Has anyone installed Kadee Couplers on the Atlas Trinity 5161 Hoppers?

Although those are way too modern for me, I can tell you without exception that, the coupler mounting holes provided on any/all Atlas equipment are designed & located for mounting their own brand of coupler boxes. Thus, the Kadee #805 and/or #740 coupler boxes will protrude out well past the end sill of all their freight cars.

Anybody that has installed a number of Kaydees over the years usually has a good supply of the kaydee springs ,I find that the newest Atlas couplers work well with kaydees if you replace the knuckle and centering springs with the much lighter kaydee springs. If you open the kaydee coupler box mtg holes with a #42 drill and use 2mm screws you will be able to use the existing Atlas mtg holes and the Kaydee box should be at the same position as the Atlas box relative to the car body. I have installed dozens of Kaydees and modified a number of Atlas boxes when I have not wanted to change out the Mfgs [Atlas] original box all with satisfactory results.Just saying.

Those are interesting ideas. Will have to try that on my next Atlas conversion. I'm assuming you still need to shim the box to get the height right.

Probably good advice except, that isn't what the original posted asked. Yes, those Kadee springs work pretty well in the Atlas couplers, but how does on deal with the poor quality of the Atlas knuckle breaking off? All the Kadee springs in the world will NOT overcome that issue.

 

In my opinion, the bottom line is to drill & tap new holes in the Atlas O rolling stock, and then properly mount Kadee #805 or #740 couplers.

Yes in most cases shims are usually required. I make my own from various thicknesses of styrene stock.

I agree mtg the Kaydees is the best way to go, I only have a small switching layout and have not experienced any breaking knuckles on the newer Atlas metal couplers so I can get away with just changing springs when I don't want to change out the Atlas box.JMO

 

Frank, do not tap the holes with a inch bit (2-56) unless you drill them first or they will crack. I have a tap from Aristo that's a M2 metric, that works easily (middle one in bottom picture). I then drill the coupler boxes on the 745 KD with a bigger bit 3/32" and press inward, making the holes slightly oblong towards the middle. I then install the box with M2 x8 screws.

 I would generally agree with Jack (HW) that the KD might stick out on some cars. I believe they'll look good on these with the existing holes.

PS. it looks like they just left Buffalo so you'll have them soon.

I put #804 on the second conversion as I had ordered the 745s for engines and forgot that I did that. I just noticed the coupler heads on the 804s are smaller and the trip pin points downwards more. The trip pin on the 745s are bent more circular.

 I don't like selling stuff. I want them all! I had a couple 3 rail sets stashed so long, I almost forgot about them. Frank's post made me get going on them. Congrats Frank. You got some beautiful cars. Here's a sample ....

 

I just finished painting a pair of Penn 4 bay hoppers. Changed them to M.O.W.. As these cars were several years old they had the old Atlas couplers that did break. I replaced them with KDs. Actually easy. Opened the box and stuck in the 804s with no real problems.

 

Dick

Interesting read guys thank you for posting.

no problems other than shims are required

I will admit to a hideous bodge in this regard (but it sure is fast and cheap).    

 

I just use a pair of #1-72 x 1/2" brass screws in a Kadee box with Kadee coupler. No drilling or tapping, just start them both a few turns and then tighten gradually in equal amounts. They both go in at a slight angle due to the different hole spacing, but they will tighten down nicely if done evenly. I use the Micromark shims if needed, and trim the screws to length so they won't stick out beyond the threaded hole, allowing for any shims.

 

The engineers among us just need to close their minds to the nightmarish metal-on-plastic torture that's going on inside the threaded holes as the slightly-too-small, mis-pitched screws make their agonizingly angled way in, but I have never had one fail.     

 

Pete

the mounts are plastic?

My bad, sorry. Edited my post. I probably should add a drop of CA to the threads...

It's a wonder someone hasn't thought about writing a book on 3-rail to 2-Rail conversions.

I reckon I spend 1/3 of my modelling time at the bench doing conversions. Been doing them for over 20 years.

Like I have just converted six Lionel scale hoppers, now I'm changing six MTH hoppers to 2-rail.

What annoys me the most is the waste all those 3 rail wheels in the trash along with other parts from trucks the couplers as well all in the trash.

Then if it's not a conversion 3-2 rail  it's fitting Kadees to everything replacing all the Atlas and Weaver couplings again all go in the trash I kept a few for the Scrap Yard.

I did keep a few Weaver couplings in case I have a brain snap and sell a few pieces.

Isn't it fun being a 2 Railer!

(No time to write a book too busy doing conversions!) Ha Ha.

Roo.

Hilarious at times!

Gotta get onto the "buddy system". Find those 2-rail friendly 3-rail operators who are converting 2-rail equipment to 3-rail and trade them your 3-rail trucks and couplers for the 2-rail counterparts they would be discarding. Costs a whole $5.75 for a Priority Mail small box to ship instead of $20 for a pair of new trucks, plus the cost of couplers. I have a couple of guys I do truck/coupler trades with.

 

For Weaver plastic trucks, I just get Intermountain wheels. I use the 3-rail wheelsets to replace bad ones on 3-rail equipment at the club and send them off to people who need them.

 

Ironically, I used to be on the 3-rail end of the transaction. Somehow it feels strange saying that.

We need to develop this clientelle on this here forum...  lots of 3 railers here would love our "excess" wheels.

Matt, Matt, Matt.

Have you forgotten we live at the end of the earth any further and we will fall off!

Check the cost of shipping I would give all this stuff away for free if someone pays the shipping don't ask me how they would do that once they see the shipping costs they would be outa here, like I'm going to be in a minute the missus is yelling out to me to get ready to go out and shut the computer off!

(I throw all the boxes out as well at least they go in the recycling bin.)

"I'm turning it off Dear, don't panic!

Roo.

Write the book, Roo.  You could get a Government grant. 

 

Cheers

Oops. Forgot about that.

Had a little bit of time this evening and installed a few pairs of Kadee 740 couplers on these two Atlas Trinity 5161 Covered Hoppers.  Basically I removed the Atlas coupler boxes, drilled and tapped the holes for 2-56 screws, with the rear holes slightly tilted in at an angle.  As already noted the Atlas holes don't quite line up for the Kadee gear boxes especially for 2-56 screws.  The smaller screws work better, but in most cases still require some angle for driving one of them home.

 

Anyway fairly simple conversion and definitely IMO a lot better coupler then even the new Atlas knuckle coupler.   You can also see what I do with the cut lever bar on 2 Rail cars. Just put a very small drop of CA on the end of the brass wire and set it in screw head.  I can still remove the wire if I need to remove the gear box cover without damaging the screw.