Gigabyte posted:Hi George, interesting, I forgot about this, I have a bunch of older Seasonic and Corsair PSU's from older builds, that convert AC input to DC output, what do you think?
Those can work too, but get more complicated to connect. Are you overthinking it? The accessories can all take AC power or DC. Hook the Lionel to the track power accessory port. Hook the MTH buildings in parallel to a 12 volt 2 amp power supply or the Lionel accessory power supply.
George
George S posted:Gigabyte posted:Hi George, interesting, I forgot about this, I have a bunch of older Seasonic and Corsair PSU's from older builds, that convert AC input to DC output, what do you think?
Those can work too, but get more complicated to connect. Are you overthinking it? The accessories can all take AC power or DC. Hook the Lionel to the track power accessory port. Hook the MTH buildings in parallel to a 12 volt 2 amp power supply or the Lionel accessory power supply.
George
Hi George, thanks again! I'm going to use the Lionel Power Supply in parallel for the MTH Accessories, so, we'd have a (+) and (-) 14ga wire from the PS going in parallel to all the MTH devices, then like a ladder shape, branch off the (+) line from the PS to all the terminal (+) poles, and same to (-) with separate wires, like in the attached photo.
But quick question, could I go from the AC PS (+) wire to Acc1 (+) terminal, then from Acc1(+) terminal, connect another wire to Acc2 (+) terminal, then the same to Acc3(+) terminal, and the same wiring for the (-) terminal or would I need that ladder type connection, having two parallel wires from the PS [ (+) (-) ] branched off to each load? (I originally assumed I needed 3 sets of wires, each starting from the Lionel PSU to each device, but knowing what I know now...ugh. Thanks on that! Brings me back to 1981, my first circuit with a light bulb in science class.)
Searching around, I don't see that design type (parallel, but no branching/ladder design, so I'm not sure if that would work or cause problems...but even if the light was out on Acc2, the wire from Acc2 to Acc3 are still touching, so electrons should still be able to flow...but I do see the advantage of the ladder, since it provides more flexibility, one line for (+) and one for (-) that from anywhere you can attach to, rather than plugging it into a Terminal on an existing Accessory that's connected.) Actually, even it works, I prefer the ladder type design, maybe ok for a group of accessories in the same spot that you don't plan to move, but still inflexible....this is just a case of curiosity, as it looks like you can still complete the circuit.
For the PSU, I was just curious, as I have a bunch of them collecting dust, as it could make a fun project one day.
That sounds like a great idea, if I could convince my wife, my kids and I would enjoy taking a day trip to Poughkeepsie to see that.
Thanks again!
Gigabyte posted:George S posted:Gigabyte posted:Hi George, interesting, I forgot about this, I have a bunch of older Seasonic and Corsair PSU's from older builds, that convert AC input to DC output, what do you think?
Those can work too, but get more complicated to connect. Are you overthinking it? The accessories can all take AC power or DC. Hook the Lionel to the track power accessory port. Hook the MTH buildings in parallel to a 12 volt 2 amp power supply or the Lionel accessory power supply.
George
Hi George, thanks again! I'm going to use the Lionel Power Supply in parallel for the MTH Accessories, so, we'd have a (+) and (-) 14ga wire from the PS going in parallel to all the MTH devices, then like a ladder shape, branch off the (+) line from the PS to all the terminal (+) poles, and same to (-) with separate wires, like in the attached photo.
But quick question, could I go from the AC PS (+) wire to Acc1 (+) terminal, then from Acc1(+) terminal, connect another wire to Acc2 (+) terminal, then the same to Acc3(+) terminal, and the same wiring for the (-) terminal or would I need that ladder type connection, having two parallel wires from the PS [ (+) (-) ] branched off to each load? (I originally assumed I needed 3 sets of wires, each starting from the Lionel PSU to each device, but knowing what I know now...ugh. Thanks on that! Brings me back to 1981, my first circuit with a light bulb in science class.)
Both work and both are considered parallel wiring.
Series wiring, which you don't want to do, would be to wire AC PS (+) wire to Acc1 (+) terminal, then from Acc1(-) terminal, connect a wire to Acc2 (+) terminal, and continue until Acc3 (-) terminal to AC PS (-). In a series circuit, your voltage will vary across each accessory and the current will be the same.
George, thanks again for your help! I'm looking forward to setting up everything (or as much as I can, time permitting) this week.
Hi George,
Hate to bother you, but a quick question whenever you have a moment. I got the DCS commander setup and whenever I attached a rolling stock car to the MTH Christmas Train, eventually, it shutdowns the track (turning it off and on every few seconds) and I see arching from the MTH locomotive coupler to the coupled car's coupler (happens in the front and rear coupler) and on the last test, when this happened, I smell whats like ozone/electronics smell in the front cab of where it was coupled (front coupler, pulling car in reverse.) Do you think it's now damaged? Do you have any idea of what could be causing it? I was planning a demo video of the setup, but now I'm kinda freaked out.
Thanks!
Gigabyte posted:Hi George,
Hate to bother you, but a quick question whenever you have a moment. I got the DCS commander setup and whenever I attached a rolling stock car to the MTH Christmas Train, eventually, it shutdowns the track (turning it off and on every few seconds) and I see arching from the MTH locomotive coupler to the coupled car's coupler (happens in the front and rear coupler) and on the last test, when this happened, I smell whats like ozone/electronics smell in the front cab of where it was coupled (front coupler, pulling car in reverse.) Do you think it's now damaged? Do you have any idea of what could be causing it? I was planning a demo video of the setup, but now I'm kinda freaked out.
Thanks!
Gigabyte,
Oh no! That is very odd. Don't run anything right now.
