lets see it running
Theres already video in this thread of the AFT running
Heres both
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Videos (1)
If you haven't seen the latest thread on the new GS-4s, check it out here: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...19#66610802157252119
This thread talks about the fix for the roof hatch.
Here Is the High Quality video I was promising of the new Lionel AFT GS-4.
Also, I have had a lot of questions about how I got it to smoke so well in the first video... Answer is simple, DO NOT FOLLOW LIONEL'S SMOKE UNIT RECOMENDATIONS... I have included my own filling recommendation in the video. Lionel is just protecting their own rear end. I believe Lionel allows some "wiggle room" in what they put in the manual for smoke units much like the elevator companies allow some "wiggle room" for how many people can ride an elevator. If 11 big guys hop on an elevator meant for 10 people, guess what, It's not gonna come crashing down... The main difference of note in my analogy is that smoke unit performance improves as you fill it past Lionel's recommendations, up to a certain point. I have found what I believe that point is and have included it in the following video... Enjoy
Whats even better with these GS4 smoke units.... they came with the rope style wick from the factory. That was a pleasant surprise when I opened mine up.
Guys,
On the right hand side of the engine, should there be another plate above the LIMA plate? I see an indentation, but no plate...
Nawlins posted:Guys,
On the right hand side of the engine, should there be another plate above the LIMA plate? I see an indentation, but no plate...
Yes, there SHOULD be, as that is the rectangular plate that commemorates the loan of 4449 by the people of Portland Oregon to the people of the United States for the American Freedom Train, 1975 thru 1976.
That plate is still there.
I suppose Lionel will mail those. This has happened before. I'll get on Talk to Us.
Nawlins posted:I suppose Lionel will mail those. This has happened before. I'll get on Talk to Us.
Also, if they are modeling the post Freedom Train "excursion era", then that plate should also be there.
Thanks, HW.
I'll keep y'all posted on the response I get...email has already been sent.
Good morning guys,
Got a response this morning...
I apologize for the inconvenience, however this item was produced without the “People’s Plate” and at this time there are not any plans for the plate to be manufactured.
big bummer!
Nawlins posted:Good morning guys,
Got a response this morning...
I apologize for the inconvenience, however this item was produced without the “People’s Plate” and at this time there are not any plans for the plate to be manufactured.big bummer!
Wonder what Mike R. has to say about this?
Hot Water posted:Laidoffsick posted:here's the email response I got from the manufacturer about the sound set and the cab vent:
This whistle file was chosen because it sounded closest to what he have heard in several recordings and to meet our customers concerns about all of the locomotives sounding the same.
Obviously they have NOT been listening to the CORRECT recordings of 4449!
You do have the option to take it to your dealer for a refund if you choose.
Wait, so does that mean you can't ship it to Lionel to change the whistle?
I don't mean to be negative, but I think the REAL reason why Lionel didn't get the whistle right is because they didn't want to increase the production cost. They reused the sound set of the GS-2, but changed the crew-talk, since investing into new sounds would cost more money. Plus, I still think they should come out with an update to the LEGACY computer software where you can customize the individual sounds of their products. That could be one way of correcting the whistle.
Hot Water posted:Nawlins posted:Good morning guys,
Got a response this morning...
I apologize for the inconvenience, however this item was produced without the “People’s Plate” and at this time there are not any plans for the plate to be manufactured.big bummer!
Wonder what Mike R. has to say about this?
Email him and ask.
Peter Araujo posted:I don't mean to be negative, but I think the REAL reason why Lionel didn't get the whistle right is because they didn't want to increase the production cost. They reused the sound set of the GS-2, but changed the crew-talk, since investing into new sounds would cost more money. Plus, I still think they should come out with an update to the LEGACY computer software where you can customize the individual sounds of their products. That could be one way of correcting the whistle.
Lionel already has the right whistle. it's the tone heard on the original 2007 release of the legacy gs4.
I've posted video of the 2007 legacy gs4 with the CORRECT whistle on many of these "new"gs4 threads for comparison.
