Lionel 8800 and Marx 666 smoke, help needed.

The 2020 was always cataloged as a O-27 item. It runs well on O-27.

The 8800 - normal for this 1978 era steamer. Mine smokes quite well for long periods, not voluminous, but for a long time w/o refills and it works better with a good consist behind and when it gets warmed up.

The tire you need is the Lionel 242-206.

Thanks Rob!

The smoke fluid is the factor here.

 Use Lionel smoke fluid in both these engines if you're not already. It is a heavier viscosity fluid than MTH's version. Use only 6-8 drops in these engines. If working properly both these engines are OK smokers. Rob has good information.

 It is true as to the '46 version being more durable. I don't recall ever seeing one of these with a stripped worm gear (because it doesn't have one). The later versions have always be plagued with a stripped worm wheel because of ms-aligned motor.  

The 47-49 2020 shares nearly nothing with the vastly different 46 model.

The 46 has a double worm drive that does not rely on the side rods for power transmission except to turn the center 4 blind(flangeless) drivers. It is actually a very pleasant appearing loco as there is no "E-Unit" slot or lever in the boiler. The smoke bulb system does not smoke as well as the nichrome wire(like a toaster) heating system on post-46 models.

After '46, through '55, the turbines all(except for some of the carried over Electronic/ECU sets) had a single worm driving the rear drivers, and they rely on the side rods for power transmission to the forward 3 driver axles. When assembled and lubed correctly, they are very smooth too, and are certainly faster than the double worm drive models.

And yes, the double worm drive does not wear like the single worm setup where alignment and spacing is much more critical and the entire output of the motor goes though one worm wheel instead of being shared by two. On the double drive, you only need to be sure to time the front and rear drive axles to the longitudinal worm shaft when reassembling.

Thanks again Rob! That's the info I was looking for. I like for my trains to smoke and go fast, so it sounds like I'll be happy with any year after 46. I wondered about the  bulb deal anyway, so staying away from the 46 will mean I no longer have to worry about that, but not having the lever in the boiler would have been nice. LOL They all still use smoke pellets instead of fluid, correct?

Thanks go to Balshis and Chuck for their replies too. If anyone else has info to add, I'll be happy to read it! Thanks!

Pellets or fluid, I use both.

It may also be flooding but the wadding material that wicks smoke fluids to the heat may need fluffing or replacing.

 Not an extremely difficult task if you can disassemble and reassemble things fairly well.

The Marx smokers, I'm not exactly sure how the air flow happens.

But Lionel, there is often a piston for air, that should cause puffing out of the stack.

 Turn the loco over and check the travel, as well as operating the linkage and watching its stroke. Its pushed into action by the valve gear on each forward rod stroke.

There are air holes that should be clear too. The pellets can create a residue and plug them. The pellet residue in excess and fluid create a strange paste like goo that can foul them too. That said I still use both  its not that bad without many many years of residue. The pellets are my favorite. They last longer, and it doesn't dry up. If you melted a pellet and immediately put it on a shelf for a year. It smoked well right off the bat without adding one!

If you repack wadding, keep airflow in mind. Don't block holes.  

 I just bought another smoker for one of my Marx engines and bought another marx 666 engine. The new 666 smokes me out of the room, so I now know that the smokers in the other two 666s are in need of repair/replacement. I'll be replacing one, with the smoker I bought and I had thought about repairing the other, but the way they are made, it's almost impossible to take them apart.. I'm also fairly sure that my Lionel 8800 4-4-2 needs a new smoker too. It doesn't seem to be made to take apart. If anyone knows how or where I can find a replacement smoker for it, I'd be very grateful for the info. The 8800 has the tether for the SoS tender, which I sadly don't have. I read that there is a replacement smoker that will fit, but it's not the right one, since it doesn't have the SoS connection and has an LED wired on it for some reason, I'd like to find the correct smoker that's a direct replacement.

Adam

I have and have had a lot of 666's and 1666's. Some just smoke much better than others. Nature of the beasts. Also, some will smoke rather profusely just before the element burns out.

Steve

 You have to gently rock/ pry/ pull, to pop the top off the old school Lionels (metal pot type). Loosen any "crust" at the seam first.

  Many repair "kits" have a new lid if you bend the metal one bad or break a plastic lid

Sometimes you can just stick screw driver in the stack and pry....pop!

 There is often a weep hole on the bottom too. pushing a thin rod through it, up to the lid might help.

Marx ??? But once you're in, it should be similar.

Its usually easy to see if you need to fluff, or replace the wadding.

It cant smoke well if the fluid cant get to the wire or resistor

 I think the SOS tether was only for the chuff sounds. The chuff switch is in the loco I bet.

  The element or resistors are normally wired directly "to the track" & is usually fine if its working at all.

  An ohm reading is a good gauge as to "what's up".

That's how you decide how much heat you get, getting the resistance right(ohms)

  There are a few modern exceptions to going direct to the track for power though.

  A piston or "flapper" might move the air. No big deal that one will normally be track power at the heater.

Or

Many newer units use a dc fan to puff smoke, and some limit heater power.

The track ac is normally changed to dc on the board that forms the smoke chamber lid.

The one with an led, does it have a fan motor? circuit board?

How is it wired? Series?(in line) or to each heater leg?(parallel) 

I use MegaSteam fluid in my Marx smokers and in my Lionel 8703 (2-4-2 with similar guts to the 8800) with good to great results. Much better than with Lionel fluid. I thought the smoker in the 8703 was DOA until I put the Mega Steam in it.

With the 666, just keep running them until the fluid is gone and put in a half dozen drops of Mega Steam. They usually will start smoking nicely in just a couple of feet of travel when working properly. It may take some running to get the smoker "conditioned" and smoking well when switching to the new fluid. The Lionel needs a good load and a few laps before the smoke can be seen. 

I have new correct smoke units for your 8800. Also have good Marx smoke units.

 A word about Marx smoke units is there are several designs and some work better than others.

Contact info in profile if interested.

Chuck

www.Only3rail.com

Chuck, email sent, looking forward to hearing back!

Email sent. Thank you.