Help, I can't figure this out

Do you have some lighted cars you can try?

Oman posted:

Do you have some lighted cars you can try?

I'll try that now

Same thing. If I put a lighted caboose on any of the tracks all 3 tracks go down to 2.7 volts.  When I remove it, back to 18 volts?

What are you measuring the voltage with?

A meter

I would unhook the legacy and try it again. if same results I would say it has to do with the transformer if not somehow the Legacy is causing a problem 

rtraincollector posted:

I would unhook the legacy and try it again. if same results I would say it has to do with the transformer if not somehow the Legacy is causing a problem 

Unhook the Legacy ground?

Doug N posted:

A meter

Well obviously, but what kind of meter, i.e. digital or analog?  You may also try a test light, and see if that drops the voltage. Sure sounds like a transformer issue though.

Hot Water posted:

Doug N posted:

A meter

Well obviously, but what kind of meter, i.e. digital or analog?  You may also try a test light, and see if that drops the voltage. Sure sounds like a transformer issue though.

Sorry, I'm just a little frustrated.  Digital. I also checked the voltage at the back of the ZW it is always 18.

OK, that's what I was wondering. Digital Multimeters can be VERY misleading when measuring voltage.

The digital meter is reading very close to the reading on the ZW-L

OK, so "open circuit" it is 18 volts. Put a load on it and it drops to essentially zero. Doesn't sound good.

The drop is on the track, not at the back of the ZW?

Describe the connection between the ZW and the track.

I have several drops around each loop hooked to buss bars.

Doug N posted:

... I also checked the voltage at the back of the ZW it is always 18.

Well, if it is always 18V right at the ZW, but drops to a few Volts on the track when loaded, then I'd say you have a bad connection to the track - loose or bad connector, broken wire maybe even underneath the insulation, etc.  If it makes sense to you, you should be able to use a meter to trace back to where the voltage drops (when loaded).  Or, frankly, I bet if you wiggle the wiring in some methodical fashion, say starting from the xfmr and moving to the track, you will find the culprit.

Doug N posted:

I have several drops around each loop hooked to buss bars.

What track; most important how do you connect to the track?

stan2004 posted:

Doug N posted:

... I also checked the voltage at the back of the ZW it is always 18.

Well, if it is always 18V right at the ZW, but drops to a few Volts on the track when loaded, then I'd say you have a bad connection to the track - loose or bad connector, broken wire maybe even underneath the insulation, etc.  If it makes sense to you, you should be able to use a meter to trace back to where the voltage drops (when loaded).  Or, frankly, I bet if you wiggle the wiring in some methodical fashion, say starting from the xfmr and moving to the track, you will find the culprit.

I thought that could be the case but ironic that it is happening on all three loops.  Maybe the common ground?

I would try hooking up jumpers from the transformer to the center rain and a outside or inside rail. Bypass the wires to the track.

Nairb Rekab posted:

I would try hooking up jumpers from the transformer to the center rain and a outside or inside rail. Bypass the wires to the track.

I'll have to get some longer jumpers.

Doug N posted:

...I thought that could be the case but ironic that it is happening on all three loops.  Maybe the common ground?

Well, I'd think that helps to narrow the location of what I'll call a high-resistance connection.  Just a little current flow (from a lighted caboose) and that high-resistance drops all the voltage.  So if track power is being distributed by bus-bars as you say then it must be in the wiring or connections from ZW to the bus-bars. 

If you place the lighted caboose on one of the tracks and just starting wiggling or massaging (these are sophisticated technical techniques) the wires starting at the ZW, I'll bet the caboose will flicker and localize the high-resistance point.

Are any of the meter lights on the transformer going out when it drops?

Does it drop on all tracks when the lighted car is placed on the a track?

Have you tried unplugging the transformer and plugging it again?

I am thinking it is the transformer folding back power for some reason.

You may want to disconnect the all tracks at the transformer and test each loop for continuity between the center and both outside rails. Should be none, obviously.

Then, check loop to loop center rail to center rail. 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 3. Should be none, if they are isolated.

Confirm that all are isolated from one another and no shorts exist.

Then, connect power to one loop at a time and check with the lighted car.

Call Lionel. It may be transformer.

Moonman posted:

Are any of the meter lights on the transformer going out when it drops?

Does it drop on all tracks when the lighted car is placed on the a track?

Have you tried unplugging the transformer and plugging it again?

I am thinking it is the transformer folding back power for some reason.

You may want to disconnect the all tracks at the transformer and test each loop for continuity between the center and both outside rails. Should be none, obviously.

Then, check loop to loop center rail to center rail. 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 3. Should be none, if they are isolated.

Confirm that all are isolated from one another and no shorts exist.

Then, connect power to one loop at a time and check with the lighted car.

Call Lionel. It may be transformer.

Thanks for the input. I can't do any more tonight, try tomorrow. 

One of the meters dims slightly.

all tracks drop when a car with a center roller is placed on any track

i did unplug the strip that the transformer is plugged into

All three? Focus on the common.

Do you have another trusty transformer ( maybe an older post war ZW) you can swap out?

JDaddy, It appears to be a transformer problem.  I was able to wire another transformer to one of the loops and all worked fine. I need to see if Lionel or someone repairs ZW-L's.  

Lionel should certainly repair that one.  Is it still under warranty?  Truthfully, it sounds like a poor internal connection, it might be an easy fix.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Lionel should certainly repair that one.  Is it still under warranty?  Truthfully, it sounds like a poor internal connection, it might be an easy fix.

I've had it for a couple years. I assume it's not under warranty.  It was working fine, then boom.  

Sorry Doug, I believe warranty is one year.

DMASSO posted:

Sorry Doug, I believe warranty is one year.

That's what I thought

At least you got it narrowed down to the transformer, and that you have another to us while the ZW-L gets fixed. Silver linings.

Doug N posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Lionel should certainly repair that one.  Is it still under warranty?  Truthfully, it sounds like a poor internal connection, it might be an easy fix.

I've had it for a couple years. I assume it's not under warranty.  It was working fine, then boom.  

I agree with John. With what this transformer costs Lionel should fix it. I just ordered a zw-l and now i'm having second thoughts about it.

That's why I prefer to stick with the old stuff.  Electronics work great, when they work, which is most of the time.  But when something goes bad, they're usually trash.  That's just my way of looking at it.  Hopefully your repair will be reasonable in cost.  I can appreciate how frustrating it can be not being able to see what's wrong with the hardware at times.

So today I tried it again and everything is working fine????

Doug N posted:

So today I tried it again and everything is working fine????

I bet you have a bad connection in the transformer or a broken wire to the track. Did the red light on the transformer ever flash ?

Doug N posted:

So today I tried it again and everything is working fine????

It's still worth a call to Lionel. They have seen all of it and will know if it's a local issue or a transformer issue. Who knows, the ZW-L boasts "dynamic power management" ( believe they called it).

I plan to call them again Monday.

  It also could be it just needed a lengthy power shut down and a 'reboot"...or five.

   "Chips" can on occasion forget their job and react in a way they should not. It may never do it again. Static alone could have caused it.

  This is why you won't catch me trusting only 1 car computer alone to do things like throttle, steering, and brakes. I know from repair trade experience, IT happens.

Lionel may be interested in abnormal actions though. Doesn't hurt to ask. Confirming you don't have other issues is paramount to the situation.