Discussion on Magazine Format and Content

 Have you ever read a bad product review? Product reviews are subjective.  I would like to see a follow up on product reviews at a later date maybe in an electronic form or newsletter email, I understand the print cycle wouldn't favor this format.

 

Product reviews for model trains are like automobile reviews "here is the latest and greatest technology and news". I do believe George Brown does an excellent job reviewing and I do remember on occasion he has done a follow up review on a locomotive a year later. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

I do enjoy the layout reviews more so with OGR then CTT. OGR seems to have more substance, the other which is ok seems to be more window dressing. As for large layouts I do enjoy reading about them. I do know that some Model Railroad publishing firms do include electronic video or extras about construction etc.. that is not possible to fit into a print magazine.

My problem is that I lag behind in the reading curve. Subsequently, I have my own stored "back issues" yet to read and then receive still another magazine. I like the "how to's on basics", the review of products, and, YES, the ads. What I don't care for so much is looking at pictures and reading about somebody else's $30,000.00 layout. I just cannot relate.

 

I think all-in-all the periodicals referred to in the OP do a great job.

 

When you put out a hobby magazine year, after year, after year, after year it HAS to be hard to keep it fresh.

 

Let's try to stay on the positive side of this.

 

Rule #1. - Trains are FUN!

OK troops. How about a suggestion or two for OGR?

 

Years ago, Hot Rod Magazine had a monthly feature "It Worked for Me". Write up your solution, send pictures, winner gets $25 and 15 seconds of fame on the last page of the magazine.

 

or... how many of us are actually buying new engines and rolling stock? With all the new products introduced each year, it would be impossible for OGR staffers to evaluate even a small percentage of them. Do your own review and send it in. Please keep in mind that most if not all of the manufacturers are also advertisers in OGR. Any review would have to be as objective as humanly possible. 

 

Gilly

I guess we all have different perspectives.  While I like the idea of maybe more "how to" articles, I enjoy OGR Magazine.  I am not a "techie" and articles on how to rewire a locomotive, or the "positive and negatives" of transformer power put me to sleep.  I just read Run #274 from cover to cover.  I enjoy anecdotal stories about people and their trains.  I enjoy seeing pics not only of people's layouts but of buildings and "train scenes" that they have built.  I like reading about experiences people have had with real trains, layouts and their model trains.

 

Matt

A lot of interesting feedback.  Sounds like – so far – many people here would welcome a change to the current format and content.  A couple of observations and my opinion on some of the comments:

• I didn’t immediately realize it, but I totally agree with the person who commented about how much in-depth “how to” articles contribute to a valuable publication.  As a child, I had a subscription to M R, and it had great in-depth articles with photos, diagrams and lots of step-by-step instruction.  Contrary to Lee Willis’ comment, all this did was foster a stronger desire to actually build my own empire.  Don’t agree that in-depth “how to” articles are the wrong path because this will “scare people off.”  Many of the people buying these magazines want to (or are already) building layouts and probably hunger for these articles.  I submit it’s a lot more evolved (and will help foster hobby growth) to help people – by offering in-depth information and advice from pros – than to pedantically decide to keep them in the dark.  All this would accomplish is to lose readers, as the desire for information doesn't go away.  The reader simply determines that the magazine is of little value and never looks back, relying exclusively on other tools (like the web).  Isn’t this the same mentality people had like 50 years ago?  The patient is dying, but don’t tell the patient because he won’t be able to handle the news. Ha!
• Regarding the comment – if I want better articles, I should write them myself - isn’t this exactly what’s already happening?  Everyone (subjectively) thinking they’re contribution is of a high standard?  In any event, I find this to be a common theme among some people: “it’s my job to do your job.” (…if I don’t completely agree with the way you’re doing your job).  To me, this is a sort of cop-out response.  I mean, take it to its logical conclusion:  if I think Fords (or Chevys or whatever) rattle, should I take a day off from work, go to Ford’s facility and start turning wrenches because I think I can do a better job?  In real life, if we aren’t satisfied with a consumer product, we voice our opinions and hope the people at the helm are listening and make adjustments.  Or we vote with our dollars.  
• Apparently, these magazines don’t have the resources of many other publications in terms of a professional staff that goes out, researches and writes most of the content in the magazines? Even if so, this is sort of beside the point.  The point is that the content in the magazines is there because it meets the publisher’s standard – and this standard is what’s being discussed.