Can you post pictures of the connections and the back side specs of the power supply?
George
I have never seen sparks from a coupler. That should not happen. Can you take a close-up pic of the coupler? Is this a new engine? I assume this is a remote controlled coupler? There could be some odd short in it.
Don't continue to run trains if the track is shutting down that often. We need to isolate and fix the short so it doesn't damage your trains.
George
Hi George,
Thanks for the reply. I've attached shots from both the MTH locomotive and the B Car (non-powered) from lionel (https://www.grzyboskitrains.co...ral-sharknose-b-unit) and the PS.
Yep, this is the MTH Christmas Train, got it last week and started using it last night, been having odd issues with it. Sometimes, it goes into conventional mode, with DCS unresponsive, and back to being responsive, then this happens when you connect that B car; not immediately, but after one or two oval track runs, randomly anywhere, on a curve, straight, or switch and everything stops and flickers, if you try to push more power, you hear a sizzling sound, and the last time it happened, I ran to it and move it sideways and moved it back down and saw that arch across the coupler, and it was making all track connected devices turn on/off, so I quickly pulled the locomotive off the track.
When this happened yesterday, I was really surprised, it made my LC PE move a few inches (the Polar Express was on, but not in motion, and the remote was off,) but it did make the PE move about 3-4 inches.
Sorry, and yes, it is a remote controlled coupler. If it needs repair, I work in NJ and found a few MTH repair shops in NJ. I was thinking if it does, I can also get the MTH NYC Central railing repaired there too as MTH doesn't offer paint to repair scratches on the yellow railing (plus, it needs the railing to join back to the cab, and either in shipping or someone mishandling it at the factory, both sides of the railing were popped off the cab.)
One last note, I tried three other LC locomotives coupled to that B car, with eletrocouplers, and none did that, just the MTH Christmas train.
Also, when you have a moment, this is the multi-meter I have, could you let me know how I could use it to test the track voltage? I'm a little ancy about using it again since the last time I made a mistake testing something where I blew the fuse on it, and it costs $29 dollars for a replacement fuse.
I'm no electrician and all this is confusing. Why not just use a AC transformer. Everything from LC/LC+/Legacy engines/MTH/or any host of standard engines could be ran. And what I have learned in my very short time at this is, my PE LC engine runs 100 times better on AC than it did on the DC wall pack. AND I can run my 1986 Wabash Fallen Flags set when I want to. As well as a DT&I switcher that I got when I was 5 back in 1971. And a side funny. A guy gave me a DT&I identical to the one I have from 1971 they wont run on DC.
carsntrains posted:I'm no electrician and all this is confusing. Why not just use a AC transformer. Everything from LC/LC+/Legacy engines/MTH/or any host of standard engines could be ran. And what I have learned in my very short time at this is, my PE LC engine runs 100 times better on AC than it did on the DC wall pack. AND I can run my 1986 Wabash Fallen Flags set when I want to. As well as a DT&I switcher that I got when I was 5 back in 1971. And a side funny. A guy gave me a DT&I identical to the one I have from 1971 they wont run on DC.
Hi CNT, it's kinda all I have at the moment, I spent my budget for the year buying two MTH and one Lionel LC+ locomotives; I may go that route in the future, but currently, I'm on the 72 Watt DC power. I'm wondering if I add 2 more DC bricks from other LC sets to my layout would that be ok, if more power was needed (more locomotives on the track and lit cars, not necessarily that all locomotives are running, but lets say 4 on the track, and only two running, but all 4 are still drawing power) I found out that If I have 2 LC's on the track (stationary) + 1 lit caboose and one MTH Locomotive, the MTH locomotive goes into conventional mode and eventually zooms on the track or sometimes goes into DCS mode but is erratic in response to DCS commands (which I think that means, if it flies, it has to be getting less than I think 9 volts or somewhere around that voltage according to the manual, but I forgot the exact voltage, but they do prevent the locomotive from moving, staying in neutral, if it gets the full 18V on startup.)
Just a quick update, figuring out what setting to use on the multi-meter without blowing a fuse, on my layout, I have a main O48 oval, with the brick attached to the terminal track getting on that oval at ~ 18.3VDC, now, the outer tracks connected via two switches (one is a reverse loop and one is a oval with a inner reverse loop) are getting 17.3 VDC
Hi George,
Just one more question, and that, and maybe it could be very helpful to other beginners searching here on google/bing, and that is, could I install a breaker to break the circuit if the current exceeds a certain threshold for a setup like mine? I've searched for that, but I only see that for DCC with A/C power, to which, I'm not there yet.
Thanks again and I really do appreciate your time and hope I can return the favor one day.
I need to spend some time going back over everything here to come up with some possible answers. Sorry, it got late.
How many engines are on the track when your Christmas train is sluggish? Also, what else is using track power? DCS Remote Commander, lighted cars, accessories?
It is probably not the volts, but the amps that is your problem. If the power is shutting down and restarting, the internal breaker in the power supply is throwing, meaning you have more than 4 amps being drawn. This can be from overloading or from a short.
I'll check in again later in the morning. BTW, most MTH shops will test run your trains for free, so that is a good option for your coupler. Call them first to check on a time when they can do it.
George
Gigabyte posted:Hi George,
Just one more question, and that, and maybe it could be very helpful to other beginners searching here on google/bing, and that is, could I install a breaker to break the circuit if the current exceeds a certain threshold for a setup like mine? I've searched for that, but I only see that for DCC with A/C power, to which, I'm not there yet.
Thanks again and I really do appreciate your time and hope I can return the favor one day.
There is a breaker in your brick. It auto-resets itself.