For whatever reason, they simply chose not to use it. Imo , laziness or simply "dropping the ball".
The whistle steam NKP and PM Berkshires have the same original first run legacy whistle sounds added to the newer chuff and crew talk sounds.
The same thing could have been done with the new gs4.
This whistle issue, the missing plate and other issues discussed across the Lionel line assures I will never preorder again. BTW, I'm not thrilled with the spoked drivers that were supposed to be boxpoks on my ESE hudson.
All the while pushing the prices up to the stratosphere.
Get the details right, offer FREE return shipping on every loco needing warranty repairs. Do something to justify the cost....other than the same blue and orange box.
RickO posted:Peter Araujo posted:I don't mean to be negative, but I think the REAL reason why Lionel didn't get the whistle right is because they didn't want to increase the production cost. They reused the sound set of the GS-2, but changed the crew-talk, since investing into new sounds would cost more money. Plus, I still think they should come out with an update to the LEGACY computer software where you can customize the individual sounds of their products. That could be one way of correcting the whistle.
Lionel already has the right whistle. it's the tone heard on the original 2007 release of the legacy gs4.
I've posted video of the 2007 legacy gs4 with the CORRECT whistle on many of these "new"gs4 threads for comparison.
For whatever reason, they simply chose not to use it. Imo , laziness or simply "dropping the ball".
The whistle steam NKP and PM Berkshires have the same original first run legacy whistle sounds added to the newer chuff and crew talk sounds.
The same thing could have been done with the new gs4.
This whistle issue, the missing plate and other issues discussed across the Lionel line assures I will never preorder again. BTW, I'm not thrilled with the spoked drivers that were supposed to be boxpoks on my ESE hudson.
All the while pushing the prices up to the stratosphere.
Get the details right, offer FREE return shipping on every loco needing warranty repairs. Do something to justify the cost....other than the same blue and orange box.
Does that mean you can change the whistle through warranty?
Peter Araujo posted:Does that mean you can change the whistle through warranty?
Unless Lionel says they'll do it then no. The technology exists but it's up to Lionel if they create a sound file and then decide to make the change.
MartyE posted:Peter Araujo posted:Does that mean you can change the whistle through warranty?
Unless Lionel says they'll do it then no. The technology exists but it's up to Lionel if they create a sound file and then decide to make the change.
How about changing the "sound chip"? If there is indeed such a thing as there was with RS-4 and RS-5 systems, the "sound chip" could simply be replaced. Does the Legacy system still have "sound chips", and can they be changed-out?
Hot Water posted:MartyE posted:Peter Araujo posted:Does that mean you can change the whistle through warranty?
Unless Lionel says they'll do it then no. The technology exists but it's up to Lionel if they create a sound file and then decide to make the change.
How about changing the "sound chip"? If there is indeed such a thing as there was with RS-4 and RS-5 systems, the "sound chip" could simply be replaced. Does the Legacy system still have "sound chips", and can they be changed-out?
I suspect and I don't know this as fact, that they are incompatible. Quilling whistle and other sounds found in Legacy would present a problem as well.
Right now Lionel will not even send you a replacement Legacy sound board if it's bad without receiving the old one first.
MartyE posted:Hot Water posted:MartyE posted:Peter Araujo posted:Does that mean you can change the whistle through warranty?
Unless Lionel says they'll do it then no. The technology exists but it's up to Lionel if they create a sound file and then decide to make the change.
How about changing the "sound chip"? If there is indeed such a thing as there was with RS-4 and RS-5 systems, the "sound chip" could simply be replaced. Does the Legacy system still have "sound chips", and can they be changed-out?
I suspect and I don't know this as fact, that they are incompatible. Quilling whistle and other sounds found in Legacy would present a problem as well.
Sounds logical. So,,,,,,,how about the "sound chip" from the Legacy GS-4 models that came out a few years ago (the model with the incorrect main rod, but EXCELLENT sounds)?
Right now Lionel will not even send you a replacement Legacy sound board if it's bad without receiving the old one first.