Peter

To me, the bottom line is "what am I getting for my limited $$ " ???  When I can enjoy a magazine that is 30 years old(Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette 1985) that cost $3.25 and the articles are still relevant, informative and well written, I think there is something missing in the current market.  One layout article that was terrible sticks in my mind, I think it was in CTT(which I buy), the guy was big in the Boy Scouts at one time and this was  carried all through the article.

Scrounger's Corner, and Old and Rare were my first two stops. I still go over the old issues to reread them. And Dr Tinker's tips were next.

Both major mags are OK, and both do too many layout articles for my taste, and too few (or the same) product reviews. Ideally I'd prefer the format to be more like a car mag - lots of road tests and photos. I don't read layout articles (OK, a few), and I'm more equipment oriented; I have mentioned Mainline Modeler as the mag I miss - it was not layout-centered (and it's dead, so there you are...).

 

I have noticed a pattern - and I'm not sure where - that a layout feature will be bragged about - but, try as I might, I find photos of everything BUT that one. Annoying.

 

I would like shots of wiring and benchwork, too. Less "...I got my first set at Christmas when I was X years old..." (who didn't?) and more "here's the DCS wiring pattern that

Sam mentioned". But, really, writing about this stuff just HAS to get repetitive. 

 

There is only so much you can say about this subject of model/toy trains, I guess.

And older guys like me have read it all, perhaps. I don't read ANY hobby mags like I used to, and that includes the automobile hobby. I used to devour that stuff, but now I'm down

to Car and Driver (and Velocity Channel!). Younger people have bigger appetites, and

so much is new to them. Me? Been there, done that, as we said in the 90's. 

 

I still enjoy it, though, and I hope that both O-mags (and the rest) just keep on going,

Christmas train set stories notwithstanding. I'll muddle through.

 

At the risk of sounding like I'm complaining when I'm not meaning to, "Scrounger's Corner" was my favorite OGR column ever.  The detractors seemed to think it was about doing stuff because you were cheap, but to me it was about ingenius solutions to modeling problems that went beyond writing big checks to have stuff appear.  That's the most appealing part of model railroading to me.

I think the engine reviews have very limited value.  Let's face it, they are all positive (and I get that the magazines don't want to upset their advertisers) so their value is limited at best.  Plus we're all going to buy or not buy an engine based on our own likes and dislikes.  Reading a review is not going to change that. 

 

Perhaps the product reviews could be geared toward product advancements (ie: a new or upgraded operating system, new features or accessories, or niche products from smaller vendors, etc) and any extra pages which might go unused could be used to include more pictures of reader layouts.

 

One thing I like about OGR is the large and clear pictures included in their features.   It's the one thing which keeps me from subscribing to a competing magazine as well - their pictures are way too small imho.

 

--Greg

 

 

 

I'd encourage anyone who has an idea to send an outline to either of the two magazines to determine their interest.  By submitting just an outline, you don't invest so much time and effort.  And who doesn't have a digital camera nowadays?  That so simplifies things.  For my first two articles years ago, I hired photographic help rather than deal with film speed, f-stops, etc.!  Don't fret about your technical ability: The mags have folks who can straighten out sentences, spelling and grammar.  Each of the two major pubs have turned me down once.  But I have to say, CTT has been good to me.  And you get $$ for your efforts!

 

The first rule of journalism that was taught to me when I took it as a class way back when was:  "A good journalist (or reporter) goes out and finds the story, they don't wait for the story to come to them."

 

Otherwise you either wind up with no story, or you end up reading about it from a competing publisher.

Between the OGR Magazine & the OGR Forum with over 20 various train related subjects what more could you ask for. I read the magazine cover to cover & and check the forum daily, sometimes twice a day. Life is good as is.

Captain John, I think you summed this up pretty well. We just received our December issue of OGR and it is simply outstanding. I typically read the Editorial Page first and in the December issue Allan has outdone himself. I thoroughly enjoyed reading his history of the PE and Lionel trains. Extremely well written and hits home for many of us. Well done Allan!!!!!

