Skip to main content

quote:    "Moving onward looking at the O scale Samhongsa 1989 run piece imported by Dan McKey of Key Imports we can see obvious improvement and despite a 30+ year old piece still stands its ground well as one of the finest PA models produced along with its 1:32 counterparts also produced in 1989-1990 by master builder Samhongsa"

 

 

Were these the Samhongsa models of the PA that MTH used in the late 1980s for his first run of PA's done for Lionel and later his own Premiere line? You mention the Gauge 1 models too. Are these the MTH large scale PA's in 1:32?

 

How do Lionel's recent (2003+) PA's fare up under careful scrutiny?

Last edited by c.sam

Taking the time to rivet count and really closely inspect these models reveals that 2010 run is really a remarkable model. The detail is fantastic, even for Key. The 1989 model is quite nice too, but not in the same league as the 2010 run. Thanks for bringing this back forward Erik I missed it the 1st time around.

 

Butch 

A buddy wanted to see the differences between the Samhongsa 1989 run PA's and the 2010 Key Model Imports version by FM Train Model.

Amazing how technology has improved models. No comparison. Hey those old Samhongsa's were fabulous in the day; I was in elementary school.

Installing state of the art Lok Sound from ESU and seeing 18 lightbulbs glimmer is a true treat and feast for the eyes!

Here you are Mike.
Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
Jim all of the models featured in this thread are straight out of the box "ready to run" plop on the track and hit the address in the remote!

Except of course the old Samhongsa's they belong to a member of a club I was formally in once.  Those I'm sure are still dc in any case instead of keying in the address you turn up the dial.

imageimageimageimageimageimage

Attachments

Images (6)
  • image
  • image
  • image
  • image
  • image
  • image
Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
Originally Posted by Brother_Love:

I think the PA is the most handsome locomotive that has ever run the rails. The pictures are great too. The only thing prettier is a PA painted in GM&O colors.

 

Malcolm

Seems to me that converting a Williams Alco FA to the unique GM&O headlight arrangement would be a great project for you! And then an Ingalls unit, ano then...

 

Jeff C 

Originally Posted by Rule292:

 ...

Would love to find some of the last run PRR units.   Wouldn't know how to identify them though and I don't want to think of what a P:48 conversion would entail.

Minimum, regauging the wheels, which is not difficult to do.  Replacing the wheels with correct .115 treadwidth, not so easy but not that difficult.  But then pulling in the truck side frames?  Yeah that would be really painful as some of the bolster elements would have to be replaced with shorter ones that do not exist.  

Erik, since you are the resident PA expert, would you be able to share what are the identifying differences between the KEY PA runs?  I know you said the 1989 run is Samhongsa versus the 2010 run which is FM ?

Are the builders marked on the boxes or on the models themselves?

Is the FM train model connected to the FM of the 1990's that built brass? 

I'd want to acquire a set of the last run but I'm still pondering what road to get!   

rdunniii posted:
Erik C Lindgren posted:

Richard, is Scott planning on a P48 version in plastic?

Scott does not do P48.  However, I am working with someone to try and come up with 40" P48 wheelsets for 3rd rail diesels.

Boy talk about a senior moment.  I've already had P48 axles made for Protocraft 40" wheels for 3rd rail diesels I'm working with someone to have 44" P48 wheels made for Overland SD70s.

Thanks Richard and Rheil. I wasn't sure. I would certainly start buying P48 equipment if offered. I don't have the courage to take on converting anything I have now. 

Rule292,

In my humble opinion the 2010 PA is one of the finest detailed American diesels ever produced. The full engine room and lighting on these models is incredible. For an out of the of the box affair; I am still amazed they pulled it off. This is the sort of thing you see on Euromodell or other high end Japanese or European brass. The market in Europe is vastly different than ours. They simply don't have the blurry distinction between 3 Rail oversizing or gigantism of details and track. Pleasing both of these markets and adding in P48 makes our market very difficult to produce models like this.

Here are some nice links to some Japanese models being produced to the level I like:

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks88.html

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks81.html

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks65.htm

 

I send my deepest respect to any importer like Key Model, Midwestern Model, Division Point, PSC, Protocraft, and any other that is willing to even ponder producing equipment like this for us these days. This is a tough nut to crack. So many buyers are happy with "good enough.." and not demanding it all like the Europeans or the Japanese.

The early E units.. ? The bodies certainly are as nice however the engine room detail is simply an etching; this concept was started back in the 90's at Challenger Imports in HO (Samhongsa). The latest FT's did have the detailing such as steam generators and such seen from the wide doorways.  Also piping along the frame above the trucks is present on both the E and FT's so Key did follow the same fastidiousnous that was applied to the PA where possible in the design. I do agree that the PA was a better detailed model. Certainly the trucks are amazing while the F's and E's are mostly side frame detail and none of the internal workings seen on the PA trucks. 

