tap.  I've seen the work, very nice.  I know it's not that expensive!

Called. No joy! Like they thought I was crazy!

Who did you talk to?

Can't say as I recall the name, or if he gave one.

Seemed no interest in selling an E8 and repainting it. Brief talk about the inability to get decals. The conversation was going nowhere. I'm not in the habit of trying to convince a business they should take on a project!

Anyway, on the basis of what is being said here, I am putting this idea aside for the time being. As detailed in two other threads, I have my hands full with loco problems. Twice I am told the merchant is asking far more for this old set than is reasonble. It is at least the second time he has listed it without a sale which sort of bears that out.

I am more convinced than ever that I have to either take care of these problems on my own, or just give up on them. I have, of necessity, opened three locomotives so far and am not impressed with what I see in there! It's simply a mess! Ill-fitting boards squashed together and a snarl of wires positively inviting trouble. And trouble I have had!

I've ordered a Cruise Commander and Railsounds Commander and will gut the tender on the soundless engine and see if I can do better. If not, the term "shelf queen" comes to mind.

My initial impression is that the "mass producers" have engines that are more reliable than the "custom," ultra-expensive products. No problems with my Atlas or MTH engines. At least not yet. What they look like inside, I cannot yet say as I have had no need to open them up . . . yet. The more expensive, limited production products have ALL had some problem or other! I take that back. Of five premium engines, precisely one has been flawless "out-of-the-box." One out of five! So, I'm pretty discouraged with it all at this point.

Shipping these things back and forth across the border for repair is expensive. And, so far, the one that has come back from a professional repair ran beautifully . . . for two  days! And then, another problem. I'm still waiting to get another back.

The Weaver E8 is now on hand. I have not run it yet as I have a problem that precludes conventional at this time (wonky transformer controller).

The Weavers actually look nicer than I expected. Internally, it seems identical to the one Mike shows being converted. I attach an image anyway.

I've already installed a Kadee up front and enclosed the pilot on the lead unit. I'd like to proceed with converting it to TMCC. Partly because I want this loco to run with sound and digital control and partly as an experience to learn how to do this stuff. At this time ERR are out of speakers so I have not yet received even my first shipment from them for my out of service steamer. So, it might be a while before they ship electronics for this project as well.

I have three questions:

One specifically for for Mike . . . where did the classification lights come from? They magically appear in the photo sequence of your conversion but I don't know who sells them. Were they difficult? They really seem very worthwhile! I want them!!!

Each of the Weaver A units are powered. To run them together, both must be converted which will be expensive. How to run them together?

I note a strip with black & white hash marks in the images of Mike's build. I take it these are for tach. readings. These are no longer necessary as newer ERR stuff reads the speed from motor RPM. Is that correct?

At the time TAS (Train America Studio) had a small bi-color/bi-polar diode kit that worked well with the TMCC upgrade that I installed.  Since I wasn't using the Smoke output of the EOB (Engineer on Board) electronics,  The smoke output wiring off the board was used to power the front and rear marker lights. Depending on the direction the unit was traveling the diodes would change  green/red.  Wiring diagram.  A drill bit slightly smaller than 3 millimeters, the size of the diodes, was used to drill holes in the shell.

Unit in reverse.

Forward.

Directional markers can be done if you have smoke as well, just takes a couple of diodes and resistors and three-wire bi-color LED's.  I've done it on a number of locomotives.  In my case, I drive them from the two headlight outputs.