You could install an external breaker, but it will not be plug-and-play with your setup. You would need to get a DC M size (2.1 mm) power socket and plug from Radio Shack. Then, you would wire them together and on the hot side install the breaker. I will need to research a breaker option, since I think you are right that the PSX-AC breaker is for AC power. Also, these breakers can interfere with the DCS signal, so I need to check that too. For the money, you could probably buy an MTH Z1000 power brick with a built in breaker though that would give you more power.
Gigabyte posted:carsntrains posted:I'm no electrician and all this is confusing. Why not just use a AC transformer. Everything from LC/LC+/Legacy engines/MTH/or any host of standard engines could be ran. And what I have learned in my very short time at this is, my PE LC engine runs 100 times better on AC than it did on the DC wall pack. AND I can run my 1986 Wabash Fallen Flags set when I want to. As well as a DT&I switcher that I got when I was 5 back in 1971. And a side funny. A guy gave me a DT&I identical to the one I have from 1971 they wont run on DC.
Hi CNT, it's kinda all I have at the moment, I spent my budget for the year buying two MTH and one Lionel LC+ locomotives; I may go that route in the future, but currently, I'm on the 72 Watt DC power. I'm wondering if I add 2 more DC bricks from other LC sets to my layout would that be ok, if more power was needed (more locomotives on the track and lit cars, not necessarily that all locomotives are running, but lets say 4 on the track, and only two running, but all 4 are still drawing power) I found out that If I have 2 LC's on the track (stationary) + 1 lit caboose and one MTH Locomotive, the MTH locomotive goes into conventional mode and eventually zooms on the track or sometimes goes into DCS mode but is erratic in response to DCS commands (which I think that means, if it flies, it has to be getting less than I think 9 volts or somewhere around that voltage according to the manual, but I forgot the exact voltage, but they do prevent the locomotive from moving, staying in neutral, if it gets the full 18V on startup.)
Not sure how that is possible. You should have constant voltage from your brick.
Gigabyte posted:Just a quick update, figuring out what setting to use on the multi-meter without blowing a fuse, on my layout, I have a main O48 oval, with the brick attached to the terminal track getting on that oval at ~ 18.3VDC, now, the outer tracks connected via two switches (one is a reverse loop and one is a oval with a inner reverse loop) are getting 17.3 VDC
I could see a slight voltage drop like this if you only have one power lock-on and two loops with a lot of track.
Gigabyte posted:carsntrains posted:I'm no electrician and all this is confusing. Why not just use a AC transformer. Everything from LC/LC+/Legacy engines/MTH/or any host of standard engines could be ran. And what I have learned in my very short time at this is, my PE LC engine runs 100 times better on AC than it did on the DC wall pack. AND I can run my 1986 Wabash Fallen Flags set when I want to. As well as a DT&I switcher that I got when I was 5 back in 1971. And a side funny. A guy gave me a DT&I identical to the one I have from 1971 they wont run on DC.
Hi CNT, it's kinda all I have at the moment, I spent my budget for the year buying two MTH and one Lionel LC+ locomotives; I may go that route in the future, but currently, I'm on the 72 Watt DC power. I'm wondering if I add 2 more DC bricks from other LC sets to my layout would that be ok, if more power was needed (more locomotives on the track and lit cars, not necessarily that all locomotives are running, but lets say 4 on the track, and only two running, but all 4 are still drawing power) I found out that If I have 2 LC's on the track (stationary) + 1 lit caboose and one MTH Locomotive, the MTH locomotive goes into conventional mode and eventually zooms on the track or sometimes goes into DCS mode but is erratic in response to DCS commands (which I think that means, if it flies, it has to be getting less than I think 9 volts or somewhere around that voltage according to the manual, but I forgot the exact voltage, but they do prevent the locomotive from moving, staying in neutral, if it gets the full 18V on startup.)
You could run more Lionel bricks by setting up power districts. This means insulating the center rail between sections of track so that each power supply is powering its own part of the layout with the center rail insulated from the other power supplies. All power supplies should be plugged into the same power strip with polarity of the plugs the same.
Do you have more power supplies?
Also, check that one of the wheels on your Christmas engine is not off the track and that the rollers are on top of the center rail. Sometimes the engine looks like it is on the track right, but one axle is off, creating a short. It will move but stall if it is an intermittent short. You may need to get down to eye level with the track to check it.
George
Sorry for all the posts, I am trying to catch up and answer each question. Are your switches powered and are they on track power?
You may have too big of a power draw for the brick. I think the Christmas engine has two powered trucks, correct? You may only get a little over 60 watts out of that brick, even though it is rated for 72. It depends on how the internal overload circuit is set.
Hi George,
Thank you so much for all your replies and never be sorry, your insights into my challenges have helped me a great deal and I appreciate all your replies.
Sorry, but I have to run out for a few hours, my wife wants to take the kids to the Childrens Museum, but I'll be back around 5. I'm going to do a quick reply here with the time that I have:
1. Do you have more power supplies? Sure, I have 5 of them from various LC sets...also, what happens if you don't separate / isolate the bricks? I did that twice (plugged in two bricks to the track on terminals in different areas, nothing happened that I could tell that was destructive, and all LC's operated normally.)
Uggg...so sorry, have to run, I'll reply in full detail this evening, thanks again and enjoy your Saturday!
Gigabyte posted:Hi George,
Thank you so much for all your replies and never be sorry, your insights into my challenges have helped me a great deal and I appreciate all your replies.
Sorry, but I have to run out for a few hours, my wife wants to take the kids to the Childrens Museum, but I'll be back around 5. I'm going to do a quick reply here with the time that I have:
1. Do you have more power supplies? Sure, I have 5 of them from various LC sets...also, what happens if you don't separate / isolate the bricks? I did that twice (plugged in two bricks to the track on terminals in different areas, nothing happened that I could tell that was destructive, and all LC's operated normally.)