I don't believe this detracts from the E or F's at all. It's different and not sure how to explain it without coming off erroneously. 

Sadly I believe this was the last call on Models of this caliber in o scale. The market is slowly diminishing and at this point even a plastic model designed for both 3 Rail and scale is a blessing. 

 

Some more interesting links to a builder in Korea doing what I really think is cool  

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks90.html

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/new/new59C.htm

Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Rule292,

For me it's all about the passion and the pursuit for perfection.  Oh yeah and authenticity. Plastic or brass, makes no difference to me what it's made of as long as it's right. 

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/new/new79b.html

 

below is another one of the best American prototypes produced by our friends at ATM..

9D0A963A-BB3B-4E4F-818C-9EF61AE2B5D9-8649-000011A916EA5575_tmp

http://coloradooscale.org/revi...hotos-omis-sd70aces/

AF7967D9-9EA9-4367-9957-A12721D58749-8649-000011A6C11E5230_tmp

My very good friend Jack Vansworth took this of Mr Jae-Gil (his American name) of ATM of him with one of my SD70's and here he is working on Japanese models. He's an amazing guy! 

1AF209E6-340C-4380-ABD3-116BF3EAA8EC-8649-000011A51EC02E04_tmp

Here is Mr Jae-Gil working on this amazing 1:80 EF65  

D5C7CBC8-5E91-43E1-B286-4466743800B6-8649-000011A7FCAE49EB_tmpCC63E031-6622-4ED3-9784-30D6E47C4F4E-8649-000011A7F60356BA_tmpE8F3DBDA-E311-4B1B-8EF4-5F7F6B0D75D3-8649-000011A7EF1B572E_tmp

FDBAB706-037B-4D70-854C-2184DE8877B7-8649-000011A9817CC56A_tmp

Attachments

Images (7)
  • AF7967D9-9EA9-4367-9957-A12721D58749-8649-000011A6C11E5230_tmp
  • 1AF209E6-340C-4380-ABD3-116BF3EAA8EC-8649-000011A51EC02E04_tmp
  • D5C7CBC8-5E91-43E1-B286-4466743800B6-8649-000011A7FCAE49EB_tmp
  • CC63E031-6622-4ED3-9784-30D6E47C4F4E-8649-000011A7F60356BA_tmp
  • E8F3DBDA-E311-4B1B-8EF4-5F7F6B0D75D3-8649-000011A7EF1B572E_tmp
  • 9D0A963A-BB3B-4E4F-818C-9EF61AE2B5D9-8649-000011A916EA5575_tmp
  • FDBAB706-037B-4D70-854C-2184DE8877B7-8649-000011A9817CC56A_tmp
Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Incredible detailing on the HO model, if I am reading correctly based on the date and conversion value at that time its a 3K + model, obviously the market outside the US is more receptive to these products, although the HO collectors market here still supports this market [ perhaps not quite to the detail model pictured] Coach Yard, DP etc JMO

Last edited by hibar
Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks Richard and Rheil. I wasn't sure. I would certainly start buying P48 equipment if offered. I don't have the courage to take on converting anything I have now.

The change in gauge is not the significant visual change, for locomotives or rolling stock, for someone that already has OW5 track, it's the change in the treadwidth that is huge.  Changing the treadwidth from .145 to .115 allows you to pull the sideframes in more than 1/8" (in some cases more than 3/8" for repurposed O Gauge trucks) and is very noticeable; at least to me.  It allows all those things that interfere with truck rotation, stirrups, pilots, etc, to get out of the way.

Some of Gary Schrader's Youtube videos regarding the Key cab forwards discuss this.  The Midwestern SD45s will be available in both gauges with .115 wheels and Erik says the difference is not noticeable, the truck sideframes are spaced the same distance apart on both.  The same is true for Protocraft trucks.

Of course if you don't already have OW5 track...  The track is noticeably different to me too for less than 1/10" difference.

Last edited by rdunniii

IMG_8199IMG_8200Richard I am well aware of the differences in P48 to OW5... 

We are importing more RS's in P48 than 5' gauge an interesting note  

I have owned several P48 masterpiece custom built models over the years. I prefer the look of P48 over 5' gauge for the biggest reason the scale trackwork and its associated detailing. 

I see it all the time like you said even though it's a small distance of 1/10 or 1/16 of an inch. Funny how we are discussing this on the 3 Rail forum.

Thank you for the response 

Erik

Attachments

Images (2)
  • IMG_8199
  • IMG_8200
Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×