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First I want to say I am a York fanatic. I love the whole experience from the opening National Anthem, to the search for items, the OGR get-togethers, the one on one demonstration of products, the availability of products. York is an event unlike anything else anywhere.

Starting at the next meet we have it open to the public. If this last week has shown anything it has shown the meet had to change.

1)The aisles were much wider in Orange and Purple Halls. That means the dealers are disappearing.  I don't know why many dealers decided to not come was it due to personal reasons, economic reasons or are they no longer in business?

2)The crowds were much thinner in Orange and Purple Halls. The member hall's traffic seems to hold their own.

3)At one time it was rare to see earlier than modern era trains in the dealer halls. Yes you had a couple of dealers that had some items but it was predominately new modern trains and train items. That is no longer the case. For the first time I saw lots of second hand trains in Orange Hall. Is this because the dealers are slowing down and not ordering as much from Lionel and MTH or have the dealers been over-loaded with items they are buying from estates? Are they saving their newer trains for the Spring Meet with fresh buyers entering the halls in April.

4)Did dealers and TCA members alike decide to wait until the Spring to show-up due to all the changes?

5)Was the move to add the public soon enough to save the York Meet or is it already too late? Is this a reflection of the decline of the hobby in general, the new normal?

The York meet is is about to change forever. The product mix is going to be different. More than likely we are going to see more low end starter sets for sale for these new consumers. With the public will we see more HO and even N scale for sale?  Will the Eastern Division reach out to HO manufacturers and dealers to come to this Brave New World?

What do the rest of you think?
Scott Smith

 

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I did not notice that the aisles were any wider in Orange, although I did notice some dealers which weren't there.  (Does anyone know what happened to the guy who makes tank farms?)

Noticed a lot more empty tables in the member halls, especially Blue & Silver.

Lots more folks with mobility issues.  Should eliminate one row of tables in each member hall and widen the aisles.

Also did not see as much recent production being blown out - I wonder if the manufacturing volumes are lower.

What makes you think things will be any different in April? Unless someone will be paying to run a lot of "open to the public" advertising, who will show up?

As far as I could see, the aisles, with dealers sitting in them, were still a pain in the neck in the dealer halls. I also noticed a number of people holding up traffic while "playing" with their hand-helds (asking the wife for permission to buy something?). Yes, I noted the lack of, and need for, arrows in the Orange Hall. Seemed pretty much the same York to me since 1984.

Opening to the public in April isn't going to change much at all if they don't promote promote promote. Radio, TV etc. Even then, you think people are going to travel to the middle of no where for a train swap meet? I just don't see it happening. All the photos I have seen here and all over social media looked like a very thin crowd, no matter the day.

Middle of nowhere?  Maybe folks on the east coast are spoiled.  I've often driven 3.5 hours each way for a good train meet, and I've known people to drive much farther than that.  If you draw a 3 hour circle around the largest train meet on the planet, it includes a lot of people.

I don't know if opening to the public will have the desired results (if anyone can even articulate what the "desired results" are), but you've gotta try.

Time will tell.  I'm sorry to state I was guilty this meet of contributing to one empty table in Red.  I had a large surge in effort at work recently that just didn't let me prepare enough to bring stuff with me to sell.  I did still manage to attend though, so hopefully my purchases helped others a bit.

I heard of a few dealers whining about the extra 2 hours on Saturday, but I doubt for most that will tip the point of them not showing up at all.

-Dave

Last edited by Rich Melvin

Greenberg and other local shows in the area are reasonably well attended, so if 20-30% of those folks make the trip to York it would seem to be a worthwhile effort. Whether the same number of folks can be turned into dues-paying members is another matter...it would seem doubtful.

Maybe I was travelling in a bubble, but it seemed that this York was pretty crowded. I had to drive around for a bit Friday AM to find a parking spot...first time that's happened in a loooong while.

PD

 

Geez the EDTCA just can't do right by some of you.  Up until 3 years ago it was status quo.  At least this leadership team is trying.  It may not work but they are trying.  Some of you guys should try to run a train meet the size of York and see how easy it is and then have everyone else tell you how to run it.  

 

They are trying, shouldn't we do our part and promote, encourage, and attend if able?

York will evolve just as the hobby has the past 30 years.  I will go and support it. It is more than a show, it is and has been an event for years. The top 10 percent spend the most money at York , all the big boys better bring more creative layouts to the show if they are trying to lure the public into the hobby,remember the wow of the showroom layouts, what is there now is terrible. Even OGR and its Ameritowne line could create a display that triggers the imagine to build an affordable home layout, not just piles of building kits in a booth. These examples of displays can show the public the apps and at the same time encourage growth of the hobby. The orange hall will need a combination of dealers and layouts to lure and repeat foot traffic on the public days of York. Let it be said,I love York!

dk122trains posted:

 all the big boys better bring more creative layouts to the show if they are trying to lure the public into the hobby,remember the wow of the showroom layouts, what is there now is terrible. Even OGR and its Ameritowne line could create a display that triggers the imagine to build an affordable home layout, not just piles of building kits in a booth. These examples of displays can show the public the apps and at the same time encourage growth of the hobby. The orange hall will need a combination of dealers and layouts to lure and repeat foot traffic on the public days of York.

