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As many of you know, I'm sort of a student of Disney railroad history, having written two books about the trains at Disneyland in California. Because of my association in this regard, I am privy to lots of "inside information," which may or may not be accurate, and which may be fluid, subject to change at any time. So take the following for what it's worth.

 

Of late, there has recently been a rise in the amount of chatter I've been hearing--some coming from very highly-placed sources--that the days of operational steam locomotives at Florida's Walt Disney World will soon to be coming to an end. New diesel-hydraulic locomotives will be built, and the genuine steam locomotives are to be phased out and mothballed over the next few years. Cited reasons for this change are decreased maintenance and personnel costs.

 

I realize that many here perhaps don't look upon the WDW trains as worthy of preservation, as they are merely "amusement park trains." I also realize that there are many people on this Forum who have gone to Disney World and seen first hand the steam operation, and appreciate it for what it is. While the engines and trains may be gaudy with the bright paint and brasswork, and look nothing like how they looked when the left the Baldwin shops early in the last century, they are in fact genuine "full size" narrow-gauge steam engines. I cannot help but feel that removing steam from this Park would be doing a great disservice, not only to Disney fans, but to rail fans as well.  

 

The steam trains in California--being held to a different standard as actually being part of Walt Disney's legacy--are safe for now.

 

I think I can safely say that more people have been exposed to actual operational steam locomotives through their visits to Disneyland and Walt Disney World than all the tourist railroads in the country combined. I for one think it would be a massive shame for the four Walt Disney World engines, with their Baldwin pedigrees, to go cold forever, but that is what I'm hearing more and more.

 

Disney doesn't think there will be much protest. I'm hoping they've grossly miscalculated.

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Easier for the "college aged" cast member to run a diesel and text on his/her iphone at the same time.

 

As far as the protest. 99.999% of the general public could care less about any train as long as its not blocking the crossing when they're trying to get to work.

 

I haven't been there in several years feeling the economic "pinch" like most. It doesn't help that the train being elevated, running on the outer perimeter, and  somewhat hidden behind trees and such most of the time, most people don't even notice it.

 

The only time I even recall seeing it was when it happened to be stopped above the main entrance.

 

I'm not saying it should go, just that I can see why Disney thinks there will be  a "lack of protest".

Last edited by RickO

I hope it's not true.  When you refer to the diesel hydraulic engines, if they look like diesel engines, that would just not feel right.

 

I think there are a lot of disney fans not necessarily into trains in general that would miss it, but maybe more in CA.

 

I can understand the technical concerns (not in detail, but in a big picture kind of way).  I don't know if it's common or if I just got unlucky, but when I did the Steam Trains tour, there were technical issues with 2 trains they tried to get running to get us back from the service area to Main Street Station.  I still enjoyed the tour, and I think we got a lot more discussion from our guide while maintenance cast members tried to get the trains ready to go.  Ultimately we needed to take an SUV back to the front of the park, but I still enjoyed the tour.

 

The tour does still seem to get interested parties to attend, I think the only reason it's not more popular is that you have to get there several hours before the park opens to attend.

 

-Dave

 

I may be mistaken and maybe it's a different ride that I'm thinking of since it's been a number of years since my family and I were there, but isn't the steam train part of a ride where it gets robbed? I seem to recall riding along and then somewhere in Frontierland it gets waylaid by a masked bandit or two. How's that going to play with a diesel or gas powered engine?

Originally Posted by xrayvizhen:

 How's that going to play with a diesel or gas powered engine?

Not sure about any kind of "robbery" since it's nearly impossible to walk between the cars.

 

The new engines would be "steam outline," like they use in Hong Kong, or Disney's Animal Kingdom--engines that outwardly look like steam locomotives, but have internal combustion engines hidden inside.

Originally Posted by smd4:
Originally Posted by xrayvizhen:

 How's that going to play with a diesel or gas powered engine?

Not sure about any kind of "robbery" since it's nearly impossible to walk between the cars.

 

The new engines would be "steam outline," like they use in Hong Kong, or Disney's Animal Kingdom--engines that outwardly look like steam locomotives, but have internal combustion engines hidden inside.

What I meant by the robbery was, you're riding along enjoying the view and then all of a sudden masked gunmen emerge from a saloon or somewhere, flag the train down shooting guns into the air, the train stops and the gunmen "threaten" the passengers. The conductor then shoots back with his own weapon, the gunmen retreat, the train continues on its way and a good time was had by all. I think the wild west feel of the ride would be lost with a diesel or gas engine but I guess if it looks like a steam engine and they play a chuffing sound through speakers so it sounds like a steam engine, most folks won't know the difference.

 

(And if Walt were alive he'd be 113 years old and he might not care either!)

Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by xrayvizhen:
Originally Posted by smd4:
Originally Posted by xrayvizhen:

 How's that going to play with a diesel or gas powered engine?

Not sure about any kind of "robbery" since it's nearly impossible to walk between the cars.

 

The new engines would be "steam outline," like they use in Hong Kong, or Disney's Animal Kingdom--engines that outwardly look like steam locomotives, but have internal combustion engines hidden inside.