I think part of the problem is that the two magazines are a bit different than let's say MR, which is focused on scale model railroading entirely. In our universe, we have the collectors, who go for things like Roger Carp's articles, we have those who are into tinplate/'toy' style layouts, we have those who love the bell's and whistles of command control engines and such. It is only the hi rail portion of our community that is really akin to MR, and I think some of the comments were from those who come from this portion. 

 

The problem is the magazines have the broader audience in mind, so they can't please everyone, while some may want to see detailed how to articles, details on layout building predominate, a lot of other people might find that boring, it is all about balance. I do think there could be more on the how to, on some of the tricks and techniques like you see in MR as it relates to three rail, but I usually am pretty happy with the current format of both magazines, I enjoy the mix of things, people's stories and so forth. 

 

To me, they are what they are.   I buy three or four every month.  some, like OGR, are much better in some issues - as observed the Christmas issue is always good.   Others tend to have articles or features I like better.   I get the Hornby mags most for the ads and to see what its like in the other half of the world.  

 

I do like the engine reviews, even though as Greg Houser says they are always positive, you sometimes can pick up on issues or get an impression - the difference between "It has adequate pull for a locomotive its size" and "This is one of the best pullers we've seen this year." means the first is a dog, etc.  

Interesting analogy.  I guess I never understood why some folks here insist on perpetuating the idea that we are "guests" in someone's house on this forum.  The reality is it's become a bonafide extension of the OGR brand... In other words, it's a business, however so subtle.  True, there is no monetary cost to join as a "regular" member.  But an increasing number of folks pay a modest fee akin to a subscription price to be "premium" members.  

 

OGR gets a substantial amount of free content right here, and the number of sponsors has grown substantially in the past year.  So in many ways, the forum has become an extension of the OGR magazine itself, and a growing number of sponsors are definitely taking the opportunity to mine the audience for sales.

 

As a result, I view the occasional constructive criticisms here much like the editorial/opinion page of a printed newspaper or magazine.  Comes with the territory.  Think of it as additional content that generates even further content for more discussion.

 

As you also pointed out, editors love feedback.  

 

David

To me the magazines are just for entertainment purposes.I get what I need from this forum,period.

PJB,

 

It looks like you are in Connecticut. Why not come to the Open House of the Munoz Lines

Saturday, November 15. We'll have lots of trains, food, and fun and I'll show you how the Munoz Lines operates. Wiring, too, if you insist.

 

Eliot "Scrapiron" Scher

I think CTT started in 1978 and OGR at that time was mostly scale with a little O gauge 3 rail. Model Railroader would have one or two 3 rail layouts featured a year and that was it. There was nothing essentially for O gauge 3 rail. and no internet.

Be super glad of what we have now.

Every issue can't be all things to all people.

 

The best an editor can do is select articles that cover most aspects of the hobby over the course of a year or two of magazine issues.

 

That is why the digital magazine archive (or saving printed back issues) is recommended.

 

Over the course of a two year subscription, for example, a reader will see everything from benchwork, to wiring, to scenery, to construction projects, etc.

 

The same is true for reviews. Over a period of time, you will see reviews for products in various price ranges.

 

The size of each issue is controlled by the amount of advertising sold to support it.

 

Check the contents of the upcoming January issue (on one of the last pages of the December issue) for some how-to features that look interesting.

 

Jim

 

Speaks volumes as to why this forum has evolved to what we see today... both in terms of membership as well as paid-advertising sponsorship.  

 

Years/decades ago, there was an understandable aura and sense-of-accomplishment about one's content (i.e., article or feature layout) being published in a magazine... because those magazines were THE way of reaching the masses.  But that underlying premise has changed entirely nowadays.  

 

Today, one can post away here with all kinds of content, some of which whose topics would be considered magazine-worthy in days gone by -- without compensation, of course.    On the other hand, life is much more informal here vs. adhering to the more formal guidelines required of articles going to press in print media.  And for some folks so inclined, the power of the internet provides the capability for them to start their own website or blog that documents the day-by-day or week-to-week progress of building their dream layout in its various stages of development.  There's virtually no end to the creative outlets available today to share one's work outside the formal structure of a printed magazine!  

