Do "Road Specific" Details Matter To You?

Yes, I want the correct road details but often I find myself on the no side of the equation.  The factors that influence this for me are the cost of the item, the higher the price the more details should be correct; the rarity of the item in the specific road name desired; the uniqueness of the item. 

However, I seem to have the ability to not be consistent in applying these requirements to my purchases and still find some happiness yet other desires remain unfulfilled. 

Examples of happiness are my SD35 in SP with the correct red light in the nose when running in reverse.  The MTH BNSF with heritage covered hoppers even though the hoppers are the wrong type.  Yet I still want a correct Northern Pacific Yellowstone Steam engine with either Legacy or DCS and the past offers from MTH and Lionel have not met the "detail correctness" level.    

I want to weigh in on the dome cars. Most east coast RRs did not have domes. They don't fit in the tunnels and lets face it the E coast doesn't have the wide open scenery to look at. Don't give me a dome in a Pennsy set. (Or a NYC, N&W,  NH etc) It's ok to offer a separate sale dome for those who want one.

  They only matter to me on the few railroads that I'm familiar enough with to know the difference. I don't want to have to learn about every railroad in the universe so the correctness of the details of  most models don't affect me one way of the other.If I like the looks I'll buy them and if not I won't .......DaveB

I did when I was in HO. Spent most of my time worrying about in service dates and details for my LIRR interest that I never got any model railroading done.

Bought some K-Line and MTH LIRR tradiional sized (but hardly accurate) and am having fun building a layout and running my trains. Just about all tradional sized, not very accurate but great fun.

Scotie

This guy is my role model.

This is my ultimate fear.

One point on diesels that is more than a detail is the annoying MTH practice of selling cab units ONLY in ABA sets, regardless of how the railroads employed them in real life. With passenger units especially, there are ABA sets out there for railroads that never owned a B unit. Those of us with smaller layouts have to leave the B unit in the box to keep train length down. The FT's were only sold in ABA sets, although most FT's were in drawbar-coupled AB pairs. Very few add-on B units were made, so it can be pretty difficult to put together a proper ABBA set if you didn't pre-order. And yes, I know a few railroads ran FT's in ABA configuration - but the vast majority ran as ABBA, or sometimes just a single AB pair. 

Another point a couple of people have raised is that rising expectations go with rising prices. Lionel's diesel prices are close to 3rd Rail territory, and MTH aren't cheap either. Steam engine prices are even higher. Paying those prices, we expect more detail and more fidelity to prototype. I will put up with things on a $300 engine that I will not consider on a $700 engine.

I'm not familiar enough with any prototype to know the difference.

Jeff Davis

If you do not want road specific details, I thought that is what Lionchief and Railking lines were for?

If it is going to be in the Premier, Legacy or Atlas Master Line, I fully expect it to have road specific details.

Maybe they can include extras in the box (like they do with the snowplow) because it's impossible to get an exact match on factory paint.

They did when I was modeling just 1 RR (Seaboard Air Line), to the point that frustration was setting in because I could not get what i wanted.

To a certain extent they still do, but since I switched to BPRC the details have started to matter less.  I'm at the point now I wish I was modeling a "fantasy" RR not modeled after any real US RR at all.

Modeling a free-lanced RR, I would make up a RR name and repaint & decal the engines and a few cars for it.  Maybe keep some rolling stock in real RR names, but they could also be re-lettered for other make believe RRs.

With that in mind, detail specific engines would be WHAT I WANT them to be.

Right now I have 7 steam engines modified for BPRC, my 7 diesels may never run again unless I give them to my grand-kids.  Other than some rolling stock and maybe a 5-car Silver Meteor passenger car set (GGD are you listening ) I truly believe I have reached my "needs".

 Let me get this right.

 They were making full dome and short dome, in other names, but made a long dome only, for a road that used short domes?

 Sounds like an overseas language flub (inverted translation?)

 Or a run to eat excess big dome stock.

"Make it "right"", then apply fantasy .

  Finding B units in general used to be tough. My Grandfather bashed them into powered units all the time. (norm 6 to 8 motors in the various A&B headends).

 I take it that selling off B's easily for a decent dollar amt.s, isn't so easy now?

(I get the points too, I'm just trying to dull the jabs, not poke at wounds)

 The domes, maybe not so easy to sell, but I bet you could get someone who doesn't care, to swap for a regular car

(Ok so re-number, separate them, or do just a roof swap if they are built that way(?).

Not quite. The Milwaukee Road had only full-length domes. For several years, MTH made its Milwaukee Road streamlined passenger sets with one short dome included in each five-car set (they don't do that any more; more recent sets don't have a dome car). The full-length Super Dome has always been available in a single pack as an add-on. 