What I meant by the robbery was, you're riding along enjoying the view and then all of a sudden masked gunmen emerge from a saloon or somewhere, flag the train down shooting guns into the air, the train stops and the gunmen "threaten" the passengers. The conductor then shoots back with his own weapon, the gunmen retreat, the train continues on its way and a good time was had by all. I think the wild west feel of the ride would be lost with a diesel or gas engine but I guess if it looks like a steam engine and they play a chuffing sound through speakers so it sound like a steam engine, most folks won't know the difference.

 

(And if Walt were alive he'd be 113 years old and he might not care either!)

The Chance C. P. Huntington's seem to be pretty popular with the general public, even with their Blomberg trucks.

 

Are the Disney World steamers coming due for FRA recertification? 

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:
Are the Disney World steamers coming due for FRA recertification? 

As insular railroads, the steam locomotives and trains of Disneyland and Walt Disney World do not fall under the purview of the FRA. Their insurance carriers enforce boiler safety. In fact, the steam engines in Florida don't even have engine brakes!

Last edited by smd4

If there is truth to this, then the executives at Disney waited for Roy Disney's passing before even considering it. No living Disney would stand for the elimination of the steam engine from Florida or California. It is inexorably tied to the magic kingdom.

I wouldn't be surprised if Walt's daughter protests this.

 

Originally Posted by Big Jim:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Agreed, but if and when the(y) go to some internal combustion contraption, I'm sure the emissions will be WORSE.

Huh?

Wasn't it proven a long time ago that internal combustion (33% +/-) was much more efficient than steam (8% +/-)?

I never said anything about EFFICIENCY! Just smell some of the exhaust that is emitted from lots of diesel powered mechanical devices.

Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by Big Jim:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Agreed, but if and when the(y) go to some internal combustion contraption, I'm sure the emissions will be WORSE.

Huh?

Wasn't it proven a long time ago that internal combustion (33% +/-) was much more efficient than steam (8% +/-)?

I never said anything about EFFICIENCY! Just smell some of the exhaust that is emitted from lots of diesel powered mechanical devices.

And you don't think that the less emissions from a more efficient source will trump more emissions from a less efficient source? Witness 8444 against a diesel.

Originally Posted by smd4:

Of late, there has recently been a rise in the amount of chatter I've been hearing--some coming from very highly-placed sources--that the days of operational steam locomotives at Florida's Walt Disney World will soon to be coming to an end. New diesel-hydraulic locomotives will be built, and the genuine steam locomotives are to be phased out and mothballed over the next few years. Cited reasons for this change are decreased maintenance and personnel costs.

 

Steve, Could not agree with you more.  I took the behind the scenes tour when I was there a couple of years ago.  There is certainly value to these engines being historically preserved and operated.  I hope this plan to mothball them does not come to pass. 

 

Did they not just get done with a rebuild on "Lilly Belle"?

Last edited by MichRR714

I enjoyed Mike Broggies book "Walt Disneys Railroad Story". Walt Disney was a model train live steam enthusiast along with Ward Kimball. I don't think this would fly but he and his generation are all long gone.  Who in the general public besides a small few, care. I happen to be a Lilly Belle fan.

Well the disney type steam locomotives are a little to early for me.But as big as the disney corp is.I mean they bought abc and marvel comics.They have themparks in different parts of the world.And they have not done to badly in the movies and tv shows.What I am geting at is this just does not add up.They take in billions of dollars per year.So they arn,t hurting for money by any means.And I,ll say this if walt wree around.Some body would find thmselfs outside and looking for another job.

Originally Posted by seaboard streak:

Well the disney type steam locomotives are a little to early for me.But as big as the disney corp is.I mean they bought abc and marvel comics.They have themparks in different parts of the world.And they have not done to badly in the movies and tv shows.What I am geting at is this just does not add up.They take in billions of dollars per year.So they arn,t hurting for money by any means.And I,ll say this if walt wree around.Some body would find thmselfs outside and looking for another job.

LONE RANGER was a flop.  Burnt more $$$ than a Bakken Play unit train wreck!

I assumed the steam engines at Disney World were fakes already.Profit is number one,of course the main reason of my visiting the park would be to see live steam.I guess they consider me in a small minority that doesn't matter.I hope they don't kill the live steam operations at Disneyland too,that park I would like to visit someday.

Dan

Originally Posted by DMASSO:

Wasn't there a forum member that use to run this train or was that in Florida?

 

There is a forum member who runs the Disneyland train in CA, but I'm ashamed to admit his name escapes me at the moment.  He posted some dramatic photos of what the sky looked like in the Disneyland Area a few years ago when the wild-fires got so close to Anaheim.

 

The post topic is the trains in Florida (Walt Disney World) going away(or at least becoming something other than real steam engines). 

 

The OP stated that the trains in CA (Disneyland) are not yet in danger due to having the actual connection to Walt (since that's the only park he lived to see built).

 

-Dave

Last edited by Dave45681
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