Decoders: ESU vs QSI

Brad, I've used decoders by both.

My experience with ESU has been with their v4XL decoder and a LokSound Select. The XL was installed in a Sunset GG1. The select in a Sunset 44 ton. Both decoders perform flawlessly in both control and sound fidelity. The Select is surprising since the unit I used is tiny for the 44 ton, but the sound fidelity is great. ESU was the first decoder I am aware of to offer a 'ramp up, ramp down' function for the headlight, very realistic turning on and off. I have another v4XL destined for a pair of Trainmasters.

I've used QSI in a number of variations. Q1a & Q2 decoders installed in Sunset & Atlas diesels, and a upgraded Q3 version. If your buying QSI new you'll get the Q3, which has incredibly realistic sounds and infinitely adjustable settings. For the most part I do not adjust speed settings much. I try to speed match engines with the same drive train first, then adjust the decoder only if forced to.

I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. In some cases it comes down to who has the sound set you want. As it was for me with the GG1 & 44 ton.

I have used ESU in my Ho. Great motor control and very good sound. 

I'v used the esu select almost exclusively in my customer sound installs. The sound great, have a smaller footprint and are relatively cheap coma red to others and I really like them. They're extremely easy to program. I've had to mess with the QSI from time to time and they sound great but the program sing and setup was extremely complicated. My experience is mostly with the older QSI decoders so I cannot speak about their latest products

Hi Chris

Are you able to advise the Loksound Select decoder you used for the Sunset 44 tonner.

Thanks very much,

Ian

Ian, the Select was a perfect choice because of its size and sound set. I was able to fit both speaker and decoder into the Sunset 44 ton, no easy feat. At the time ESU was the only decoder with the correct prime mover sound. The engine performs beautifully.

On first glance the Loksound  XL V4.0 looks pricey.  But included in the price is the fact that it comes with a robust on-board Keep Alive capability which can sustain O scale power for 3 to 4 seconds.  No need to fiddle and choose and install your own KA.  Essentially a free KA.   I have one XL V4.0 in house and it will be my next installation in a steam engine where there's plenty of room in the tender.  A buddy brought a brass O scale diesel equipped with the XL over to my layout and ran it last week.  Awesome, realistic sound.  Excellent low speed motor control.  Said the installation and programming was a pleasant experience -- with the ESU programmer -- which I also have and look forward to using. 

I have many QSI Titan Magnum decoders in O scale diesels and steam engines.  Two steam engines and one diesel have QSI Q3 decoders.  The sound is awesome, the motor control is excellent and  there are more lighting features than I'll ever use.

 For example my Sunset QSI Q3 UP 844 -- in the engine -- has a headlight, mars light class lights, number board lights,  4 service lights over the drivers and a cab light.  The tender has markers and a backup light.  The boiler has a speaker and the tender has a speaker.  That's a lot of stuff and needed a decoder with the capability to provide a lot of stuff and do it well.  The QSI Titan Magnum came through for me.   

The QSI Titan and the Loksound XL V4.0 both have two totally independent audio channels which is important to me.  Both of my Q3 steam engines have a QSI High Bass speakers in the boiler and tender.  The tender speaker is larger and provides more bass response.  Using QSI CV Manager I balance the amplitude between the two speakers so the overall sound is shifted toward the engine boiler for more realism but yet still get good bass response from the larger tender speaker. I did these installs and after coming up the CV Manager learning curve find it enjoyable to program the lights, sound and motor control.

The Q3 diesel is a Sunset E7 A and B.   They came from the factory with one QSI Q2 decoder, a tether to control the B unit and one speaker in each unit.  They have been modified (by a noted industry leader, not me) by putting an independent QSI Q3 decoder in both the A  and B units.  And two speakers in each A and B unit -- since the E7's have two prime movers.  The result is simply awesome sound and low speed performance.  No tether.  You can hear the space separation between the two prime movers in each unit during startup and shutdown.

Bill 

I have made ESU standard , easy as I only have 5 locos.  being able to download the sound files  and being able to upgrade with a download as they come out rather than buying a new decoder is a big plus. this decoder has also tamed the china drives , this is important as My layout is mostly switching. check out there facebook page or website as they just introduced a new feature , a hold button that allows you to switch the hand held between throttle and manual notching to simulate the load most of us don't have in our small world.  just my two cents worth.