Uggg...so sorry, have to run, I'll reply in full detail this evening, thanks again and enjoy your Saturday!
Connecting multiple power supplies in parallel theoretically increases the current (amps) available on the track. It may work without isolated blocks. However, each brick has an internal breaker and connecting the power supplies this way does not regulate the power draw across the power supplies. So, when the track begins to draw more current than a power supply is rated for, the internal breaker may trip. So, you might not get more power than the lowest rated breaker. By isolating the center rails, each block of track gets a separate power source, reducing the likelihood that too much power will be drawn from any individual block. You could still have a problem if you get all the engines on one track block. The outside rails are still tied together, so you shouldn't get any sparks or shorts as a train passes from one block to the next.
I believe the correct connection is to run the DCS Remote Commander in passive mode with a red wire to the center rail of each isolated block.
I know of three ways to isolate center rails with Fastrack. First, you can by a Fastrack block section of track (6-12060) and remove the jumper wire for the center rail on the bottom of the track section. Second, you can remove the center pins for two adjoining sections of track. I would insert an an o gauge tubular track pin between the two sections to make sure they don't connect when the track section flexes on the carpet, but you could try it without or maybe cut some electrical tape across the rail sides (not the top). Third, you can use a dremel tool to cut the center rail through in the middle of a track section. This last one permanently modifies the track, so it may not be ideal.
Also, how does your MTH Christmas engine run if you take all the other engines off the track?
George
Hi George,
Thank you again for all your replies and insights, sorry about the delay in my response, I've been off and on writing since I got back at six trying to get everything into one reply. OK, here we go...
"There is a breaker in your brick. It auto-resets itself."
Thank goodness! I hope that should help in preventing any damage to the electronics that were connected.
"You could install an external breaker, but it will not be plug-and-play with your setup. You would need to get a DC M size (2.1 mm) power socket and plug from Radio Shack. Then, you would wire them together and on the hot side install the breaker. I will need to research a breaker option, since I think you are right that the PSX-AC breaker is for AC power. Also, these breakers can interfere with the DCS signal, so I need to check that too. For the money, you could probably buy an MTH Z1000 power brick with a built in breaker though that would give you more power."
Thanks, I like that idea, but I esp. like the idea you mentioned later about power isolated zones where I can re-use my DC bricks and the bricks have built-in breakers too on each zone. I think if I went this route, I would need 2 additional DCS receivers connected on each isolated section to control the locomotive in each isolated section? I'm not sure if DCS communicates via track voltage or if it transmits a wireless signal to the locomotive. Sorry, I remembered you did answer that question: "I believe the correct connection is to run the DCS Remote Commander in passive mode with a red wire to the center rail of each isolated block. " So, if I created three zones, I'd need three DCS command receivers connected to the track. At that point, I may consider buying the MTH Z1000 and just use one DCS commander (I mentioned earlier, as this is an edit, I preferred the zones, but the more I think about it, doing it that way is going to add a lot more complexity and possible points of issues.)
"Not sure how that is possible. You should have constant voltage from your brick."
I know, sorry, I didn't know how, when that happened, to check track voltage, but I did read that somewhere on MTH, but can't find where at the moment.
"I could see a slight voltage drop like this if you only have one power lock-on and two loops with a lot of track."
That's correct, I have two power lock-ons, but only one connected, I tried two, but didn't see any difference, esp. with the LC locomotives that seem to run fine (2 at time + other stuff) on the 18VDV/2A Brick. It seems like the MTH draws A LOT of current compared to the LC/LC+'s But you're right, when the last time I had the issue when I had to remove 1 of the 2 LC's on the track (stationary), I thought, let me add another brick so I can keep two LC's on the track (stationary) and still run the MTH Locomotive, so I connected both bricks and then when I saw the arch on the couplers after I think 2 rotations on the O48 track --which easily, now that I know, could be overloaded, as if it downgrades to the lowest brick, the lowest brick was 18VDC at 2Amps. My goal in the near future is to buy just two more left hand switches for sidings where I can switch the power off on those sidings to minimize power draw (in addition to the power zones.) I got that idea from Mike Reagan on youtube, at 16:43.
"Are your switches powered and are they on track power?"
I have 2 O36 Powered by track Switches, and 3 Manual Switches
"I think the Christmas engine has two powered trucks, correct?"
Sorry, but I'm not sure, it does have two separate trucks with pickup rollers, but I'm not sure if each truck requires/consumes power individually.
"You could run more Lionel bricks by setting up power districts. This means insulating the center rail between sections of track so that each power supply is powering its own part of the layout with the center rail insulated from the other power supplies. All power supplies should be plugged into the same power strip with polarity of the plugs the same."
Great idea, thanks! I read in a another reply from you on how to do that, thank you! I will definitely take that approach. But if the distance is too far from lets say three power lock-ons, could I use three separate power strips making sure I plug them in the same way (polarity wise,) if not, another option to solve that maybe that I can use 2 extension cords to run to the same power strip with matching insertion polarity. As.......
"Do you have more power supplies?"
Sure, I should have 4 or 5, from LionChief sets. That would put them to good use.
"Also, check that one of the wheels on your Christmas engine is not off the track and that the rollers are on top of the center rail. Sometimes the engine looks like it is on the track right, but one axle is off, creating a short. It will move but stall if it is an intermittent short. You may need to get down to eye level with the track to check it."