Well then, since the sounds in the current GS-4 models are incorrect, could not a customer remove & return the "sound chip" from his current model, and request a CORRECT "sound chip" from the previous Legacy model?
Never heard of Wolfgang Puck, but the reference helped me solve a crossword puzzle today. The clue was Spago restaurateur. I had a w and a couple other letters but I knew it right away. Not as good as an omelette, but thanks anyway. Great story. That operation sounds first class all the way. Great name Wolfgang. I told my son to use that as his in German class.
The email response I got from Lionel said that they do not sell the Railsounds out right, they are exchange only. So I could send my new one in for an exchange/purchase on the older board with the correct whistle from 4436. However, even with the exchange I have to pay for the replacement Railsounds board which does show as available on their parts site.
I am still debating it.
Laidoffsick posted:The email response I got from Lionel said that they do not sell the Railsounds out right, they are exchange only. So I could send my new one in for an exchange/purchase on the older board with the correct whistle from 4436. However, even with the exchange I have to pay for the replacement Railsounds board which does show as available on their parts site.
I am still debating it.
Sir,
It is my understanding that the legacy board currently in your gs4 is a RCMC legacy board. The 2007 gs4 has modular legacy boards. I would ask Lionel if they are compatible. Just a warning.
RickO posted:...This whistle issue, the missing plate and other issues discussed across the Lionel line assures I will never preorder again. BTW, I'm not thrilled with the spoked drivers that were supposed to be boxpoks on my ESE hudson.
All the while pushing the prices up to the stratosphere.
Get the details right, offer FREE return shipping on every loco needing warranty repairs. Do something to justify the cost....other than the same blue and orange box.
RickO,
ALL of your points are well-noted... and eventually the new suits at Lionel will get the message. I've already stopped pre-ordering Lionel locomotives. My last pre-order items with Charlie Ro were mostly a couple of passenger car items and the series of WWII and Coke boxcars. That's it! I'm ready to purchase a couple of these new steam locomotives when dealers offer some SERIOUS discounts. But until that happens, no dice. The locomotives can sit on the shelves for months/years at current price-levels for all I care.
The "waiting for discounts" approach isn't foolproof, however. Since Lionel has effectively insulated itself from this consumer behavior , (i.e., by having its dealer/distributor base hold the risk of inventory management), I suspect, within a couple of more pre-order cycles, dealers will no longer continue ordering BTO "extra's" (on spec) to the same degree they've been doing for the last few catalogs. Some of the large dealers were still trying to sell those NYC ESE Hudsons above $1400 at York, and that dog just ain't gonna hunt anymore. They'll eventually get the message too.
So when dealers stop ordering BTO extra's, Lionel's production volumes will drop accordingly. And Lionel's way to offset/mitigate that is to raise the prices even further, so at the end of the day they can sell fewer locomotives but still maintain relatively stable revenue volumes. It's an awful strategy for the hobby's general well-being -- only really catering to those who choose to spend money regardless of the price. But I honestly don't see Lionel changing its ways -- at least not with the current set of executive management in place. Meanwhile, the dealers will be taking the hit when they're forced to sell locomotives at 10-20% (or more) off their pre-order prices. Who said BTO was good for the hobby? 
David
Santa Fe 3751 posted:Laidoffsick posted:The email response I got from Lionel said that they do not sell the Railsounds out right, they are exchange only. So I could send my new one in for an exchange/purchase on the older board with the correct whistle from 4436. However, even with the exchange I have to pay for the replacement Railsounds board which does show as available on their parts site.
I am still debating it.
Sir,
It is my understanding that the legacy board currently in your gs4 is a RCMC legacy board. The 2007 gs4 has modular legacy boards. I would ask Lionel if they are compatible. Just a warning.
If you use the exact sound chip from the original GS-4, it would say 4436 in the crew talk, along with downgrading some up to date features like sequence control, water & oil refill sounds, etc.