Anyway, that is why every single Milwaukee Road streamlined passenger car I own is a K-Line product, except for an old Lionel traditional size set that doesn't have a dome car. 

Ever read a book from a fiction section in a library?

Engine type aside, how about "almost"? 

 As the GG-1 was being replaced, a group of dreamers kicked around buying them and putting juice back on Henry Ford's old electric tracks (politics, businesses, rail fans, scammers?) It's first, and last stumbling block was the EPA from what I read. 

The above isn't fiction. And it "almost" happened...as in someone tried.

 So, I have a line rule drawing of a GG-1 and I "painted" it in DTI orange.

It hurts to look at in many ways.

But its funny too 

Fun enough that [safety] flag might fly on a GG-1 parked here in Michigan at the "Psketti Plateau stop" someday 

(After I own 1 red & 1 green )

Put your shades on and look below if you dare

Very good to know I have company and there are now two of us.

Yes and no.  I want only locomotives that the road actually ran, with correct numbers.  NYC did not have six axle diesels (other than passenger units).  They definitely didn't have a DD35!  Their hood units didn't have dynamic brakes. (other than a single GP35)

PRR hood units did have dynamic brakes.  They also had cab signal equipment on the side of the short hood.  They never had a GP38.

Some things must be done correctly from the factory.  Some details can be added by the modeler.  But it is essential that the obvious items be done correctly from the factory.

Tom

 This is not meant to belittle, I don't really know Jack either, but only to point out: If the "wrong" effort is made too often, or exclusively, how can anyone really be expected to learn even a little bit from what they see in RR modeling?

B.g.*  I don't really want a Dick & Jane textbook teaching my kids kanooter valves are in trucks and automobiles either. But the Cat in the Hat can do that.  

 *BG-Bull given

I could definitely get on board with an idea like that.

SPSF may be on to something. Manufacturer supplied extra/optional add on detail parts in the box would be a good thing.  

"Manufacturer supplied extra/optional add on detail parts in the box"

   This could work for some situations but not all. Many road variations are things that would require a different shell along with different details. American Models does a pretty good job of enabling the creation many versions of their S scale GP9-GP18 by casting their dynamic brakes, fans, etc. separately and letting the modeler decide which to install. Of course this only appeals to those who don't mind having to finish a model instead of taking it out of a box and running it right away. In reality I've found only a small percentage of hobbyists  worry about these things so the pay off for manufacturers is probably not great enough for them to go to the trouble when a new flashy paint scheme announcement  for an old product can generate new sales at less investment......DaveB

That's what P&D Hobbies did for their F-units and Red Caboose did for their GP9's, along with Highliners in HO for their F-units. 

Atlas O uses the P&D tooling for the F's and GP's.  Athearn uses the Highliners tooling.

Rusty

Bob,

I hear you.

Bob

Yes.

Yes and no.

For example, I want to have obvious "road specific features" on my engines, such as bell location, ditchlights, truck type for diesels, etc, but I really don't care to much if the locomotive has the horn in the wrong location.

Re the thread title...

Not really.

I smiled while reading the commentary above re dome cars on eastern roads.  It brought to mind a very interesting release event many years ago regarding Kato N-scale passenger cars.

Now, if you've ever dabbled in N-scale, you may know that Kato-san is quite keen on creating models that are, indeed, prototype-faithful.  When it comes to passenger cars, he typically is prone to market complete trains...especially in N scale, their principal realm.  So, when Kato first came out with N-scale smooth-side U.S. passenger cars about 30+ years ago, or so, they marketed them in sets of 6 with an add-on set of four, neatly packaged in a 'book-like' snap-cover containers....very sexy.

Well, most of the roads issued had a dome car...as did their prototype.  Having a fondness for the B&O paint scheme and having travelled on that road most summers growing up, I bought the 6+4 sets in that road.  And it had a dome car....not very accurate to the 'squashed' domes that the B&O had on their Capitol Limited and Columbian trains to accommodate clearances.  But it looked fine.

However, I found out that, uniquely,  the Pennsylvania Railroad sets had been released without a dome car...which, of course, was accurate and appropriate.  However, anticipating some disappointment in the market, apparently, a coupon/slip was included in the 6-car set which, if mailed directly to Kato with $$$, would purchase a dome car in that road.  The offer, I believe, was not without an expiration. 

Suffice it to say, those N-scale Kato dome cars in PRR Tuscan are, I'm told, to this day....how shall we  say??...MUY CALIENTE!!

Anyhoo...there's something for everyone in this hobby....even parts, to bling-out that ho-hum generic into a spittin' image of your favorite!

KD (a.k.a., Lucas Gudinov)

Wife has one, Adriatic.