I think that maybe the problem, I didn't check, because I was a little freaked out when I saw that electrical arch, but I did have to unscrew to adjust one of the pickup rollers, as it was off center and the other roller (spring part) is bent to the left, which maybe the issue, but it's odd on the last time, as it occurred on a 30inch straight, BUT, MAYBE, it got off track on the curve leading into the 30in and eventually along the 30in straight it made contact and shorted. Great idea to check for.
"Connecting multiple power supplies in parallel theoretically increases the current (amps) available on the track..."
That makes absolute sense, it looks like my LC and LC+ don't draw a lot of current compared to the single MTH Locomotive (Christmas Train) as I can run 2 LC+'s simultaneously (Outer 048 and inner O36), while having 2 lit cabooses and 2 other LC locomotives (stationary) on the track at the same time (on the outside return loop,) plus still powering the MTH EOT truck via track power (as a place holder until I fix the Lionel LED bumper,) the MTH DCS Commander IR reciever and two 036 Remote Switches.
"How many engines are on the track when your Christmas train is sluggish? Also, what else is using track power? DCS Remote Commander, lighted cars, accessories?"
A. My current power draw from FastTrack at any given moment:
1. MTH DCS Commander IR reciever (tapped to track power via the PNP Lionel FastTrack
Pigtail on the return loop) I bought the Lionel wire to wire it to the track directly, but this was much more convenient.
2. MTH EOT truck
3. 2 Lionel Remote Powered O36 Switches
4. 2 MTH Cabooses (light inside + Red LED outside tail)
B. Testing with (in addition to A connected)
1. MTH Christmas Locomotive
2. Lionel PE (stationary)
3. Lionel LC+ Lackawanna (stationary)
What happens here is, the MTH Locomotive instead of doing nothing (no lights/sound), where you have to initiate the SU button, starts up right away, and sometimes it flies at max speed once the Super Capcitor is charged. If it doesn't fly at max speed, it simply stays on with sound and doesn't respond to the DCS.
C. Testing with (in addition to A connected)
1. MTH Christmas Locomotive
2. Lionel PE (stationary)
The MTH locomotive response to DCS commands, but at certain track points on the O48 loop, it doesn't, as the MTH DCS Commander is wired on the return loop and the MTH locomotive is on the O48 loop.
"It is probably not the volts, but the amps that is your problem. If the power is shutting down and restarting, the internal breaker in the power supply is throwing, meaning you have more than 4 amps being drawn. This can be from overloading or from a short. I'll check in again later in the morning. BTW, most MTH shops will test run your trains for free, so that is a good option for your coupler. Call them first to check on a time when they can do it."
Sure, I'm going to pull off all the LC's and the lighted cars and do a test run of the MTH Locomotive around the O48 for a 30 minutes in both directions and then add on another car (not the B car) and try that for 15 minutes and if all is well, I'll retry the B car. And if this happens again, I'll shutdown and look to see if I can see if part of the wheelset/axel is touching center / outerrail somehow.
A few questions (whenever you have the time, I know I've taken a lot of your time already and I really do appreciate it):
1. Assuming the Brick shutdowns down power on too much draw, would that protect everything that was connected from damage? My concern is that if cap's were charged, and the on/off cycle went on for about 8 seconds, could that damage the caps?
2. The electronic smell after that last issue with the MTH Christmas train, could that just be the "plasma" smell created by the arching, meaning, the short wasn't through the electronics, but through possibley the roller/axel touching center+outside rail directly, but also on the frame of the locomotive trasferring it to the B car that I saw? I guess what I'm asking here, is that there was no issue with a faulty pcb/electrical component causing a short, so any voltage/amperage coming through should have been capped at 18VDC and max ~4 [+/-] .2Amps which I think the electronics on the track (like a locomotive) should be capable of handling that before the Brick shutdown due to over draw? Also meaning, if the brick could give 10A, but the locomotives are not designed for that, I would expect serious damage, but I think 4A at 18VDC, connected loads should be theoretically something on the very high end pressure/flow that could be handled, and if we stay at 18VDC/max 4.2A, but we have a bunch of other things creating load in addition to the short area, that draw is still kinda shared on the wire, so in theory, on that short, it should be less than the max of 4.2A, but still high enough to create that arch over the short area, so 3.8A on the short, and 1.4A on the other devices connected? Meaning, it could've been a lot worse on the short if nothing was connected except that locomotive and B car, getting the full 18VDC + 4.2A (assuming the premise of 4A could be slightly higher, like 4.2A, before the circuit breaker is tripped)? But that last time, I had two power lock-ons connected to 1 72 and 1 32 watt brick, and because you mentioned that theoretically, it could increase the amps, I'm wondering if the lower end circuit breaker brick kicked in, and when that tripped, the 72 watt kicked in and that was also tripped, like a cycle between the two bricks?
Thanks again!!
Hi George,
Good Morning (late night for me working while testing the train...) The run on itself was fine 30 minutes R/F without anything connected. BUT....
Caught it! At least on the front cab coupling. Didn't check the rear, but I assume it's the same. Please see video below:
If the video is un-viewable, you can download it here: http://www.confluentmedia.com/20170122_022415.avi
Also, here's a snapshot from the video -- I checked my LC+'s and I did not get the arc when using the eletro-couplers:
Unlike last time, there was no electrical smell, but last time there was a short because the track was turning off/on, so now I'm a little concerned that the electronics in the front cab could be damaged to some degree.
