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I can't say I'm amazed- because the price of EVERYTHING is getting expensive these days! What DOES amaze me is that there are so many folks who have the amount of disposable income that they can spend on this hobby. Obviously Lionel wouldn't be manufacturing engines they can charge a grand and-a-half for unless there were people who will buy them. I don't happen to be one of them. I've pretty much stopped buying anything new and have to settle on being content with what I already own. Of course, just maintaining the status quo eventually leads to boredom and loss of interest in the hobby. 

Last edited by Cooper Eastman

old trains(or new),old cars, they can be as expensive as you want it to be. I've got a '69 Plymouth road runner that's been ready for paint for a couple years. Then the furnace died. This winter our car died. So now we have a car payment for the first time in 6 years. The paint my body guy wants to use is $1000.Not going to happen. So I found paint for $200.

I couldn't go with the expensive paint even if I wanted to, because my old cars get driven, and I'd go nuts seeing $1000 paint with chips and scratches.

 There are some beautiful steam locomotives I'd love to have, but at the prices they are, never going to happen. This week I got a Marx $10 steamer, and I love it.

Originally Posted by Cooper Eastman:

. I've pretty much stopped buying anything new and have to settle on being content with what I already own. Of course, just maintaining the status quo eventually leads to boredom and loss of interest in the hobby. 

Pretty much nailed it... For me there's nothing about running the same train(s) no matter how exceptional they may be that compares with a time not long ago when collecting was king. Its what got me back into the hobby. Today I've sold off most of what I collected with no regrets.

For me, operating trains has always been a winter sport, secondary to spending available free time working on a layout that I hope will never get finished.

I'm happy

Joe

 

Last edited by JC642

Name any hobby, and you'll find varying levels of expense. How about skiing? Some here in NE Ohio ski the bunny hills for probably less than $1,000 per season; others buy 7-figure ski chalets in Vail.  Or bicycling....there are  $100-$200 bikes at department stores and $5,000 bikes at specialty shops. Model railroading has the same variations so that people across the income spectrum can enjoy.

Originally Posted by wb47:

How much was spent on trains back in the 50s by retirees living on "fixed income"? I know my grandparents spent nothing. 

Speaking from my experience, "Enough". My grandpa enjoyed Std Gauge Lionel in the 30's, 40's & early 50's. I inherited his trains and his layout upon his death in 1955. His great-grandchildren and great-great grandchildren enjoyed his trains as well. I made sure of it.

Originally Posted by Happy Pappy:
Originally Posted by wb47:

How much was spent on trains back in the 50s by retirees living on "fixed income"? I know my grandparents spent nothing. 

Speaking from my experience, "Enough". My grandpa enjoyed Std Gauge Lionel in the 30's, 40's & early 50's. I inherited his trains and his layout upon his death in 1955. His great-grandchildren and great-great grandchildren enjoyed his trains as well. I made sure of it.

Pappy,

 

It would be interesting to know how many of his Std Gauge Lionel your grandpa bought after he retired.  Like wb47 I know my fraternal grandparents bought very little in retirement; at least I saw nothing new in their house (they had a great old car he kept running until he could no longer drive).  While they lived comfortably in the house they owned, my mom, aunts and uncles would pay for their vacations which were trips to family events.  They had no money for extras like a train hobby.

 

On the other hand, I'm retired (completely) and have excess funds for this hobby that my grandparents and parents never had.  Maybe I'm the one that is causing the prices of our hobby going through the roof; I do buy the new scale trains (if PRR) with all the goodies.  Would I like them to be cheaper-sure.  But I do not complain because these trains look so much better and do so much more than the trains available when I was a kid.

It's expensive if you're a newcomer to the hobby. I doubt there are many young people coming into the hobby at the current price points that the importer's/manufacturer's are asking, but, that isn't the market they're looking for. They're looking for you and me. Established in the hobby, a little extra spending cash, and on-line places to discuss them.

 

Multiple replies have been made to this topic on how to get by "on the cheap", and all of them are good. If you've got to have the latest and greatest scale, feature laden, brand name item, though, they're not much help, and all the importer's have set the price high. Nothing wrong with that, either. My experience has been, if I want an item bad enough, I'll get it. Save up, work overtime, whatever. Where there's a will there's a way. Fortunately, I don't want that much.

 

I don't envy the big buyers, and I don't belittle the budget buyer. We're lucky enough to have all price points available to us. Some of the most expensive layouts I've ever seen are poorly modelled, for lack of a better term, and some of the cheapest are very well modelled. I sometimes cringe when I see a huge layout feature in a magazine and see a long row of plastic buildings that look like plastic buildings. I smile when I see a small layout with a couple buildings that look real. Same goes for track and scenery.

 

The hobby is a hobby, and the price is the price. We all have a choice.

