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I am aiming at the Guru, but will take any advice I can cause I know many of you guys are well versed in this. I just acquired a #60 trolley and a #50 gang car.  Both complete and pretty nice. I did the normal things I do on old locos when I get them. Clean brushes, brush wells, and commutator slots. Re assemble and a basic lube. 

 

The gang car goes super one way, hit the bumper then nothing. The little slide contact is clean and touching fine. I hate to say this but it did work both ways before I cleaned it. Not good but it tried. Now it goes great one way and dead the other way.

 

The trolley goes great one way, hit the bumper, and it labors like a gear locked up. The light dims and it hums hard like it's trying. I pulled the brush plate back off, lifted out the armature, wheels spin fine.  Put armature in and it all spins fine. After this attempt at running after I cleaned it, and then pulled the brush plate back off, the copper armature face is as dirty black as when I started 10 minutes prior. Maybe worse. It was shiny when I put it together the first time after the basic cleaning. I also made sure the little ball bearing was re-installed in the brushplate head. It blackened the copper face right away.

 

What is happening?

 

I obviously am no Guru, but I have cleaned and worked on many old Lionels, but this is a new problem to me.

 

Any help from ALL is surely welcome.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Last edited by MattR
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If the gang car is completely dead in one direction, then its likely you have a broken wire. Here is a test:

 

Try to run your gang car with a pair of test leads (rear cover off):

Place one lead on the "hot" terminal of the brush plate, or connect it to the collector shoe.

Touch the other lead to one of the terminals on the plate by the reversing slide. The motor should run in one direction.
Then touch the other lead to the second terminal on the plate by the reversing slide. The motor should run in the opposite direction.

 

If the motor runs in both directions, then your wiring is still OK, but you have a problem with the slide contacts.

If the motor only runs in one direction, then you have a wire that is either disconnected or broken.

Regarding your trolley: If it runs OK in one direction and just "locks up" and hums in the other, your problem could be mechanical or electrical.

Electrical:

When the reversing slide in the "won't run" position, you may have both field coils energized. Look for a place where one of the field wires is touching the frame or some other "ground". Or something could be caught under the slide, grounding one of the contact buttons all the time.  Or you could have one bad winding (unlikely)

Just saw a broken field winding wire. On the side that has 2 coming off the terminal. I can see the little stubb in the winding. I tried to touch the 2 together but it doesn't seem to make it change. I know that's not a fix, but a way of trouble shooting at least. 

 

How about that trolley? Was super clean, 10 minutes later the brush faces and the armature face was black. I have it sitting on the counter now with the plate off and brushes out waiting for some input. I re-cleaned the armature face. I have new brushes to put in, but hated to burn them up too till I got more input. The old ones don't look terrible so I figured just a cleaning and good to go. I have seen way worse run fine.




quote:
Just saw a broken field winding wire. On the side that has 2 coming off the terminal. I can see the little stubb in the winding. I tried to touch the 2 together but it doesn't seem to make it change. I know that's not a fix, but a way of trouble shooting at least. 




The wires are coated with an insulator. You need to scrape away the coating from both wires. since they both go to the same terminal, it would be OK to just solder them together. Tricky, but it can be done.

If the stub is long enough it's also possible to splice a piece of wire into the end.
If the broken wire is coming from the outside of the coil, you should be able to unwrap one turn of wire so you have something to work with. (may have to do this as a pair, the matching wire is probably going to the slide plate terminal).

 

The field wires are easily broken. I usually will unsolder them from the brush plate before removing it.

 

quote:
How about that trolley? Was super clean, 10 minutes later the brush faces and the armature face was black. I have it sitting on the counter now with the plate off and brushes out waiting for some input. I re-cleaned the armature face. I have new brushes to put in, but hated to burn them up too till I got more input. The old ones don't look terrible so I figured just a cleaning and good to go. I have seen way worse run fine.



 

Unfortunately, the answer is "it depends".

 

When I get something in to repair for someone else, they always get a fresh pair of brushes.
When I purchase a used item for myself, and service it for the first time, it also gets a fresh pair.

 

On the other hand, when I service something that I have serviced before, it rarely needs new brushes.

And when I service a new or new, old stock item before running it for the first time, it rarely needs new brushes.

 

Here is the reason: It is very common for people to over-lubricate their trains. The commutator and brushes get grease/oil on them. The oil seems to soak into the brushes. So you clean the commutator and brushes. They look great and the engine runs nicely. Park it for a while, and the oil embedded in the brush works its way back to the surface. The motor is fouled again.
Its a hassle for a customer to have to bring their train back, and even when its my own item, it's a PIA to have to disassemble a train I recently serviced.  Hence the new brushes.

 

Note: I rarely change the brush springs unless they are bad. I clean and reuse them.
This is because I do not think that the springs that are available today have the correct tension.

Last edited by C W Burfle

You can also do the same test I recommended for your gang car on the trolley. If it hums in one direction, move the slide to the alternate position and try again.

If the trolley runs OK in both directions during one of these tests, then you have a problem with one for the wires to the contact slide plate always being grounded.

 

By the way, while I am flattered to by your thread title, you might get more input with a more descriptive title.




quote:
Thanks again for the help.  Ill report on the gang car. Is it worth getting a new/used field assembly?




 

In my area, complete, fully serviced, runner grade #50 Gang cars sit on the table @ $30.  I'd look for a junker with a good field.

If you post a close up picture of the field, showing the broken end, I might be able to suggest a fix.

The trolley is running like a clock. Like I said there was a field wire touching the lamp base, a 1/2 second adjustment and it's golden.

 

It the last hour, after we got the trolley running good, my kids and I also cleaned and lubed (2) 2026's, a 2245 F3, a 628 44 ton and have a few more to go yet tonight. All Items I accumulated over summer. We are getting things ready for the Christmas tree. Which will show up this Saturday.

 

I don't have a layout, so this is the time of year we dig stuff out and set up test tracks on the floor. Like we did tonight. I have tons of old postwar gems from 773's to 746's. Unfortunately all in storage at the family farm till my "someday" layout comes to fruition.  All the rest of the year I pick up these oldies, just for this time of year to monkey with. 

 

I have a 726 I repainted. I got all new innards for the motor from Olsen's, including the little balls/thrust washers. We'll see how that goes installing them without losing them!

I have to re-number it yet though. I took the nickel drivers into a jeweler and they did that fancy sonic cleaner thing to them. They came great. I will finish it over Christmas while all the train "stuff/tools" are out and post pics. It was a basket case when I got it so had nothing to lose. I had to run the chassis and body through the hot dishwasher 2 times. Just to clean it enough to see what we were working with.  It had no tender so the most affordable thing that would be close is a 2224w with postwar trucks installed.  It will look cherry when done. I hope.

 

I will get a closer pic of the gang car. Maybe you have an idea. I know somewhere in the farm attic I have more I can cannibalize from. Just gotta find them. I'm so unorganized.

 

Thanks

Last edited by MattR

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