 

As Dorothy so innocently stated in The Wizard of Oz over 75 years ago,  "We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto."  

 

David

I agree with everything Greg Houser says above.

 

- All reviews are positive. This is not really all that helpful if the reader is looking for help making a buying decision. Also, there is very little comparative data presented.  

 

- Let the pictures tell the story! For example, CTT featured Jack Smith's excellent layout recently. I would have been happy to see half as much text and twice as many photos, printed much larger so we can study composition and details of layout scenes. OGR had a story about Mr. Smith many years ago and I saved that issue, specifically for the pictures.

 

We can all find ten million words online for free, if we want that. Magazines can still provide a "photo album" experience that's valuable in its own way, along with editorial access to vendors that the rest of us don't have.

 

Thanks,

Alan P.

Eliot,

 

That would be GREAT!  Let me check to see if the wife doesn't have the weekend already planned out. Appreciate the invite - where is this event happening?  I'm up near Hartford.  Peter

Ever notice how few Lionel product reviews there are in CTT. Think Kalmbach has a for the most part a policy of only reviewing products sent to them by the producer/importer. OGR has a good balance of product reviews and excellent reviews they are by George Brown. Sent critical email to the CTT editor about the lack of Lionel reviews but got no reply.

I think the posts are deleted for controversial content, which is up to the moderators discretion as stated in the rules. Personally I think they do a good job of policing the forum and keeping order around here. Without that I don't think this forum would be as good as it is today. I think a lot of members would leave and we would be the ones losing out on all their knowledgeable posts leaving us with a much less interesting place to visit. I have been on other un-moderated forums and I definitely prefr this one to any of those I have ever been on and I didn't hang around long too long either.

 

I have used the names of other magazines and ebay and all the other things you can't say on here and don't recall ever having a post deleted because of that. I think this thread is a pretty good example of that, at least with the mention of other magazines.

While it is occasionally frustrating to see your comments deleted, I believe the moderators do an excellent job overall. The greater good is a forum filled with useful information, civilized discourse, no outrageous name-calling, profanity or bullying. And we get all this free, paid for by OGR and its sponsors.

 

The proper structure enhances the freedom of the great majority and the moderators provide it. I may not agree with them every time, but I accept the terms of use, look at the overall result and respect their right to run the forum in a manner that promotes beneficial discussion. If I felt very strongly about a comment that was deleted or held for approval (as my earlier post on this thread was) I would take it up privately with the moderator.

 

The forum is privately owned and operated and it is also an asset of OGR, which the owner has the right to protect.

 

This has been a very positive discussion about the magazine, so let's go back there and take discussion of the moderators to a new thread if others feel this merits further discussion.

 

 

That's really what I was trying to say above, only you said it so much better, thank you!

 

That is another problem with typed messages, some say things much better than others and the written word can easily be taken for something it was truly not meant to be.

OGR is my preferred magazine, but I do enjoy reading both OGR and CTT. I also read MR, Garden Railways and N-Scale. All of these last three MR, GR, and N-Scale magazines have feature in each issue of some type of electronics project that could be used with our hobby. MR is mostly DCC, GR has quite a variety as does N-Scale. I think I have been the most impressed with the N-Scale articles by Bob Kendall, who I believe has been doing these articles for them for quite some time. I have only read a few issues of N-Scale, so I can't be certain of this, but he has had an article in every issue in the last year or so.

 

Something like this is one thing I would like to see in OGR. Command control and electronics are becoming a big part of our hobby. Many in this thread have mentioned wiring, lighting and other things as potential subjects for articles. I think this would be a good addition to OGR and I know I would enjoy something like this in each issue and I think others would as well.

 

This is also my personal preference and I realize everyone else will have a different personal preference for what they would like to see and no one magazine can have everything for everyone in every issue.

I have subscribed to both OGR and CTT since 1989 and read both cover to cover, keeping issues that contain articles that are of particular interest to me. 

That said, KJ356 hit on something regarding CTT that I have commented on when they asked me to complete a reader survey; specifically that Roger Carp seems to write every layout article.  And, while I especially like Roger's writing style in CTT's special interest publications, it becomes incredibly repetitious when he writes the majority of the layout articles. 

