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I'm in the planning stages for my first railroad. I have made the classic oval and figure eights this is my first attempt at a prototypical layout. I am not sure what the size will be as of yet but I was hoping to get some advice on the best materials to use and how to determine how much of the materials I will need based on the size. I know I'm not going to get an exact answer since I don't have measurements, I'm hoping there is some sort of equation. I was thinking I would use 2x4s for the bench work and 3/4in plywood for the deck, does that sound right? Also what material works best for sound proofing homasote or  foam insulation? Any advice is appreciated!!

 

Thank you.

Michael

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Friday 8.5.11 008

The above photo is a favorite style of frame work I like to use.   On top I use 3/4" Birch or Advantech decking with a toping of 1/2" Homosote.

Otherwise, Wescott's Model RR Benchwork book  is a good place to start.

Mianne benchwork is a quick and popular way to get it done this month.

Some of your questions are somewhat akin to asking "who should I vote for?"  "which is best, Ford or Chevy?" or "which church is best?"

Expect good but very different responses.

Go onto You Tube.  Enter model railroad benchwork. There are dozens of videos showing different styles of benchwork construction.,

 

 

 

 

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  • Friday 8.5.11 008
Last edited by Tom Tee

One point on Tom Tee's technique. Using a good grade of a 3/4" plywood sheet ripped into 3 1/2" wide 8 foot lengths provides strong and stable framing pieces. You get 13 pieces 8 feet long.

When you compare the cost to a "good" grade of pine 1" x 4" x 8' it becomes less expensive and a better choice for stability. The home stores have the panel saw to make the cuts for you. The pine won't be straight and subject to change after installation, even at $8-$9 a board.

You can use 24" centers if you employ a grid style with 3/4" deck. Some are comfortable with a 1/2" deck, but I would use 16" spacing with it.

Once you determine the size and shape of the layout and select a framing style, this should help you compare to dimensional lumber in cost and estimate a sheet count for an all plywood construction.

Last edited by Moonman

IMHO, your question is too open-ended for any kind of definitive answer.....and Ford is not better, it's just another option. 

Anyway, you can never go wrong following Lynn Westcott's tried and true system using 1x4" L-girders with 3/4" plywood topped by Homasote, just be aware that Lynn's system was designed back in a day when there weren't a lot of options. The L-girder system takes relatively unstable 1x4's and stabilizes them by forming the "L", but like Carl said, others simply rip 3/4" plywood into 4" strips that make very stable benchwork for less cost. Even if you go in another direction, Lynn's book will give you everything you need to consider and many things you'd never think about until it's too late, so I echo the suggestion to read it.

I'm a bit of a contrarian though. In many cases, other systems, like Bob Barrett's use of 1x3's with 1/2" plywood, are more than enough and cheaper. If you look through this forum, you'll find every kind of benchwork imaginable and I've yet to see many say they would chose a different method if they had to do it all over again. To be sure, some do use a different system for their 2nd, 3rd, etc., layouts, but in most cases, that's because the size and style of the layout changes.

I'm building a 10x12 tabletop style layout in 6 modules covered with 1/2" plywood, so all I need is framing to support that. I don't have any need to stand on it, so my cross-member spacing varies from 16"-24" depending on the size of the module. However, if I were filling a basement with a much larger layout, I'd be using some form of Lynn's L-girder system. I don't know that I'd go so far as what's shown in the photo Tom Tee posted, but there's little doubt that benchwork will last a lifetime. I believe that benchwork is designed to keep the curves stable and it appears to differ from the benchwork along the wall.

