Dealer right or wrong ??

In my experience if you pay cash = no tax and no receipt.  If you pay with credit card = tax and receipt.  But, again, I like to see what I buy...so no open no buy = bye bye.

Although, now that I think about it, I once had a similar experience at York when I bought 2 G scale passenger cars from a certain dealer in the Orange hall.  I asked to open them and I got a very puzzled look from the dealer.  I read it as NO!!!  So, I told him I would not be interested in them if I could not see them first.  He did allow me to open then at that point.  However, he may have said no at first due to the many people at his display and the amount of time and space it would have taken to open the items.  There was nothing wrong with them.

Rick 

I'll add a few more details since I have hit on a great topic. The item I purchased was the Lionel F3s NYC 6-38368 "Red Lightning"from 2012. I had look all day for these and this was the first time I saw one and it was 4pm and I was hitting the road at 5. When I stated he handed me a blank I meant a blank receipt. Fortunately his helper was kind enough to write in the product name and number, but there was no doubt he was annoyed with me asking. As for the damage to the box it was on the inner boxes only NOT showing on the shipping carton. Also there were more of these under his table.Thank you all for your opinions.    Lenny J

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

I would agree with the idea that the refusal of a receipt would be a sign that dealer is likely not fully reporting their sales.  Unless there is an enforcement/compliance push it's very doubtful that PA Dept of Rev is concerned at these train meets/shows.

Dealers/sellers are not cheaters until they falsely file their sales/tax reporting forms.  The sales receipt can list just the total price and not list the sales tax portion, with it inferred that the sales tax amount is included in the final amount.  Also, as posted if the item is sold to a "registered" reseller then the sales tax is not collected IF the buyer has presented their valid "Sales And Use Tax Certificate of Exemption."  I would not hold my breath to see one of these cards/certificates flashed at these meets.

That is because out of state sellers process the sale/charge through their out of state business location acct. which makes it look like a out of state mail order sale.  But often the buyer is still responsible for reporting the "use tax" to their home state.  If you want to split hairs, it is probable that those out of state dealers should collect PA sales tax because by attending York they have established a physical Nexus in PA with their table location.  Think of how Amazon used to skirt the sales tax by using sub companies as their warehousers/shippers.  States got wise to this and cracked down on the big retailers.  Train dealers are small fish, but as mentioned above if there is an enforcement push, it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 Especially relevant after the recent and numerous train store thefts.

Usually you would make sure nothing is broken before buying anything. I don't buy anything unless I see it with my eyes that it is in decent condition and works. If it is sealed I wouldn't buy it because they item in new and the price is to high. The dealer should have done the right thing and let you see if anything got damaged.

Hey,All

I have to say that a good dealer would have no problem opening the box if the customer was going to buy the item. I can tell you that this type of service would never be rendered by our store. We stand behind what we sell and will take care of the customer.

Thanks for listening to my babble.

Pat

PATRICK'S TRAINS

WWW.PATSTRAINS.COM

E-MAIL PATSTRAINS@AOL.COM

304-232-0714

142 29TH STREET

WHEELING WV 26003

Patrick,

   This is why I try to do as much business with you as I can!

PCRR/Dave

The dealer is wrong and you are wrong. You should have walked away!

For what it is worth, concerning getting a receipt, in my little, cottage-industry-type small business of Layout Refinements, when I am at York, I give a receipt (which I had printed-up with the business name and my name as a letterhead, to which I hand-write an itemized list (even if it is just one item) of what the customer bought, underscored by my personal signature, for everything I sell, and I mark whether it was paid for in cash, by check, or charged to a credit card, or to be paid for when picked-up. That goes for $27 weathered vehicles, right up to $1,299 vignettes. Everything is packaged and marked with an exterior pre-printed label, stating the contents and method of payment, also, signed by me.

FrankM.

From "Fiddler on the Roof"

Avram: (to Tevye while pointing at characters Perchik and Mordcha) He's right, and he's right? They can't both be right.