Originally Posted by brr:

It's expensive if you're a newcomer to the hobby. I doubt there are many young people coming into the hobby at the current price points that the importer's/manufacturer's are asking, but, that isn't the market they're looking for. They're looking for you and me. Established in the hobby, a little extra spending cash, and on-line places to discuss them.

 

Multiple replies have been made to this topic on how to get by "on the cheap", and all of them are good. If you've got to have the latest and greatest scale, feature laden, brand name item, though, they're not much help, and all the importer's have set the price high. Nothing wrong with that, either. My experience has been, if I want an item bad enough, I'll get it. Save up, work overtime, whatever. Where there's a will there's a way. Fortunately, I don't want that much.

 

I don't envy the big buyers, and I don't belittle the budget buyer. We're lucky enough to have all price points available to us. Some of the most expensive layouts I've ever seen are poorly modelled, for lack of a better term, and some of the cheapest are very well modelled. I sometimes cringe when I see a huge layout feature in a magazine and see a long row of plastic buildings that look like plastic buildings. I smile when I see a small layout with a couple buildings that look real. Same goes for track and scenery.

 

The hobby is a hobby, and the price is the price. We all have a choice.

This is a good reply. In my case, I'm young, in school, and don't have a lot to spend, but also prefer postwar and don't need VL Big Boys to be happy. I can find plenty to enjoy in my price point, and, maybe one day, I'll buy that Congressional set, but for now I'll get by with what I can afford. The good thing for me (not for sellers) is that postwar is really affordable right now.

Originally Posted by Andrew B.:
Originally Posted by brr:

It's expensive if you're a newcomer to the hobby. I doubt there are many young people coming into the hobby at the current price points that the importer's/manufacturer's are asking, but, that isn't the market they're looking for. They're looking for you and me. Established in the hobby, a little extra spending cash, and on-line places to discuss them.

 

Multiple replies have been made to this topic on how to get by "on the cheap", and all of them are good. If you've got to have the latest and greatest scale, feature laden, brand name item, though, they're not much help, and all the importer's have set the price high. Nothing wrong with that, either. My experience has been, if I want an item bad enough, I'll get it. Save up, work overtime, whatever. Where there's a will there's a way. Fortunately, I don't want that much.

 

I don't envy the big buyers, and I don't belittle the budget buyer. We're lucky enough to have all price points available to us. Some of the most expensive layouts I've ever seen are poorly modelled, for lack of a better term, and some of the cheapest are very well modelled. I sometimes cringe when I see a huge layout feature in a magazine and see a long row of plastic buildings that look like plastic buildings. I smile when I see a small layout with a couple buildings that look real. Same goes for track and scenery.

 

The hobby is a hobby, and the price is the price. We all have a choice.

This is a good reply. In my case, I'm young, in school, and don't have a lot to spend, but also prefer postwar and don't need VL Big Boys to be happy. I can find plenty to enjoy in my price point, and, maybe one day, I'll buy that Congressional set, but for now I'll get by with what I can afford. The good thing for me (not for sellers) is that postwar is really affordable right now.

Oh, and my best friend is into it as well, also postwar. My roommates at school here aren't into trains enough to build their own layouts, but all three enjoy holiday layouts and gardens, and have a Christmas tree setup. There's probably more young people interested than you'd think, but money and other hobbies/interests have them for now. As I've said before, I think this is a hobby you get into as a kid, leave for a while and come back to as an older person with fond memories. We just need to be sure people get the exposure as kids and find a reason to come back, and that means being open and friendly.

 

Originally Posted by Balshis:

... people who can afford them are appalled by people who can't.

 

Somewhat of an irony, isn't it?  But I don't think we should be quick to generalize across the board.

 

I started this thread as a somewhat humorous view of how quickly prices have escalated in recent years.  And was curious if anyone else thought the same.  Some did and some didn't, which is absolutely fine.  But a few folks did more complaining about "the thought that folks were complaining" than any actual complaining we did here at all.  They're still "complaining" about it over on another thread today.  

 

I guess I'm now more amazed about that phenomenon, than I was about the pricing trends that inspired me to post this thread in the first place.    And just to clarify here on that point... I'm making an observation -- not complaining one iota.  And certainly not appalled by it.  There are only so many things in life that we can control, and how everyone chooses to think ain't one of them.  

 

Don't sweat the little stuff.  There are still lots of ways to enjoy this hobby, but I'll also confess I'm as guilty as the next model train enthusiast for making some big purchases from time to time.  There are worse ways to spend money, for sure. 

 

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

Prices have gone up, no question, but so have the following:

  • Wage averages
  • Quality of products
  • New products

The bottom line is that I could never have been able to afford to have someone scratchbuild any ten-wheelers for my prototype. And even so, they never would have looked as good or ran as fine as the Bachmann ones I now have in On30.