Also to note, when running the train and it rolls over the Active LC Power Terminal, the train will not respond to DCS commands. After the power terminal, it goes 10 in straight, then O48 semi-circle, then 10in + 30in straight, only after it completes the semi-circle and enters the 10in straight, does it resume responding to DCS commands. Voltage looks good, so I'm not sure what the issue is other then something unqiue on and after the Terminal (prior to the terminal, there's a 10in straight, then preceding that, a remote O36 switch)
I don't think my idea about the multiple power blocks is going to work with the DCS Remote Commander. My suggestion to run a second wire back to the DCSRC will bridge the two blocks and they will no longer be isolated. I have only done this with a TIU, which has multiple channels. I don't know if adding additional DCSRC units will work off one remote and if they will be able to pass control of the engine from block to block.
When your MTH engine passes onto the section of track that is not responding to the remote, it has lost the DCS signal and is continuing on with the last command. To fix this, run two wires from the section that works to the middle of the section that doesn't, one wire for center rail and one wire for outer rail. You can use Lionel power wires. You can splice in longer wire if needed.
I bet you are reaching the limit of your power pack with three engines, two powered switches, lighted cars, and the MTH DCSRC. Even if the trains are stationary, they are drawing power. One option is to use the power blocks for sidings that only the Lionel engines use. You won't have DCS signal on those, so your MTH engine won't work on them, but your Lionel engines will. They won't draw power from the DCS track block when they are on that siding.
I think the smell is from the sparking, not blown caps. If you blow a cap, you will know. There will be a load crack noise, and then you will see lots of smoke. Been there.
It's probably ozone from the sparking.
George
For the sparking coupler, does it do it with multiple cars or just the Sharknose B? Does the Sharknose B have pickup rollers for anything?
Try disconnecting your power from the track. Then with the engine on the track use your Ohm meter to check for continuity between the center rail and any part of the coupler. If there is continuity, your engine may have a short and need service.
Somtimes sparking is due to dirty track or wheels. It shouldn't happen at the coupler, but cleaning the track wouldn't hurt.
George
You Sir, are a Genius, thank you!
Quick Update:
OK, I tested the the continuity on the B unit and it did provide an electrical path. I tested another caboose, no continuity. I have two B units and they do the same. I think they maybe an arc on the B unit due to it's design? I've attached two photos here, with and without tape. After applying tape where the center pickup would be, two things happen: 1. No continuity 2. DCS Works in the spot I mentioned before where it didn't. And you were absolutely correct, prior to the tape or removal of the B from the track, if I pushed horn on the working area, it would keep the horn on until it received the DCS signal to stop it.
However, excited this was resolved, it happened again 
I kept the non-continuity car attached and when I tested again, just after the O48 oval, it shorted. With a strong ozone smell from the front cab (nothing from the rear.) I shut it down, checked for derailing, etc, nothing obvious was detected. I think checked for continuity, and viola, I got continuity from the MTH front cab coupler to the center rail, but it was intermittent. I couldn't reproduce it consistently like I could with the B unit. It's running now for about 10 minutes and still cant reproduce it. I'll let it go for 5 more minutes then do the same in forward position.
I really do love this MTH locomotive, the Proto 3 sounds are excellent, the slow crawl performance is excellent, the ditch lighting and side wheel set lighting is so nice (I've only seen that on Legacy Locomotives, so I'm really impressed MTH did that detail to it's RK line), as well as the frame side LED chase pattern green / red lighting on the side and many other details and many other details that I've noticed and appreciate and like very much.
OK, back, great to know the caps didn't blow, sorry on your part that you found that out personally -- I only had that problem like that on two old ABIT motherboards for 15 years ago with known defective electrolytic caps that were sourced by ABIT, they didn't blow though, they just bulge and oozed.
I've been running forward and reverse and no issues, just the front cab smell remains. I think I may take it here to have it looked at, it's about an hour from where I live.
| The TrainDoctor | 22.53 Miles | The Train Doctor 2120 Hwy 35 Oakhurst, NJ 07755 United States |
http://mthtrains.com/authorize...rized_servic_value=1
According to this thread, unless it's a National Center, they will charge you. I'm going to yell at Lionel now on the B unit, at least I'll feel better if nothing else 
(Note: The odd part is, the LC+ elecrocouplers didn't have this problem with the B unit, only the MTH locomotive did, but still, the coupler was acting as a hot conductor)
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...-in-warranty-service
Now, I have another issue that I created another topic on for the LC+ Rio Grande and mentioned only buying locally, the only issue with that is, Train World which is my local shop doesn't do repairs for Lionel or MTH, but at least I can exchange/return items directly at no cost, so I think I may just go the route of paying a bit more + tax next time to buy these big ticket items in person.
Just a quick note, have you ever had service done before? I know it will vary per each service center and even each service visit to the same place, but I would hope they wouldn't nick/scratch the shell when working on it, like, eh, it's just a toy and treat it/man-handle it as such.
So far, I still can't reproduce the issue...I'm going to write back this afternoon with a follow-up and video.
George, your help and knowledge has helped me so much, thank you!
That smell you are smelling wouldn't be the smoke unit would it? You need to put smoke fluid in it. If not, I would stop using the engine until you have it serviced. The shop should not scratch your engine. I used a forum member, GGG. I sent him the engine and he sent it back. Turn around time was very quick. He is an MTH train expert.
I don't think that Sharknose truck plate is supposed to be an electrical pickup. It must be rubbing though. Maybe the paint has rubbed off allowing the center rail to short to the frame. You could try wrapping it in electrical tape if you can remove the plate, or maybe paint it.
George S posted:That smell you are smelling wouldn't be the smoke unit would it? You need to put smoke fluid in it. If not, I would stop using the engine until you have it serviced. The shop should not scratch your engine. I used a forum member, GGG. I sent him the engine and he sent it back. Turn around time was very quick. He is an MTH train expert.
