Coventional to ??? Command

Question is do you have either of the TMCC or DCS command units?

The Lionel option includes adding a stock Lionel reversing unit (available from Lionel) and have conventional control.

Next come the Lionel command (TMCC) upgrades from their subsidiary ERR. Choices there are: DC Commander ($70) basic command upgrade; Cruise Commander ($120) command upgrade with cruise control. Adding sound to either will run another $85. Assuming your engine does not have coil couplers add another $20 for command controlled couplers.

These are all pretty easy DIY installations if you care to tackle it yourself. At least one person on this forum sells these parts at a discount. Several of us offer installations for a fee.

Finally the ERR website has the installation manuals in PDF form, so you can study them before trying to do your own installation.

 

jackson

And at least one of us supports the magazine by advertising in OGR.

 

Bill

It's about $210 in parts including electrocouplers to change over to TMCC.  It is a fun and easy project, if you don't have a problem following directions.  I like those engines.  That would make a handsome pair.  Good luck in getting them running to your liking.

Modeltrainsparts, thanks for your answers.  I guess the best way to look at this is, that I am starting from a chassis with two motor trucks, lights in the shell and a smoke unit.  Currently it has the two MTH PS2 coil couplers and I suspect they'll work with the Lionel boards.  I would like command control and sound if possible.

 

Regards the reversing unit, the engine originally had an electronic one, but not sure if that is still around.  If I do have it, would that suffice?

 

 

Charly,

Assuming you have a Lionel TMCC Cab1 and Base, all you would need is an ERR DC Commander and a Railsounds Commander, both available from many sources including direct from ERR or at a discount from Boxcar Bill (a very reputable dealer). Your Lionel reversing unit is not required. More likely than not your MTH coil couplers will work with Lionel TMCC. (i have been told they are NOT compatible, but in dozens of installs have never found this to be the case. Hope this helps.

 

jackson

MTH PS2 coil couplers may trigger on a Lionel installation, but they're much higher current than the Lionel pr PS1 couplers.  I personally do NOT recommend them as I've replaced several triacs for folks that were using them and killed the coupler triac.

John,

That may explain it as i've never converted a PS2 or later MTH locos to TMCC, only LocoSound and PS1 loco's.

Thanks for the info; I'll watch out for PS2 locos.

By the way do you happen to have a copy of the instruction sheet for a TAS SAW board?

 

jackson

PS/1 locomotives have basically the same type of couplers that Lionel uses, they were both designed to run off track power.  PS/2 couplers have 1/3 the resistance and are designed for considerably higher currents  I know they'll quickly pop the test bench 2A breaker if I energize them for more than a fraction of a second.  I can hold the Lionel or PS/1 coupler on the transformer all day, it just gets hot.

 

The TAS stuff is all in this post, the SAW disappeared, so I added it again, it's currently the last post in the thread.

 

TMCC/LEGACY REFERENCE MATERIALS & MANUALS

John,

Thank you very much -- briefly looked over it - has a lot of valuable info (especially re. MTH light bulbs/resistors) - will print them all out later.

jackson

Why not finish the PS-2 upgrade?  What stopped it?  G

Can't get the shell to seat, and the light bulbs are all on boards and need resistors.  Takes up too much room and the cab keeps popping up.  I also have a much better use for the PS2 board in several PS1 MTH engines .

 

"I personally do NOT recommend them as I've replaced several triacs for folks that were using them and killed the coupler triac."

 
 "PS/1 locomotives have basically the same type of couplers that Lionel uses, they were both designed to run off track power."
 
So in the process of updating a PS1 to PS2 I'll have old PS1 couplers, so...  All I need to do is swap the couplers from the old PS1 to the Lionel, and move the ones from the upgrade kit on the Lionel with the board when I upgrade the PS1 to PS2.
 
Whew!!!  Right?
 
 
 
"Assuming you have a Lionel TMCC Cab1 and Base, all you would need is an ERR DC Commander and a Railsounds Commander, both available from many sources including direct from ERR or at a discount from Boxcar Bill (a very reputable dealer)."
 
I do have a TMCC Cab1 and Base.  Thanks for the input guys!! 