Tevye: (to Avram) You know... you are also right.  

Receipts are one thing, but the tax thing really ticks me off at shows, you just know that in many cases they're pocketing the difference.

I went to a gun show with a friend who's a CPA and they pulled that on him from a 'guy selling stuff'but insisting on collecting sales tax. He broke out into terms that he later said you'd have to know if you had a business license and were indeed collecting sales tax to pass to the gov't. Total blank stare was all he got back. He told the guy, "Look, you can stop this nonsense about a sales tax you're not passing along. Either you drop that now or I report you for tax fraud. So, what's it gonna be?" Not knowing who he was dealing with (he had no idea of my friend was a cop or something), he said not to worry.

We reported the vendor to the gun show pewople on the way out anyway.

So to those who would open it, if the buyer decided for no reason, not to buy it then what?  The next person wants a factory sealed of the same item?  Just curious. I would most likely open it myself and let them look it over but of they refuse it for no reason or it's not the one I thought it was I think I'd be a bit miffed. 

LOL  Perhaps we should be as honest with the government as it is with us.  

oO

I have had enough new locos come into my shop over 18 years that were faulty that I take every one out of the box and test it. Quite often I test it in front of the buyer. I hate to have a customer bring back a new item that doesn't work. It is my biggest complaint about manufacturers today that they knowingly ship out defective product.

So no factory sealed boxes for the collector here!

At a small show it might be impossible, but at York or one of the larger train meets their might be options.  Although it takes more initiative and cooperation, why not ask the Hall Captain to act as the intermediary?  For example, the sale terms (inspection of product) are agreed upon and the Hall Captain holds the payment.  If the item passes with approval of the majority (seller, buyer & Capt) then the deal is done and money is handed to the seller.  If 2 of the 3 find a "material" fault that would cause a typical person to change their mind, then the payment is handed back to the prospective buyer.  Differences in opinion occur, but the 2 out of 3 example can lessen the chance of an unscrupulous seller taking unfair advantage of a possible known flaw AND also lessens the chance of the possible tire kicker, who wants the seller to dance a jig and bend over backwards with the product only to claim that something trivial like a folded box flap ruins the value of the item and tries to use that example to renege on the deal.

I watched  a lot of sales go down at York and I saw very few receipts.  Not to say a one wasn't given when asked.

Or course if he asked for the 6% would you walk away or pay it?  G

Merchant with attitude ( does not appreciate my business ) = no purchase from me.

Merchant who does not offer a receipt = no purchase from me.

Simple as that.  It costs NOTHING to be friendly.   

quote:

At a small show it might be impossible, but at York or one of the larger train meets their might be options.  Although it takes more initiative and cooperation, why not ask the Hall Captain to act as the intermediary?

No need for an intermediary. Clearly, the seller was offering the item for sale on an as-is basis, with no warrantee, and no guarantee as to the condition of the train inside the box. No returns under any condition.

Either accept the terms or walk on.

Have I ever purchased anything under these terms?  - Yes

Gentlemen,

Regarding sales tax, we have to register with the PA Dept of Revenue and be up to date with our sales tax due in order to exhibit in the Orange Hall. There is also a local tax as well. We are taxed on sales whether or not we collected the tax. 

Good morning all.  I don't know if this was asked or not, but why not put on a test track before leaving.  If there is a test tack, and I'm assuming this was at York, this is what I would have done.  Jim R

Any item, regardless of type, in a sealed box especially if electronics are involved, has a chance of being defective, without a receipt or sellers bill of sale, returning this defective item has the possibility of becoming a major problem. For instance, I purchased two new ac train transformers, one worked, one was defective, on the internet from a model train seller. Contacted the transformer seller technical support, told this individual what was occurring and who I purchased the transformer from, I was told to ship the transformer to them with a copy of the receipt, within two weeks I was shipped a new replacement.