how to tell if smoke unit takes fluid or pellets??

All Marx takes fluid.  If you really are into the spirit of Marx, Mega-Steam has a wonderful smelling Marx flavor. Makes Pepe-LePew smell like a rose.  Original Marx smoke came in a WICKED green bottle.  (WICKED, as in Broadway play!)

BTW, a 666 will smoke up like a, er, well, the lead resdient of Hades!

I do not know when Lionel went from pellets to liquid fluid.  If a pellet smoker works, you can put a few liquid drops in it ans see if you get a plume.  Not too much, though, because there is no material to wick up the fluid. 

Lionel introduced liquid smoke units with the 746 N&W "J" locomotive (1957). 

Whether an engine had a liquid or pellet smoke unit was based on its design.
The 2029 2-6-4 (1969) had a pellet type smoke unit.

In the modern era, smoke pellets were catalogued though 1973.
I don't recall whether any modern era locos came with pellets.

The pellet smoke units did have an absorbent lining under the heater element. In addition to the 746, some Scout engines from 1961 also had liquid smoke units.

Larry

Dominic:

I agree as the few Marx engines I’ve had smoked like crazy!  But regarding your comment about using fluid in locos designed for pellets, I have successfully used smoke fluid in several post-war steamers on my layout, but that may not be possible in ALL Lionel Post-war steam engines.  The engines made in 1946 with smoke (671, 726 & 2020) used a large lamp which served as both the headlamp and the heater to produce smoke instead of the resistance heater used from 1947 on.  While many 1946 smoking engines have converted to the resistance heater those which still have a smoke lamp probably can not use fluid.  The smoke lamp has a shallow concave indentation in its top in which to place the smoke pellet and that indentation certainly would not hold much smoke fluid.  The fluid would probably damage the bulb, too.  But I don’t want to be the first one to test that, any volunteers?

In fact those engines with smoke lamps even require a different pellet than the later engines.  They use a #196 smoke pellet which was made in 1946 rather than the more common SP pellets introduced in 1947 for use in the heater-type smoke units.  The chemical composition was changed and although I read the reason for the difference somewhere very recently I can’t remember it now.

HTH,

Bill

Yours takes fluid. About 6 drops. FYI, late 2029 locos (66-68) took fluid. Early versions took pellets.

I have been running smoke bulb engines for years. In my experience they do not smoke well with either SP type smoke pellets or smoke fluid. I never tried the original 196 smoke pellets because they were unsafe and unavailable. They are know to decompose over time, so any original pellets that folks might have are probably no good.
Regardless, I like smoke bulb engines and have several, along with spare bulbs.

As far as the 2029 locomotive goes:

I have not handled many late ones.

This is the first I've heard about the 1968-69 versions using liquid smoke.

Did they come with a plastic liquid smoke unit?
Or did they have a traditional pellet type smoke unit, but came with a bottle of liquid smoke?

I purchased an uncataloged  Lionel train set with a 2029 in a sealed box some time ago. I thought it came with pellets. I am going to have to take a look.

I found my 2029 set in "The Authoritative Guide to Lionel's Promotional Outfits 1960-1969" by John Schmid.

It is set 11620 (1968), on page 427.

According to the book the set came with SP smoke pellets.

I've never run or disassembled the locomotive (or any other of the set's components).

Update: my set does have a bottle of SP pellets.

In case anyone is looking for smoke pellet suppliers (pellets can be hard to find), here's two links to help:

http://www.internettrains.com/...TS&Category_Code

http://www.trainz.com/t-productnotfound.aspx

I have two Lionel early post-war units that work only with pellets.  I'm too lazy to change them to fluid 

Bob, if your locos use the usual pill type heater elements, then you can use liquid smoke fluid in them without changing out the element. You can use both pill and liquid in the same unit.

Larry

I didn't mean to hijack Pat's original post, but here is what I was referring to. This is the liquid version on the common 2026-8 smoke generator. It has a small wire wound resistor. Very similar to the type used in the liquid smoke conversions kits now, but the generator version shown has a long continuous cloth covered lead. The heater would not work as well with pellets because of the smaller heating surface. It does not have a wicking sleeve and is 35 ohms vs. the standard 27 ohms. This is brand new old stock, and has the grey cement around the ground lead which has a plastic cap. I have seen this type in late 2029's with 'Japan' stamped on the trailing truck. Anybody with an unaltered 2029 can confirm?

I realize that 99 percent of the OGR participants are not interested in whether the postwar Lionel 2029 locomotive ever came with a liquid smoke unit. But the topic interests me, so I looked through some of my service station papers. Here is what I found:

• the 1970 factory parts list does not list any smoke unit parts under the number 2029.
• the plastic smoke unit cap carries a 2029-16 part number
• a have a couple of NOS 8600-42 smoke units that have the liquid style heater, along with a natural colored plastic cap. They do not have any cement on them. The cylinder (for the piston) is plastic. They came in a Little Falls Lionel envelope.

CW, does your 2029 looking down the stack, have the small wire wound heater, or the standard flat pellet type heater?

Chuck: You talked me into unpacking the set! Boy those components are squeezed in there tightly. (still, everything went back in place)

The engine does not have a traditional 671-225 smoke element, it has what looks like a wire wound resistor. It isn't white like the one pictured above. It is the color of nichrome wire, and the turns are visible.

As I wrote above, the set came with a bottle of SP smoke pellets, not smoke fluid.

It sounds like your engine has the same unit as above. The pictures are not high resolution but it does have the nichrome wire wound around a white core. Interesting they would pack pellets with the set, a small bottle of 909 smoke fluid would have been a better choice for this reworking of the generator. The ones I have repaired over the years I got better results with fluid as the pellets don't melt fully with the smaller heating surface compared to the older wire wound ceramic core heater. Thanks for your input CW.

 Now to return thread Pat's to him!

 Loco shell is from the 30' and the motor is from the 50s but it didnt originaly have a smoke unit. Ive never seen the wicks on my lionels so I didnt know what it was

Sorry, I don't sell.

Apparently Stout has one in an upcoming auction, Oct 25, Lot #0885

Found the set at auction - thanks for the tip!

Springfield Steve