LED lighting for dark Trolleys

 Just a thought for simplicity. Could they purchase one of your boards from Hennings

and add a super cap to the output ? That would be about as simple as it gets.

If that works it also might be neat to add the super cap with slightly different

values to a set of passenger cars.

that way when the train stops for the night the lights would stay on for a few seconds and then go off randomly as if the crew were shutting them down for the night..

My board is a constant current board, so the charging of the super-cap would be very slow.  The board was purpose-built specifically to directly power LED lighting, not what is needed for this application.

As far as the 12V stripe LEDs, Interesting enough, I drive them off the PS-2 light circuit.  I have stringed 4 together off one P-2 light circuit with no issues.  Used them to light the interior of some Electrics for a customer.  G

You have a PWM waveform of more than 12V on the lighting circuit, so it makes sense that they would light.  However, the trolleys in question don't have PS/2.

I realize the trolley is not PS-2, I have repaired quite a few. 

The PS-2 lights are rated 6V and though the voltage available is higher, I thought the PWM average was closer to 6V.

Regardless, just pointing out that the stripe LED run on less than 12V.  G

George, the LED strip doesn't run on 6V, you are running it on a chopped waveform that hits around 20 volts.  With plain old 6 volts, you won't get any light.  They start lighting around 8.5-9.0 volts DC, a bit lower with AC. 

 Reversing:

These are bump-and-go trolleys but that feature is not used. It’s not needed when two trolleys are on a loop with one stop or for three trolleys on a larger loop with two stops.  I did use that just as an example in starting this thread. 

In truth, our track consists of two reversing loops connected by a long track connecting two areas on a 25’ x 25’ layout.  So our trolleys don’t actually reverse but go back and forth on that long track because they turn around on the reversing loops.

Stop Circuit: (3 insulated outside rails and 1 wire) 

There is a trolley stop on each reversing loop.  They are track sections where both outside rails are insulted making them dead tracks.  Trolleys start when one of these rails receives power as an approaching trolley runs over a single outside rail insulated track.    

Transformer:  1 side of a Z4000   (Because it’s what we have available)

So I assume there is no timer and 1 trolley starts after the other stops. Only 1 trolley runs at a time? Still not clear on the circuit used. Since the trolleys only run in 1 direction you do not need directional lighting

 If the trolley stop circuit uses relays or is converted to that, then all that would be needed is blocking diodes in each trolley and diodes from the transformer to make the stop circuit. 5 volts could stop the trolley and 12 volts would run the trolleys. The lights could remain on when the trolley stalls.

With this method,you could leave the light bulbs if you are happy with the lighting intensity at 5 volts or convert to LEDs. Only small caps would be needed for LEDs to reduce flicker.

I assume these are just bump and go trolleys run in a single direction.

No Circuit!  Just one wire!  It's simple.  See Sketch.  As much as I want to do this and appreciate the help, I think I choose what seemed best.  But I'm done with this thread.  I'm not capable of understanding or doing this any more. 

The stop and start is not broken.  Why would I want to change it.  Besides, I'm having enough trouble trying to figure out I should buy.  I've gone over the entire thread and it's not clear to me yet.  There are items on the drawing not not found in any conversation. The comment of a power supply referred to on Ebay in the past means nothing to me  The recommended supplier for the supercaps does have resistors.  There are 3 dozen suppliers for more than a half million combinations.

Before I left last week, I showed the plan to my friend and he understood it but had questions I couldn't answer.  I haven't seen him this week and if I did, I have nothing.  I've learned two things.  My idea is doable and I can't do it.  Thanks GRJ for the help. I will pursue this within the club from here on.

Over and out!

The stop and start is not broken. 

Yup... We have the same setup and it is wired the same way. The only thing we did

is add a second reversing loop and use 3 trolleys

I've learned two things.  My idea is doable and I can't do it.  Thanks GRJ for the help. I will pursue this within the club from here on.

Get it done. It's a GREAT idea. I know I'm going to do it with a couple of Lionel

trolley's I have. I'm sure some one in your club will come up with a simple solution.

Don't feel bad, We have a bunch of automotive engineers in our club that can't wire a relay.

Looking at the sketch you can still do it with a bunch of diodes. Just connect the voltage dropper diodes to one outer rail from the common on the stop block. The stopped (stalled)  trolley will stay lighted indefinitely at constant intensity stalled at around 5 volts.  

This is not the only way to do it. As mentioned you can do the LED and super capacitor route as well. But the intensity will fade as the car sits. I just use a 7805 circuit and button type 1 Farad capacitors on the regulated side, 1 for each LED usually. They mount easily on my lighting strips. Each cap is the size of about a nickle and a bit thicker. With this method my passenger cars stay lighted about 2 minutes when power is removed,gradually fading in intensity.

LINK

You probably could use the buck converter instead of the 7805.

For the trolley,2 LEDs and a 3mm head light LED should be sufficient.

Dale H

Dale, since he already has it working, and he doesn't want the headlights on when it's stopped, changing what works seems somewhat pointless.

There is no change to the stop start circuit with either method I suggested,just the addition of diodes and modification to each trolley for the first method. The advantage of the first method is that the lights would stay on indefinitely when stopped. No capacitors would be needed and lighting would be constant intensity.

Dale H

I think the OP has (understandably) moved on.

But as this is a discussion forum, I'll observe that it's the unique combination of requirements that allows a superCap to make for a practical solution. 

If the ratio of run-time to stop-time was different, it may have required a battery or something requiring continuous track power with a method to only cut power to the motor.

If the requirement was to keep incandescent bulbs running because LEDs were not perceived to provide the right kind of color or glow, it likely would require a method to cut power only to the motor.

If the traction devices were more than a bump-n-go (bridge-rectifier and DC can motor), and the requirement was to keep not just lights but sound and smoke active, some method to only cut power to the motor would be needed.

If this was a 2-rail application or some configuration where you couldn't use the insulated outer-rail method to control start/stop action, then again perhaps some method to cut power only to the motor would be needed.

In terms of out-of-pocket costs for components, I believe what Dale is proposing would be cheaper that the superCap approach.  And I believe there are additional lower cost methods to use continuous track power and cut power to just the motor.  But money isn't everything and the original post indicated a pre-disposition to a capacitor/LED solution which is indeed what he got.

So the train has left the station, the ship has sailed, etc.