Thanks, but it's not, when I first put it on the track, it smoked, and found the manual to figure out where the smoke control was, and after turning it counter clockwise, it didn't smoke as expected, however, the other new MTH engine (30-20295-1) I just tested now, continues to smoke regardless of fully left or fully right. That's awesome, I'll contact GGG tonight, thanks on that!
I'm sure GGG will be able to fix it for not too much, since you can control it with the DCSRC. But since it is making that smell, you don't want to risk it any further. Something could be ready to fail. GGG can hopefully fix it before it takes out the whole board.
Glad things are working better now though. It's a shame these engines and cars didn't work correctly the first time.
George
I used the remote commander on my son's track layout around his room. I bought a cheap terminal bus from a local electrical supply store. I ran the wire from the red peg to the terminal and then a wire to each of the 4 blocks on the track. I used fastrack and just used a Dremel tool and cut the center rail to isolate the sections. It sounds like you are losing the signal as the train goes around the track and running multiple blocks should fix this. I would also bet you are underpowered. If you isolate sections of your track, you can definitely run separate power to each section. The outside rails don't need to be isolated, just the center. Also, fastrack is notorious for losing power from section to section on the center rail. This can be fixed by slightly bending the tabs on the center rails so they make better contact. I also use just a little bit of conductive grease, like what you use for battery terminals, from a local auto parts store. This helps improve the signal and power from track section to track section.
Goshawk posted:I used the remote commander on my son's track layout around his room. I bought a cheap terminal bus from a local electrical supply store. I ran the wire from the red peg to the terminal and then a wire to each of the 4 blocks on the track. I used fastrack and just used a Dremel tool and cut the center rail to isolate the sections. It sounds like you are losing the signal as the train goes around the track and running multiple blocks should fix this. I would also bet you are underpowered. If you isolate sections of your track, you can definitely run separate power to each section. The outside rails don't need to be isolated, just the center. Also, fastrack is notorious for losing power from section to section on the center rail. This can be fixed by slightly bending the tabs on the center rails so they make better contact. I also use just a little bit of conductive grease, like what you use for battery terminals, from a local auto parts store. This helps improve the signal and power from track section to track section.
Did you run the DCSRC in passive mode or did you power the blocks with it? Did you use just one power supply?
George S posted:I'm sure GGG will be able to fix it for not too much, since you can control it with the DCSRC. But since it is making that smell, you don't want to risk it any further. Something could be ready to fail. GGG can hopefully fix it before it takes out the whole board.
Glad things are working better now though. It's a shame these engines and cars didn't work correctly the first time.
George
Thanks George, I really appreciate it! Quick question anytime you have a moment, should I try MTH first for service (on both trains, this one and the NYC RS-3 that can't turn the smoke off, and while it's there, fix the railing (I can try bending it again, but it's scratched in a few places, so if they are able to replace the entire railing, that would be great too.) I seriously went over budget on all three locomotives (and looking at my CC statements, I spent $2800 between Nov and Jan on stuff I forgot about, like the miller signs, buildings, rolling stock, a few Kato items for the N scale setup I have, etc...) I'm sure GGG would do a great job esp. if you're recommending him/her, but my concern is costs, as if costs are capped to just $30 to ship both locomotives to MTH, I assume everything will be covered at MTH as it's still in warranty, just two weeks old? But if GGG is a NASC, I think all parts should be covered by MTH so sending it to GGG should be fine too? I'll contact GGG now and will see what to do.
Wow, it's been a journey! George, thanks so much again for your time and patience, I GREATLY appreciate it. I'll follow-up in the near future once everything is shipped out/repairedreturned.
Gigabyte posted:George S posted:I'm sure GGG will be able to fix it for not too much, since you can control it with the DCSRC. But since it is making that smell, you don't want to risk it any further. Something could be ready to fail. GGG can hopefully fix it before it takes out the whole board.
Glad things are working better now though. It's a shame these engines and cars didn't work correctly the first time.
George
Thanks George, I really appreciate it! Quick question anytime you have a moment, should I try MTH first for service (on both trains, this one and the NYC RS-3 that can't turn the smoke off, and while it's there, fix the railing (I can try bending it again, but it's scratched in a few places, so if they are able to replace the entire railing, that would be great too.) I seriously went over budget on all three locomotives (and looking at my CC statements, I spent $2800 between Nov and Jan on stuff I forgot about, like the miller signs, buildings, rolling stock, a few Kato items for the N scale setup I have, etc...) I'm sure GGG would do a great job esp. if you're recommending him/her, but my concern is costs, as if costs are capped to just $30 to ship both locomotives to MTH, I assume everything will be covered at MTH as it's still in warranty, just two weeks old? But if GGG is a NASC, I think all parts should be covered by MTH so sending it to GGG should be fine too? I'll contact GGG now and will see what to do.
Wow, it's been a journey! George, thanks so much again for your time and patience, I GREATLY appreciate it. I'll follow-up in the near future once everything is shipped out/repairedreturned.
Email GGG and check. MTH might be free, but they could be very slow. Call them. They are not good with email.
It is easy to spend too much. It's the curse that comes with the joy.
Try harder. 
George
George S posted:Gigabyte posted:George S posted:I'm sure GGG will be able to fix it for not too much, since you can control it with the DCSRC. But since it is making that smell, you don't want to risk it any further. Something could be ready to fail. GGG can hopefully fix it before it takes out the whole board.
Glad things are working better now though. It's a shame these engines and cars didn't work correctly the first time.
