I do not understand MTH and Lionel

 

A couple of these questions cannot be answered without seeing Lionel and MTH accounting numbers.  Just because something flew off the shelves, or conversely, had stock until an eventual blowout, does not tell you if they were profitable or not.

 

As long as the Lionel and MTH accounting books are secret, there is no answer to be had to these questions.

Rusty

With all the howling there once was about "reproductions" destroying the value of

older collectibles, I cannot imagine reproducing old catalogs and artwork.  I have no

interest in even the old, for Lionel, but new repro....probably have to measure that in negative numbers.   There are a tremendous number of railroad rolling stock items never modeled in three rail.  I don't want reproductions, and reruns, of anything. I have a lot more, and different questions, but have expressed them on other threads.  McDonald's ain't gonna tell you what it actually costs to scorch a McDouble and throw it at you, so Lionel and MTH accounting numbers, for very logical competitive reasons, are "classified".  Everybody is the center of their universe, and has their own pet railroad(s).  And many of us complain on here that nothing in those roadnames is offered.  We are outnumbered by the majority's favorites, so it is conform (no chance of that here) or modify and scratchbuild, or vote with our dollars and sit on them,

until something of interest is offered.  Here, too, we are outvoted.

Over the years I've asked, why make a Dreyfuss Hudson but not matching cars? Or how about more recent.. Why  no Pere Marquette or MCRR caboose for the expensive cataloged engines???  

You ask good questions but with Lionel, it can easily be summed up in three words "the bottom line"

Joe

"5) Everyone seems to love all those old Lionel catalog art, advertisements, and box art.
Why not bring that back?"

Truth is advertising situation dating to the 1970's. Artist renderings of 65 Pontiacs that look like they are 2 miles long don't fly in our litigated consumer world today.

I have not bought anything new from MTH or Lionel since both now require you to buy command control locos and do not offer conventional only locos. There are plenty of used conv locos so I buy there now. 

I would like them to continue the scale model qualities. MTH would please never go back to fit the box diminsions. Lionel has made some beautiful 1/48 scale rolling stock. I hope they keep it up! Maybe kadee mounting pads and bolsters?

The LHS's and on line stores were gld to get rid of them. Many of the CC's were dogs.

 

I think if you do a google search you may find some of the bigger Lionel dealers have a few of the sets.

Which ones were dogs?

As in performance or sales?

Was not there an issue with the GG1?

3) Both Lionel and MTH make and sell C-420s...is it really that hard to paint one in Long island Railroad livery?
Last time Lionel made a LIRR C-420 they flew off the shelves...heck...seems anything LIRR flys off the shelves, yet...it has been forever since we saw a C-liner.
You would think based on MTH and Lionels product offerings, that the LIRR only used RS's.

First, MTH has never made an Alco C-420.

Second, MTH has done two runs of FM C-Liners for LIRR.  20-2414-1 in the 2002Volume 2  catalog, and 20-2732-1 in the 2007 Volume 1 catalog.  So its not quite "forever" since they've been produced.  Who knows, maybe they'll have them in the upcoming 2015 Volume 1 catalog in October?

 

Stuart

 

I am under the impression that most PWC and CC items have not held their value for resale.

 

Exceptions that come to mind are (pieces that have held their value or command a premium):

Texas Special F3 locos (were they PWC?)

PWC flat with bulldozer

PWC flat with crane

PWC Mercury Capsule car.

 

Of course I could be wrong.

The PWCS, and the Conventional Classics-I would absolutely love to see them return. They were something I really, really enjoyed collecting. While I like collecting what we see on the rails today, I've been kind of in a "now what do I buy" phase without having them to look forward to.

 

Bill

As has been mentioned, it can be hard to answer questions like these without a knowledge of the actual numbers involved. I think the 990 issue is resolved, as it is shipping.

 

i'd think there would be a market for a Manufacturer's Rwy Alco switcher, and that this would be a natural for Lionel. The Atlas MRS MP15dc is sure impossible to find.

 

Jeff C

I get the impression they are struggling with issues of supply and demand alongside parts issues. Not an enviable position to be in. 

I ran across parts issues for my one tiny Super-Chuffer project, a capacitor I was using had a 22 week lead time!  I had to find a substitute for my next run of boards!  We used to run into parts issues when I was working in the Aerospace field all the time, nature of the beast.  We also had manufacturers change a part's characteristics without changing the part number of even warning anyone that it's really a different part.

 

Sound familiar?

4) Thank goodness for Lionel LionCheif and MTH RailKing...if not for these 2 product lines, folks who cannot afford to spend $500-$2,000, can get a great train with all kinds of features that look great at a great price, and not have to go with a conventional starter set with less features and performance.

Agree?