And this one thing is, to me at least, what distinguishes OGR from CTT.  In OGR, the layout builder or a friend writes the article and takes the accompanying photos.  This makes for a wonderful diversity in writing styles that keeps OGR fresh.

I think both magazines do a good job of reviewing new products although George Brown's reviews in OGR are more in depth than those Bob Keller's  in CTT.  Doesn't mean I favor one over the other however, as both gentlemen have, on the strength of their prose, convinced me I had to have something on more than one occasion.

Curt

a couple of points:

1. About 10 months ago I submitted an article to OGR About building the TMB club layout, At the time of the article and the accompanying photos it was pretty much about the bench work and  track laying. We were not close to running a train. In April, I approached Alan Miller and he remembered the submission and said it has gotten some consideration. Not sure how long the consideration period is but of course I hope it get published as it does show a different side of a layout. 

 

2. There was a point raised earlier in the thread about articles featuring $30,00 layouts one can not relate to. Well I share this dream or envy. In joining a club, I am able to get that, in building 4,000 square foot layout where the cost and labor is shared amongst the membership. Of course you need to learn on key word in this environment "compromise", and in the end I am always surprised by the creativity talents others bring and how that helps me grow.

 

3. Publish your own article right here on the forum. There are other areas in particular the "Scenery"  and "TMCC/DCS" where there is some of the content that is being requested is displayed with step by step development. Maybe not the end all answer someone is looking for but there is always the opportunity to respond or email a content provider with questions or to take a deeper dive into the posting. This forum gives us all the opportunity to express our selves right here. So why not start experimenting with some mini articles 200-300 words with pictures right here. If Alan does not publish my article, (so I am not crushed with the rejection, just kidding), I just might do so here.

 

Isn't this GREAT !!!!

 

Kind Regards

Steve

 

 

You are right!  It is great.  Some comments.

1) Based on my experience (I'm 1 for 2 on articles requested by OGR and that I spoke about with Alan and seemed headed for publication) I'd say you have a 30% to 50% chance of seeing it in print.  Needs change, editors are hard pressed and OGR only has certain resources.  Based on my and the experience of friends, I'd say they look hard at and even with work two to three as many articles as finally get published.  

 

2) I love  articles about expensive grand layouts, they are interesting, and I certainly can't blame an editor for wanting to do an artical on something.  Its like the car magazines: we all read the articles on Bugattis and McClarens, then go buy Chevys and Fords that are never reviewed.

 

3) This forum, in my opinion, is a superior source of information and "sharing" of articles, etc., and it is my preferred place now.   Between here and my own website, where I post things to download, I really have little intention of doing more magazine articles.  Why? They take a lot more work, have months of lead time, and this is such a better venue . . . 

 

Your article on just the bench work and track laying sounds interesting to me. I think this would be a good idea for the magazines to show some layouts in the construction stages. As you say, not all of us can afford a $30,000 or more layout, or to hire someone to build one for us, and not all of us have completed layouts like are shown in the magazines. On the professionally built layouts, it would also be good to see some of the techniques used by the pros when building a layout. That is if they don't mind showing us some of their tricks. I think we sometimes get more from an incomplete layout than a completed one. I know they are never complete, but you get the idea, many appear to be complete in the articles.

 

I think we all get to different stages of layout construction where we say 'gee, I have this done, now what should I do next and how should I do it?'. We all have visions of a layout, but not all of us have the complete vision of the one that we really want to end up with. Personally I have many ideas from this forum and layout articles in magazines that I would like to duplicate on my layout, but sometimes it's hard to select from all the ideas to fit into my limited space and budget. It would be nice to hear what others have done in these situations.

 

Forgot to add to my above post that this forum is a great asset to both OGR and us as hobbyists. I have learned more here than I have from all the magazines I have read since I got back into the hobby a few years ago. This forum is a great substitute for any missing how-to articles in the magazines. And if you can't find a how-to on what you are looking for, just ask and someone will most likely provide one for you!