There are more than enough people around here to keep us straight. Lots of folks around here do know the road specific or even engine specific details and even more than that. Also, I don't know about trainman713, but I am too old to start worrying about these things. If I don't know by now I probably never will. Besides the things I do learn around here about the details I usually forget in the next day or so when I learn something else. I think the memory is full and there's no room for expansion.  

 "If the "wrong" effort is made too often, or exclusively, how can anyone really be expected to learn even a little bit from what they see in RR modeling?"

   That's assuming that everyone wants to learn that stuff. However I've found that more hobbyists just want to have some fun and leave the work at their jobs.....DaveB

Part of this loony hobby allegedly is learning something new.  There's a whole tread on the 2-rail side about a detail recently discovered on Santa Fe passenger FT's. 

Apparently, screened openings on the doors on the Santa Fe FT's has gone unnoticed all these decades.  It looks to be an "after-market" modification by the Santa Fe.  If I had a set of passenger FT's, would I worry about it?  No.  Would I expect MTH, 3rd Rail, etc to include the openings?  Not really.  They could now if they wanted to, but the Santa Fe passenger FT's also ran without the door vents.  The dates haven't been nailed down yet.  But still, I learned something new.

Frankly, I feel the door vents blemishes the esthetics of the FT.  I wouldn't rule out buying future SF FT's either with or without the vent openings, though.

Others have differing opinions.

Y'know, way back in the 1970's I "discovered" that most of Santa Fe's passenger F's had stainless steel panels, along with painted steel ends and doors. 

I decided to duplicate this on a set of Athearn F7's using two different silver paints: Pactra Flat Aluminum and Floquil Bright Silver:

Everybody in my club back then thought I was nuts.  It was a detail nobody ever noticed before.  It was a very, very long time before the HO manufactures began duplicating this detail.

Of course, now in out enlightened times, we know better.  (Don't we?) 

Rusty

I'll board that train of thought as well.  Could this concept be used to provide more options or road names for a particular model, for example, a steam engine?  Would it be possible to make a more generic model or the most basic model that was used by some Railroads, but then make add on packages to match the prototypical modifications/add ons that other Railroads made to their engines? If this is possible, I'd be all for "completing the build" on some models that would otherwise never be made.  Maybe this idea needs it own thread?!!

Wonkaland, was Wonkaland, because of the details.

 We can all learn without effort, or even realizing we are learning, if the info is presented to us right. That's a modelers job really, to teach us through our eyes.

 You know a steamer, from a diesel right? Mostly at least I'm sure 

Was that info sought out?

I've lived in both worlds, toy and scale, and seem to catch "it" from both sides too .

   I do flip flop sides. Some would cry troll. But I just want all options to be considered, all "voices" to be heard.

 The wrong way" is quoted for light sarcasm. I know it comes off a little crappy.

(But so does "lighten up and play" )

 Its sarcasm, because that terminology is used by others.... often .

  But only light sarcasm, because I haven't found a better, elegant way, to express that general thought, any more so, than I have for "lighten up and play".

 It boils down to personal stances, and perceptions of the phrase at the moment really.

  Despite my position, if what is written at least provokes thought about both sides of a coin, I'm pretty happy .

  I am a toy lover first and foremost.

But my OCD can see the rivets too.

Not only is the count wrong, but they are shaped and sized wrong often, too.

 Have I mentioned I've been drummed out of an extremely one sided site, for being "the toy guy"? 

 My "modeling" in trains really isn't too serious..

I ran them as fast as I could on the floor for 40 years.

Only slowed them because of table height.

 I was serious about dioramas, and model cars at one time though.

 My modeling advice was good, appreciated, and on occasion, praised.

 Till I stopped showing old stuff, and showed others what I was doing now.  

Then those that loved the advice, turned to attack with rivet guns blazing.

Nothing remotely severe has happened here in any comparison really.

So I "get it" about both sides, as well as from both sides too.

 Someone (Matt?) mentioned the various lines, and what is expected by them as a buyer of a "scale" line.

 I think that his points were right on, and the passion for scale and toys alike would be better served by listening closer to the product lines intended targets, and keeping away from things they should know wont go over well in the scale lines.

(I'm no pro, and I can see this, why cant they seem to?)

 To further evidence my silliness trumps my rivet counting most often, I offer this for consideration....This is train gets ranked #4 for most often ran.

 I think "That is detailed immaturity" is what I was told elsewhere about the engine below.

I kinda like the phrase    

 And the photos didn't post above.???

Oh well, its in other threads.

Hard to miss a cab fwd MPC dockside with a plow, 8-ball number boards, and harlequin paint job. You'll know it when you see it.