I just finished a caboose kit which while expensive (about $85 for the kit alone), scratchbuilding it myself would have cost way more in the time it'd have taken with all the fiddling to get it right.

If it costs more, it's because it's worth more and you get what you pay for.

Overall, I think this is a healthy way of discussing today's marketplace. To a certain extent it is a way for many people to vent their frustrations and feelings about costs.

 

Likewise, it is also a way for everyone to send a message to the Manufacturers.

 

Its a tough balancing act. I get the idea the Manufacturers need to keep a tight control on inventory. The tough part is balancing that with the need to keep the "Base" happy with desirable products.

 

We, in the hobby, need to do what we can to keep it viable. The scary thing to me, is that the age of many of us is creeping higher and higher and there seems to be a lack of younger hobbiests getting into the Hobby. That needs to change or we will be headed for trouble eventually.

With the upper end products that is the strategy,they have large margins
with a limited market. It is telling that in the current economy that the
only winners have been high end retailers...In theory,if the manufacturers
too a gamble,cut costs on the high end stuff,they would make up w volume
what they lose in margin.The problem I think is that they found out even
cutting prices the volume wouldn't be there so they do what they do. This
is what happens in niche markets,the technology in these trains is not
spectacular,but rather a small market means expensive products that
compared to the mass market are not as innovative.People look at the price
of tv's and computers, then look at the price of a legacy engine,and say
how can this be?We are used to high tech becoming cheaper and more
powerful,not expensive and getting moreso.
On Apr 28, 2015 11:13 AM, "O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum" <
alerts@hoop.la> wrote:

Wage averages for most workers has been stagnant according to economists. They top wage earners are doing well but the larger sector of the buying public is not. It would appear that manufactures might be aiming at selling fewer high end products to fewer buyers.

The wages that apply here are the wages in the countries where the model trains are being made.  More recently the wages in China and most Oriental countries have been rising considerably.  Prices are based on what it costs to make the trains.

 

For quite some time, the hobby benefited from the very low wages in China and other Oriental countries.  It's unrealistic to expect the bonanza would last indefinitely. 

 

Relative to what I can afford and relative to how much I value what the hobby gives me, I'm not bothered by the expense. Although I don't buy trains as an investment they will hold their value for a long time I imagine. The flip side is that I can buy used products of all kinds still in excellent condition for much less than today's retail.

Well, sorta.  They are worth more IF (and ONLY if) the features are improtant to you. 
 
I do not equate features with quality.  An example:  Lionel PreWar Standard Gauge was very high quality but had few of the features common today.
 
If someone wants what is nothing more than a brand new PostWar engine, then the higher cost driven by the electronics is not added value.
 
You may get what you pay for, but, if you don't want what you have to pay for, you won't buy it.
 
Originally Posted by p51:

Prices have gone up, no question, but so have the following:

  • Wage averages
  • Quality of products
  • New products

The bottom line is that I could never have been able to afford to have someone scratchbuild any ten-wheelers for my prototype. And even so, they never would have looked as good or ran as fine as the Bachmann ones I now have in On30.

I just finished a caboose kit which while expensive (about $85 for the kit alone), scratchbuilding it myself would have cost way more in the time it'd have taken with all the fiddling to get it right.

If it costs more, it's because it's worth more and you get what you pay for.

 

Originally Posted by C W Burfle:
Many times things are priced according to what the market will bare.

Toy trains are no exception.

I'm not into 3-rail, but a guy I once knew said, "They could slap a Lionel logo on darned near anything, and someone would buy it, just to say they have it."

I think there might be a point to the idea of making small numbers of things, priced high, to appeal to people if his ilk (I never had much time for ilk). False economy? Sure, but it works...

Amazed that we keep having threads like this unless they are rhetorical...

 

Expensive compared to what hobby:

 

Aviation?

Boating?

Fishing?

RC Aviation?

RC Cars?

Coin Collecting?

Gun Collecting?

Hunting?

Car Collecting?

Antique Collecting?

Golf?

Tennis?

 

etc...

 

Just like all hobbies, there are many aspects and many levels to participate from entry level to the "big bucks."

 

If a hobby feels too expensive, than you are participating at the wrong level. 

 

Champagne tastes and with only a beer budget.

 

I guess the way I look at it, we are lucky its not Aviation, Car Collecting and Restoration where it requires significant funds just to be "entry level."

 

I feel lucky to have so many choices and the ability to enjoy what I have.  No one is holding a gun to anyone's head making you spend more than you feel comfortable with.  Remember, we do hobbies to relax or enjoy our free time and ultimately make us feel happy.

 

 

 
 
Last edited by pmilazzo

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