A lot of decisions will be based on finances and time. Like Tom said, Mianne is great if you don't have the time, tools, etc. It uses 1x3 I-beams with 1/2" plywood. I considered it, but in the end, I decided I want to do my own. Homasote is great for sound deadening, but it's not widely available in a lot of places. Foam is not a sound-absorbing material, so it's mostly used for landscaping where riverbeds, mountains, etc., are needed. That said, Woodland Scenics markets layouts built entirely of foam, so it's all a matter of what one wants. I'm on my 5th idea for benchwork and I still don't know exactly what I'm going to do until I begin construction later this month. I may build the 1st module and decide to go in another direction. I'd use Lynn's L-girder, but it just seems like more wood than needed for a tabletop style layout.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

There are lots of layout building examples on this forum that show different approaches, including mine - link below. 

Remember that foam insulation is not sound insulation as Homasote is. Alternates to Homasote, and cheaper, are QuietBrace and Asphalt board, from Home Depot.

A search (OGR forum) for Homasote and QuietBrace will result in a lot of information.

Good luck!

Alex

Alexander Müller

Last edited by Ingeniero No1

I highly recommend contacting Tim Foley of Mianne Benchwork:

www.miannebenchwork.com

At the start, I was going to scratch-build my benchwork to spend less money. Every time I went to York, I would go to Tim's booth and look at the benchwork. I thought it was going to be too expensive, but after considering how much time scratch-building would take, I decided Mianne was the way to go. Tim is a class act and a great guy to work with. He helped me custom-design my benchwork, and since the original purchase and construction, he also helped me with adding to it, which was very easy. 3 friends and I assembled the benchwork in about a 1 1/2 days, and it was a breeze. The finished product is rock-solid, especially after installing 1/2" plywood.

Unless you really enjoy woodworking / carpentry, Mianne is, in my opinion, the way to go. It's money well-spent.

Houses are made with 2x4's and 3/4" Advantech or plywood.  IMHO, train benchwork need not be.  Design your layout so you don't have to walk on it.

What has worked for me is as follows:

Legs:  1 3/4 gluelam beams ripped into 1 3/4 x 1 3/4 legs.  Very sturdy, stay straight as an arrow, and cheaper than poplar or other hardwood

Girders:  3/4" plywood ripped to 1x4 or 1x3's

Top:  3/8" plywood covered with 1/2" Quietboard or Fiberboard for sound deadening

Assembly:  Screw together with coarse thread drywall screws (drill pilot holes).  Don't glue anything!  I learned this the hard way when trying to modify or disassemble a former layout.  Build manageable sections and bolt them together with 1/4" carriage bolts and lock nuts.

I have 3" non marking casters on every leg, and I can move the entire 16' x 8' layout around on a carpeted surface by myself without a problem.

Just my humble suggestion.

Tom

BlueComet400 posted:

I highly recommend contacting Tim Foley of Mianne Benchwork:

www.miannebenchwork.com

At the start, I was going to scratch-build my benchwork to spend less money. Every time I went to York, I would go to Tim's booth and look at the benchwork. I thought it was going to be too expensive, but after considering how much time scratch-building would take, I decided Mianne was the way to go. Tim is a class act and a great guy to work with. He helped me custom-design my benchwork, and since the original purchase and construction, he also helped me with adding to it, which was very easy. 3 friends and I assembled the benchwork in about a 1 1/2 days, and it was a breeze. The finished product is rock-solid, especially after installing 1/2" plywood.

Unless you really enjoy woodworking / carpentry, Mianne is, in my opinion, the way to go. It's money well-spent.

I did the same as you have done here and used Mianne benchwork. I am sold on it, it's a very nice, well made, easy to assemble in a short time, and a well thought out system that can be easily added on to at a later time.

I think the first thing you need to ask yourself is will you have to walk on the layout.  Although there are only a few places where this is needed on my layout, the answer was still yes.  If you need to walk on it, you need to build it sturdy enough so that is not a problem.  I used 2x4 construction on 16" centers with a very good quality 7 ply 3/4" AC plywood top.  I can walk on my layout at 200 plus pounds without any issue.

Last edited by MichRR714

Trusting plywood is like trusting people.  It's not their thickness so much as it is their strength and integrity. 