"So in the process of updating a PS1 to PS2 I'll have old PS1 couplers, so...  All I need to do is swap the couplers from the old PS1 to the Lionel, and move the ones from the upgrade kit on the Lionel with the board when I upgrade the PS1 to PS2."

 

Huh? I'm confused

 

jackson

Folks have said that they use PS/1 couplers for PS/2 conversions.  I personally don't do that, but you won't damage the PS/2 boards with PS/1 couplers.  My point is don't use PS/2 couplers with Lionel TMCC upgrades, the R2LC (or R4LC) triac isn't rated to drive them, they draw excessive current.

 

You can get the Cruise Commander and RailSounds Commander from many sources as you say.

 

Lionel engine has PS2 upgrade kit including couplers.

Candidate engine is PS1.

 

Move stuff from Lionel to PS1, move PS1 couplers to Lionel and purchase new boards.

 

I get what John is saying and I shouldn't have a problem once I get the TMCC boards.

 

lol.

 

I knew that was a long sentence. 

You got it!

Now it makes sense

They must hold the button down, or repeatedly press it.  Not sure a single shot should do that. G

I wouldn't let the cost of TMCC couplers be a stumbling block.  They're not real expensive.

Here is a picture file of  a conventional set of Weaver E8's  upgraded to EOB, (no longer available). There was a motor change for flywheels. Wiring plugs into a modular board.  A lot of times the most difficult project is getting the lights and marker lights to work at the correct voltage. IMO. Click on the images to enlarge or Click on slideshow.  SAW (Sunset, Atlas, Weaver) boards, and EOB boards account for the lights but usually at a different voltage than the lights in an MTH model. Speaker change may also be noted.  8 ohms/16 ohms. The couplers were mentioned.  Adding marker or ditch lights is another project. Current ERR upgrade kits don't have the flywheel tack strip and optical sensor.  Most upgrade labor cost are relatively inexpensive, until you get to changing lights, couplers, speakers, etc.  Coupler length and how it mounts to the unit is another consideration.  

LED's add a lot to one of these upgrades.

Note that Weaver list upgrade costs on their website.  Availability of PS2 kits should be checked. 

What can I say, I've had several of them in with blown coupler drivers, and they've had the 2.4 ohm coil MTH couplers on them.  The only blown drivers I've seen with the proper couplers are when the leads get shorted to the frame.

You aren't kidding!  I typically spend a lot more time on the lighting than the actual command and sound install.  For something with lots of lighting, it's quite a trip to get it all working, more so if you want independent control.

 

Witness this schematic of my command upgrade of a BEEP, the easy part was getting it moving.  If you want to go fancy with lots of controls and lights, it takes lots of wiring, and that takes lots of time.

 

 

John,

Can't agree with you more. i just finished a MTH Amtrak Genesis; the lights took more time than everything else combined.

 

jackson

Ya, But  all the lighting makes it. 

Note the lights on the  UP C630. 

 

 

One thing that helps now are both the 1mm and 2mm LED's in warm white and colors that are now available.

 

jackson

I agree, lighting really enhances the effect, that's why I put so much emphasis on it.

 

I haven't seen 1mm white LED's, do you have a reference?  Are you talking about surface mount ones?   I keep 2mm, 3mm, and 5mm white and warm white in stock.

 

The LEDs in the Tomar kits are really small.

Between the red and blue wire

Mike, I know about the SMT LED's, I use the 603 size for small places.  I just wondered about a thru-hole 1mm LED, those I haven't seen.

 

These are surface mount, but are so small they work well in many places.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C0603W...03-NEW-/221513993078

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C0402R...D222007%26algo%3DSIC

 

i haven't seen any through the hole in anything smaller than 3mm

YIKES!  They sure want a lot of money for soldering a couple of wires on them!

 

Here's 100 0603 warm white LED for $6.99, I can solder my own wires onto them!  These are 1.6mm x .8mm, usually small enough to fit almost anywhere you need one on an O-gauge locomotive.

 

How about 100 0603 assorted color LED for $4.00?

 

Post LED's come in 2mm white and warm white.

Yes, but soldering .28 mm wire is not my favorite pastime considering both cataracts and GCA in the eyes.

 

jackson

Point taken, but you pay for the privilege of buying them soldered.