George
Thanks George, I really appreciate it! Quick question anytime you have a moment, should I try MTH first for service (on both trains, this one and the NYC RS-3 that can't turn the smoke off, and while it's there, fix the railing (I can try bending it again, but it's scratched in a few places, so if they are able to replace the entire railing, that would be great too.) I seriously went over budget on all three locomotives (and looking at my CC statements, I spent $2800 between Nov and Jan on stuff I forgot about, like the miller signs, buildings, rolling stock, a few Kato items for the N scale setup I have, etc...) I'm sure GGG would do a great job esp. if you're recommending him/her, but my concern is costs, as if costs are capped to just $30 to ship both locomotives to MTH, I assume everything will be covered at MTH as it's still in warranty, just two weeks old? But if GGG is a NASC, I think all parts should be covered by MTH so sending it to GGG should be fine too? I'll contact GGG now and will see what to do.
Wow, it's been a journey! George, thanks so much again for your time and patience, I GREATLY appreciate it. I'll follow-up in the near future once everything is shipped out/repairedreturned.
Email GGG and check. MTH might be free, but they could be very slow. Call them. They are not good with email.
It is easy to spend too much. It's the curse that comes with the joy.
Try harder.
George
Thanks, I just did. Oh yes! My budget is ~$800 a year; my wish list at one dealer is over $5K
Gigabyte posted:George S posted:Gigabyte posted:George S posted:I'm sure GGG will be able to fix it for not too much, since you can control it with the DCSRC. But since it is making that smell, you don't want to risk it any further. Something could be ready to fail. GGG can hopefully fix it before it takes out the whole board.
Glad things are working better now though. It's a shame these engines and cars didn't work correctly the first time.
George
Thanks George, I really appreciate it! Quick question anytime you have a moment, should I try MTH first for service (on both trains, this one and the NYC RS-3 that can't turn the smoke off, and while it's there, fix the railing (I can try bending it again, but it's scratched in a few places, so if they are able to replace the entire railing, that would be great too.) I seriously went over budget on all three locomotives (and looking at my CC statements, I spent $2800 between Nov and Jan on stuff I forgot about, like the miller signs, buildings, rolling stock, a few Kato items for the N scale setup I have, etc...) I'm sure GGG would do a great job esp. if you're recommending him/her, but my concern is costs, as if costs are capped to just $30 to ship both locomotives to MTH, I assume everything will be covered at MTH as it's still in warranty, just two weeks old? But if GGG is a NASC, I think all parts should be covered by MTH so sending it to GGG should be fine too? I'll contact GGG now and will see what to do.
Wow, it's been a journey! George, thanks so much again for your time and patience, I GREATLY appreciate it. I'll follow-up in the near future once everything is shipped out/repairedreturned.
Email GGG and check. MTH might be free, but they could be very slow. Call them. They are not good with email.
It is easy to spend too much. It's the curse that comes with the joy.
Try harder.
George
Thanks, I just did. Oh yes! My budget is ~$800 a year; my wish list at one dealer is over $5K
Sounds like you need a side job.
George S posted:Gigabyte posted:George S posted:Gigabyte posted:George S posted:I'm sure GGG will be able to fix it for not too much, since you can control it with the DCSRC. But since it is making that smell, you don't want to risk it any further. Something could be ready to fail. GGG can hopefully fix it before it takes out the whole board.
Glad things are working better now though. It's a shame these engines and cars didn't work correctly the first time.
George
Thanks George, I really appreciate it! Quick question anytime you have a moment, should I try MTH first for service (on both trains, this one and the NYC RS-3 that can't turn the smoke off, and while it's there, fix the railing (I can try bending it again, but it's scratched in a few places, so if they are able to replace the entire railing, that would be great too.) I seriously went over budget on all three locomotives (and looking at my CC statements, I spent $2800 between Nov and Jan on stuff I forgot about, like the miller signs, buildings, rolling stock, a few Kato items for the N scale setup I have, etc...) I'm sure GGG would do a great job esp. if you're recommending him/her, but my concern is costs, as if costs are capped to just $30 to ship both locomotives to MTH, I assume everything will be covered at MTH as it's still in warranty, just two weeks old? But if GGG is a NASC, I think all parts should be covered by MTH so sending it to GGG should be fine too? I'll contact GGG now and will see what to do.
Wow, it's been a journey! George, thanks so much again for your time and patience, I GREATLY appreciate it. I'll follow-up in the near future once everything is shipped out/repairedreturned.
Email GGG and check. MTH might be free, but they could be very slow. Call them. They are not good with email.
It is easy to spend too much. It's the curse that comes with the joy.
Try harder.
George
Thanks, I just did. Oh yes! My budget is ~$800 a year; my wish list at one dealer is over $5K
Sounds like you need a side job.
I do! But I went over my budget rationalizing every purchase these past few months, with, oh, it'll just come out of next years budget.
One such rationalization was, I was going to buy a new AMD Ryzen Chip once released this year / AM4 MB and a Vega card once they are out to replace a I7 2600 / GTX680, but I figured I'll wait till next year now once all the issues are ironed out, and buy more trains
George S posted:Goshawk posted:I used the remote commander on my son's track layout around his room. I bought a cheap terminal bus from a local electrical supply store. I ran the wire from the red peg to the terminal and then a wire to each of the 4 blocks on the track. I used fastrack and just used a Dremel tool and cut the center rail to isolate the sections. It sounds like you are losing the signal as the train goes around the track and running multiple blocks should fix this. I would also bet you are underpowered. If you isolate sections of your track, you can definitely run separate power to each section. The outside rails don't need to be isolated, just the center. Also, fastrack is notorious for losing power from section to section on the center rail. This can be fixed by slightly bending the tabs on the center rails so they make better contact. I also use just a little bit of conductive grease, like what you use for battery terminals, from a local auto parts store. This helps improve the signal and power from track section to track section.
Did you run the DCSRC in passive mode or did you power the blocks with it? Did you use just one power supply?
I used it in passive mode with 2 Z500s.
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