I have never used ESU decoders (I understand they are excellent)  but I really like my QSI Titans.  Here are two examples:  NJCB 2-4-4-2 Modernized and an OMI Whitcomb re-motored.  The Whitcomb ran that slow w/o ANY adjustment of CV's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuFtif8UL_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrvrQ7_Cznc

Peter

Peter, thanks for the videos.  Excellent low speed performance and sound.  Are your QSI Titans, the Q2 or Q3/ET versions? Bill

They are the Titan with the Q3 files that feature "ET" emulator technology.  I am very happy with the QSI decoders as they will handle a constant 1.5 amps with short excursions to 2.0.  Most of my Standard O scale locomotives run between .8 and 1.2 amps.  I kept my Tsunamis in Narrow gauge On30 locomotives.    Thanks,

Peter

Just received advice from QSI that they have released a Winton 201 sound file of the ET variety.  According to my research, the EMD E1 and E2's at least started with this motor, as did most of the "Streamliners".

I haven't tried any ESU decoders as yet, but have 22 diesels powered by QSI  decoders on the railroad.  Six are the higher amp Titan magnum version that come in Sunset diesels, 14 are the relatively low cost 1.8 continuous 2 amp stall decoders I installed in brass diesels.  I monitor the current draw of new installations and have found that under heavy load (35 cars, 2.2% grade) they operate comfortably around 1.5 amp/ unit.  The closest to spec installation of a 1.8 amp decoder was in a dual motor China drive series wired AtlasO Erie-built drawing  A-B-A drawing 1.75 amp/ unit at startup on the  grade. They've been running great for several years - even standing up for long hours of open house "display" mode running. 

I use QSI's Programmer on an old laptop for initial decoder installation.   I've also used the Programmer to replace the Q2 sound sets in Sunset 3rd rail diesels with the latest Q3 ones - a dramatic improvement. 

After completing several higher priority scenery projects later this year I plan to get back to installing sound decoders in the steam roster.  In the meantime most of my steam locomotives are running without sound using NCE D408SR decoders.  Three high efficiency/low current draw Key 2-8-0's are running nicely with 1 amp SoundTraxx Tsunami decoders.  The holdup on steam sound decoder installs related to whether or not cams were needed to time the chuff (Key PRR 2-8-0's come with cams on the rear driver).  Several friends have reported success using back EMF/chuff timing CV's on QSI and SoundTraxx decoders to sync the chuff with the rods.  My attempt with an earlier generation QSI decoder to sync using CV settings was not successful.  I plan on installing a QSI 2 amp Titan in a Sunset L1 2-8-2 and run some tests before deciding on a standard decoder to use on the balance of the steam roster. Whatever steam decoder family I standardize on must have both 3 chime and single chime (banshee) representations of PRR whistles.

My decision to use "HO" decoders in O scale locomotives (where current draw allows) is based on 2 factors. The first is I can install the small decoders in the boilers of my locomotives (along with 1.2" speakers in the smoke box)'.  This  reduces the wiring between engine and tender and makes installation and maintenance easier.  The second is to save money.  I have a large roster of locomotives and the cost difference between 1.8 amp sound decoders and 3-4 amp  "large scale" decoders is significant.

I have installed the ESU HO Select Direct in an Atlas GP15, MP15, C425, and a Weaver E8A. With the exception of the horizontal drive MP15, I have rewired the motors in the vertical drives to reduce current draw and improve operation.

I like to think of the ESU decoders as a hard drive onto which I can load any sound file they have. With the ESU programmer, doing this is a breeze.

ESU is updatng their sound files with several new features under the "Full Throttle" name. One neat feature is, by hitting F9, the engine's speed stays the same and the throttle knob now controls engine sound so you can simulate pulling  a heavy train at slow speed. It's pretty neat.

All good info above.  Thanks.

Ed, I've found that dialing in the chuff rate on three Titan ET's has been very straightforward.  I simply started by programming on the main the driver diameter in CV Mgr and then adjusting the diameter a little in one direction or the other to fine tune it.  Holds pretty well over a range of revolutions.  lf it does in fact drift slightly at different revs I can't see it.  The only drawback is that while I get the correct number of chuffs/revolution they  may or may not be in sync with the valve gear.  Using a cam would fix this.  Or magnets and a reed switch on a drive wheel if there's room -- which I've done before.   But, I don't want to deal with the lower reliability of electromechanical devices.  The electronically synched  chuff is good enuff for me.  I can't see the error even if it's there at any speed above a crawl.   Tradeoffs!