That I do agree with.  The dealer and manufacturers were the ones asking for this change, rightfully so, but they need to now do their part with displays reminiscent of 5-6 years ago.  The Apps should be something displayed because when the public comes in with the kids, they're the ones who will be holding their smart phones. The other important thing will to engage the public.  Go to them, don't wait for them to come to you.  

 MTH has always done a great job at App presentation along with Bachmann.

Last edited by MartyE

My observation is that the Halls I was in while I was in them were fairly crowded Thursday, Friday and even today Saturday.  Admittedly i don't spend my precious time at the Meet to monitoring attendance volume, I have fun hunting for layout items, trains and socializing.   Several vendors I asked told me it was a great Meet or the best Meet they've ever had!  

I've said on all the threads here about the non-member public attending the York Meet that I don't know where they will come from or how much of a difference it will make. Most O gauge model train enthusiasts in the region already attend. But even if they do increase attendance, will they be buyers?  A Greenberg's Show is held in January in what is the Orange Hall and it is sparsely attended.  And it only covers about half of the building. It costs less, no membership required and the public stays away, even with the local advertising. 

The proposed changes will not affect my enjoyment of the York Meet. The TCA Eastern Division does a phenomenal job in organizing and hosting the Meet. I find train items I want and need every time and have so much fun seeing friends and making new ones. They can invite whomever they want. I'm happy that they invite me to their marvelous toy train event. 

MartyE posted:

...................That I do agree with.  The dealer and manufacturers were the ones asking for this change, rightfully so, but they need to now do their part with displays reminiscent of 5-6 years ago.  .................

+1.  The major displays both Lionel an MTH created when thy were still trying to out-do each other at York (prior to their unofficial gentleman's agreement to scale it down so each could save money attending the meet)should be pulled out of moth balls at least for next April's York to help maximize the impressive nature of the meet for any public attendees who have never been there before.

-Dave

With regard to the parking comment above, as I've said elsewhere, I have found parking more crowded Thursday mornings the last several Yorks, than previously.  I had better, not good, but better parking Friday morning.  I noticed the wider aisles, and the empty tables, too, which seem a contradiction....buyers are showing up, but dealers aren't?   When I am lucky, the Strasburg O scale show, and the Timonium scale show are on the weekends of York week.  I have attended both before while at York and they are not unattended....has their attendance dropped off?  There was a time, when I was finding stuff, that I would attend any train show within reasonable, and sometimes beyond, reasonable reach.  If people that close to Timonium KNOW (advertising, flyers, published announcements) the show is going on, they will attend, at least once....maybe not after they discover it is not all HO or N. In this hobby of tinplate trains, and in other hobbies I am familiar with, the people with the interest discover where the big  and relevant shows are.  I doubt if many will be brought in unless it is well advertised.  I am not finding much in York in old trains of interest to me...these seem to have gone to the internet auctions; the few remaining manufacturers seem to have fallen back into the pre-Williams mode....nothing new of interest to me. except for a stray car or two, is being produced. I did not make as many circuits of all the halls as usual and left earlier than usual.  I, for several Yorks, have not thought it worth the trip for those two reasons.  (personal problem, maybe)

Traindiesel posted:

... I've said on all the threads here about the non-member public attending the York Meet that I don't know where they will come from or how much of a difference it will make. Most O gauge model train enthusiasts in the region already attend. But even if they do increase attendance, will they be buyers?  A Greenberg's Show is held in January in what is the Orange Hall and it is sparsely attended.  And it only covers about half of the building. It costs less, no membership required and the public stays away, even with the local advertising....

 

Well, Traindiesel, central PA's January weather doesn't harken many folks to venture out much, especially when coupled with the post holidays fatigue and its associated symptoms that many feel during January so it's no surprise the Greenberg crowd is sparse. I'd guess if the present format of the TCA October meet was moved to January that it wouldn't fare much better than the Greenberg show you mentioned. I especially wonder how many tables and attendees would be in the member halls considering the aging demographics of TCA members and the inclination of that age group to either spend the deep winter months in southern areas with warmer climates or for the ones who spend January in the northern colder climates to stay put in their warm homes and travel as little as possible during the uncertain, generally inclement and certainly cold month of January. 

Last edited by ogaugeguy

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