Rocky Mountaineer posted:So when dealers stop ordering BTO extra's, Lionel's production volumes will drop accordingly. And Lionel's way to offset/mitigate that is to raise the prices even further, so at the end of the day they can sell fewer locomotives but still maintain relatively stable revenue volumes. It's an awful strategy for the hobby's general well-being -- only really catering to those who choose to spend money regardless of the price. But I honestly don't see Lionel changing its ways -- at least not with the current set of executive management in place. Meanwhile, the dealers will be taking the hit when they're forced to sell locomotives at 10-20% (or more) off their pre-order prices. Who said BTO was good for the hobby?
David
I suppose that MTH and the rest that also do BTO but just don't call it that are also having the same issues?
Peter Araujo posted:Santa Fe 3751 posted:Laidoffsick posted:The email response I got from Lionel said that they do not sell the Railsounds out right, they are exchange only. So I could send my new one in for an exchange/purchase on the older board with the correct whistle from 4436. However, even with the exchange I have to pay for the replacement Railsounds board which does show as available on their parts site.
I am still debating it.
Sir,
It is my understanding that the legacy board currently in your gs4 is a RCMC legacy board. The 2007 gs4 has modular legacy boards. I would ask Lionel if they are compatible. Just a warning.
If you use the exact sound chip from the original GS-4, it would say 4436 in the crew talk, along with downgrading some up to date features like sequence control, water & oil refill sounds, etc.
Sir,
It is not the features that I am worried about, it is the compatibility between the early legacy (2006-2010) modular boards and the RCMC (2010-today) boards. With two different board designs, I am wondering if LOS can plug in the 2007 tech into 2016 tech. Things have come a long way in 9 years.
MartyE posted:...I suppose that MTH and the rest that also do BTO but just don't call it that are also having the same issues?
I think the big difference between Lionel and the other importers is the tendency of dealers to not order as many MTH, Atlas-O or 3rd Rail units on spec like they did for years with Lionel. And then when Lionel would have warehouse leftovers, they'd offer them to select dealers on the cheap. That didn't happen to any significant degree with the other importers. So BTO has changed the volume dynamics more for Lionel than other importers, and there are larger overheads that need to be absorbed in Lionel's business model as a result.
David
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Rocky Mountaineer posted:... I suspect we're looking at 2017 at this point before we see any of these passenger cars, since we'll never see them by year-end 2016 if they're not even on the factory floor yet....
Hhmmmm.... I just noticed Charlie Ro's latest "just in" flyer shows the first group of AFT passenger cars with a December delivery -- although it didn't say what year!
(DELETED ONE PARAGRAPH FROM ORIGINAL QUOTE)
So my money is still on a 2017 delivery of the AFT passenger cars. I'm sure we should get a bit more clarification at York. But at the end of the day, they arrive here when they arrive here.
David
Later on, Charles Ro (website) added the year, 2016, to the December 10 delivery, and this was still the case just earlier this week.
"So my money is still on a 2017 delivery of the AFT passenger cars." And you were right, David! I looked yesterday, and now they have 08/10/2017 as the delivery date for any of the sets of AFT passenger cars.
Alex
Peter Araujo posted:Santa Fe 3751 posted:Laidoffsick posted:The email response I got from Lionel said that they do not sell the Railsounds out right, they are exchange only. So I could send my new one in for an exchange/purchase on the older board with the correct whistle from 4436. However, even with the exchange I have to pay for the replacement Railsounds board which does show as available on their parts site.
I am still debating it.
Sir,
It is my understanding that the legacy board currently in your gs4 is a RCMC legacy board. The 2007 gs4 has modular legacy boards. I would ask Lionel if they are compatible. Just a warning.
If you use the exact sound chip from the original GS-4, it would say 4436 in the crew talk, along with downgrading some up to date features like sequence control, water & oil refill sounds, etc.
I don't use crew talk, and having those other sounds is not as important as having the correct whistle on this engine to me.
Maybe they should come out with a sound customizer for the LEGACY software after all. Or maybe even some Warbaby GS-4s with the Hancock 3-chime.