Things like voids in their core, over lappinjg of core levels giving lumpy surfaces, the composite woods, hard wood or soft wood, fast growth or slow growth, glue used in manufacture, how has it been treated in storage/handling.  Is it stored on flat decks or poorly spaced uneven rack fingers like Lowe's/HD/84?  You best go to friend may well be a quality genuine lumber yard.

As a rule of thumb, the better the grade of plywood the better the core.

Just stating recommended thickness may not be the complete story. 

One of the most uneven layout surfaces I have seen used 1X4 pine framing with 3 ply 1/2" pine plywood.

Another thing to consider is whether you are running scale flanges.  Typical three rail is rather forgiving. Two rail or three rail with scale flanges needs very  flat, consistent surfaces.

Cheating on the very foundation of your rail empire will only return headaches.

Last edited by Tom Tee
BlueComet400 posted:

Mike CT, looks like very sturdy benchwork. I like the wood facing too; gives it a nice finished look.

Two by Four 's  premium grade are available just about everywhere.  IMO, you don't save a lot going to 1" X 4" material, especially if it's good quality, (clear or near clear) material,  which we use on the light weight Fort Pitt Modular layout.   We have had issues with 1" X 4" material warping, once installed, though this can easily happen with 2" X 4" material also.   Deck material on the Fort Pitt modules is 1/4" luan board, again light weight.

Fort Pitt Modules.  Finish boards, outside/inside double the thickness to 1 1/2".  Top and on the floor in this picture. Also note the end boards are an "L" shaped, (2) board, assembly to maintain integrity of the ends.   Clamp boards have, the through-bolts and wing nuts, for the leg attachments not shown.

Leg assemblies stacked on top of other parts.  Note the (4) curved corners.  (Right, Left ....)

 

Last edited by Mike CT

The very first question you need to consider is, what layout design do you have in mind?  This is dictated by the allotted space you have.   A middle of the room table top requires heftier bench work to stand sturdy.   Once you attach a layout to a wall then lighter methods of construction can be used.  Next you need to consider what style layout...concentric ovals of varying sizes, folded dog bones or realistic point to point?  A flat table top is relatively simple to construct of 2X4 grids and plywood, whereas the L girder method is simpler when varying roadbed elevations are desired.  While standing on a layout to access construction is far from ideal, sometimes it needs to happen, where compromises in design because of allocated space can't be avoided.   Anytime I'm confronted by a design obstacle, the old adage of " less is more" solves the issue.  The KISS principle will get you up and running sooner.

Bruce

Last edited by brwebster
unclelouiesboy posted:

TK62 /Tom  would it be possible for you to please post a picture of the tables legs and how you have the casters attached.  Thank you Gary lisa and the Girls

Gary,  I've attached a pic that shows the first layer of my latest layout benchwork.  Some of the legs are repurposed popular, and the longer ones (extending above the first layer) are the ones cut from gluelam.  The casters are threaded stud type, and are attached to the legs using 3/8" T-nuts (either hammer in or screw mounted), with a 3/8" hole drilled deep enough to allow the shaft of the caster to penetrate.  I use 2 nuts between the caster and the T-nut to allow for a small amount of height adjustment.  The different amount of weight on each leg will cause the casters to sink differently into the carpet, and you need a way to level out the tabletop.

Tom

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MichRR714 posted:

I think the first thing you need to ask yourself is will you have to walk on the layout.  Although there are only a few places where this is needed on my layout, the answer was still yes.  If you need to walk on it, you need to build it sturdy enough so that is not a problem.  I used 2x4 construction on 16" centers with a very good quality 7 ply 3/4" AC plywood top.  I can walk on my layout at 200 plus pounds without any issue.

I think that is a very good question and the right one to ask first.

I never thought I would have to stand on my layout, but there are spots where that would be useful.   I used 1"x4" pine for ribs and perimeter pieces in a butt-end construction technique.  Table tops and cookie-cutter sub-roadbed is 11/32" plywood.  Theoretically, I should be able to stand on it, but I'm not eager to test it.

George

 

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