 

AGREE!   I am very much enamored with my LC+ locos.   I have three, and a fourth on order.   I can't really run more than three locos concurrently, so thats three remotes to juggle.   No problem so far.  

 

My hope is for LC+ releases in Lionel's beautiful FT passenger sets, LC+ in the baby berkshire with whistle-steam, and LC+ in the 0-8-0 with the upgraded running gear.

 

 

Totally agree on Part shortage or Substitution problems.

Having that issue right now at work.

Maker lost their supply of a part and we cannot get displays for our Flagship product !!!

Much energy expended finding an alternate source. I'm now VERY Glad we designed the board accept 3 different displays despite the difficulty of doing so. Turns out 2 of them had the same sub-part issue ! We did get some of the 3rd in time to continue production but we are stretched thin on them.

 

Now, As to Price Point; I'm with the Railking & LionChief group and such for cost. I have ONE scale Big Steam Engine and it was made Pre 2000 and I got it used this year.

I simply cannot justify the costs of new Scale Steam Engines.

Chipset, When did MTH make an O scale ALCO C-420?  I have never seen one so I was curious?  I have seen and bought the Lionel version in multiple paint schemes but no MTH.

 

Thanks,

Glenn

MTH never marketed a C-420

Just about everything has been made for the LIRR.

You just have to monitor the market and MFG's.

 

MP70, P70’s, M1’s  are too long for most layouts however it would be nice for MTH to market the Ping Pongs.

It’s a risk with new tooling attempting to produce 70’ cars especially in this recession for a hand full of customers. Remember, the Santa crowd dominates the market.

 

IMW has some of these items but they are not set up for the 3 rail market.

If MTH expects a future in the saturated US market, they will have to do more specialty cars with new tooling.

 

There have been several opportunities to pick up the Lionel LIRR C420’s.

I can think of 4 occasions in the last few years that they were available either on ebay or OGR.

Even RMT Walter had some for sale.

 

Also, Lionel made a second run of them.

So if modelers hesitated then, chances are you won’t buy them next time at a higher price.

 

There are always wishful talkers but who actually gets out the plastic when the product is available, that’s a different story.

Wishful thinking on my part and a freudian slip...

I know SIRT...I missed every run of those C-420s...aaarrrggghhh

 

Hi Chipset

 

I agree with your point number 4.

 

"4) Thank goodness for Lionel LionCheif and MTH RailKing...if not for these 2 product lines, folks who cannot afford to spend $500-$2,000, can get a great train with all kinds of features that look great at a great price, and not have to go with a conventional starter set with less features and performance.

Agree?"

 

• • • I am a big fan of RailKing engines & rolling stock. The best part is the MTH •  TIU • Trainmaster • and the Hand Held DCS Remote Control. This system controls all my Lionel & MTH engines. It is my understanding that Lionel Legacy will not control MTH Engines. Is this true?

Gary;

Correct, Lionel's system cannot control MTH equipment, but MTH's doesn't do Lionel's too much better. Sure, a TMCC or Legacy command base can be connected to the TIU and the DCS Remote will control them (in TMCC mode only) thru the base. That's because Lionel's TMCC used an open source command code.

DCS code is not open, so Lionel cannot access it. TMCC mode cannot access the more powerful Legacy functions at all so a Legacy engine really deserves a Legacy Command system.

To be honest, I have Full DCS and a Full TMCC setup. Why? you may ask. Simple, the TMCC Crane is too complicated to operate without the overlay on the Cab 1 remote. Running it with the DCS Remote is frustrating ! the buttons are not ergonomic or logical for it. On the Cab 1 with overlay they are labeled for much easier operation.

I actually keep that overlay taped to the Cab 1 all the time.

All my TMCC engines are operated with the DCS Remote but not that crane.

Some TMCC engines operate better under DCS/TMCC than with the cab 1. Some limitation of the Cab 1 itself I suspect.

Hey, how about the Other Island, Staten Island?  Lionel and MTH have modeled plenty of obscure, even one-of-a-kind units, why not the Staten Island Railway BL20s?  Gosh, they could even paint 'em up for MNCR.

 

Yes, that is correct.

I’ve been hesitating dumping a bunch of money into this IMW SIRT shell project from what I discovered so far.

Waiting to see the final product and other decals supplied for the B&O blue grey scheme.

As I stated above, the amount of layouts supporting 70' cars vs.others are limited along with the niche market demand.

 

LIRR steam has been neglected much more than LIRR diesels!

I agree Gary, I bought my MTH DCS system back in the early 2000s and never looked back!

I never upgraded it either....I could see no reason to fix what was not broken and worked perfectly!

It can control them in conventional mode when using either a TPC or Legacy Powermaster.

I thought Nassau hobbies had some LIRR items made by MTH.