 

I have followed several of the build threads here and really enjoyed the builders commenting on all the things the had accomplished, had trouble with, had to re-do, etc. Many could fill an entire magazine or even a book and are way too much for just one article, but they are available right here on the forum. As an added benefit, you can actually ask questions about their techniques or materials & methods used or other items and they will actually reply back to you with a lot of good information. Another thing you can't do with a magazine article.

 

Not sure how to recommend this forum to anyone that isn't currently a member, but I would highly recommend it to anyone and everyone.

 

I think ALL printed magazines are struggling with this reality... which is why we likely see OGR transitioning its ad base to the online world (in the form of this forum for now).  In fact, at the rate sponsors are coming on board here, I'd be cautious that the pace is outgrowing the sponsor banner real-estate at the top of the page.  I'm already a bit dizzy-eyed watching ads blink, so I often avoid looking at the top of the page.  I suggested in a different thread quite some ago that all ads either be static (single-image) or multi-image with smooth fades rather than hard cuts.  But that post was eventually deleted.   Some ads already implement smooth fades, and they are much more "friendly on the eye" -- at least to my eyes.   Nonetheless, expect ad space concepts to evolve here over time, as required to be most effective.  But a concentrated array of ads with content changing via hard cuts is not optimal even now much less so as more sponsors come on board.

 

For now, it's probably wise that sponsors keep one foot planted in both printed and online media.  But I suspect we'll see a day when the printed magazine will be retired.  The raw business numbers will determine when this happens.

 

On a related note... Years ago, lots of folks balked at the idea of spending $$$ to participate on the forum.  But as time passes and the value of being here increases, those very same folks may see things in a different light.  Sponsors already see the advantage of paying for visibility here.  And premium memberships have access to exclusive content already.

 

Do you see a pattern forming here? 

 

David

Roy,

 

I completely understand your point.  In reality, the "finished" layouts you see in magazines (any magazine) were built after many twists, turns, decisions, revisions, fits and starts, "sturm und drang", and lots of effort.  There's a tendency to report the "good", while glossing over (or totally ignoring) the "bad" and the "ugly".     That's just human nature, I guess.

 

One of the things I've done in my ongoing thread about my layout (https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...r-panhandle-division) is provide a running gun battle (if you will) on its construction.  This often includes what didn't work as well as what I ultimately chose as a solution.  It isn't always compelling reading and sometimes gets into the weeds or minutae, but my intent is to tell it like it is.  There are three reasons for this:

1. It may help someone else going through the same thing.  Sometimes it's important to know what didn't work as well as what did.  Maybe I can prevent someone's headache.
2. People see what I'm doing and make suggestions, keeping me from screwing up or going down a less than useful path.  I like seeing what people have done with the problem I'm facing.  The conversations add to the fun of the hobby.  And by no means do I think I've got all the answers - far from it.
3. It helps me from repeating my mistakes.  The act of writing something down helps me (hopefully ) learn from my mistakes.  Next time I attempt something similar, I will have a body of notes (if not knowledge) that I can scan for guidance.

George

 

The blunt truth is that as much as I enjoy the forum as well as certain issues of the magazine, it is not the lynch pin of my participation of the hobby. It is an adjunct or side interest and this is more so in terms of the rising cost of anything you care to mention.

While I appreciate the forum, the posts by advertisers in the forum versus those of the readership is a mild distraction when subscribers or readers posts are bumped due to them in addition to the fast changing ad banners that you have to have speed dialing fingers to hit just right. Its almost too much...an overload.  Just as I enjoy certain issues of the magazine, the same applies to topics. I don't read every post. Some are helpful, some are redundant, or show and tell. My point is there is no perfect world especially in business and this is a business and we are consumers regardless of the camaraderie some enjoy. We chose the topics here except for the ads as posts and the same largely applies to the magazine content in reader submissions. Hobby magazines exist in their own universe regardless of what hobby they cover.Again they are an adjunct to the hobby in my opinion and not the hobby itself.

Sometimes I think this basic fact gets lost or blown out of proportion as to the importance of content ..this versus that.

The link to your layout thread doesn't work. I am interested in reading it, could you post a better link? I like the layout build threads, lots of help for us rookies.

 

Thanks

 

Just go to the OGR Photo Forum and look for the topic PRR Panhandle Division.  It's near the top.

 

George

 

Thanks, found it!