Lionel F40PH Legacy

They are on the water now. Expecting them to hit our docks in roughly two weeks.

I await mine, so I'm happy to hear they're getting close.

Spaceball one is on route carrying the latest batch I hear.

   These better have a good k5la !!!! I hope they will be here by Greenburg!

Speaking of the F-40 does anyone know how the cabbage unit will work as a push pull unit in lash ups?

Based on my predictions, much like last year with the road specific SD40, these engines will be here alive and well before the April York Meet. Patience is a virtue guys.

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

 

 

Speaking of the F-40 does anyone know how the cabbage unit will work as a push pull unit in lash ups?

I see no reason to think they wont work like any other legacy lashup. 

Program the cabbage as the lead unit so the lights and sounds work, then program the powered unit as the trailing unit in reverse. 

Put them on either end of the train and go.

The real question is whether the kinematic coupler mechanism has a strong enough spring to be shoved against without doing something odd to the train handling. The kinematic couplers dont seem to like to be pushed around curves. 

Any word on when the passenger cars will be in?

Can't wait!!!!!!

@Dave Olson Hello! It has now been around two weeks since you last posted about the F40PH arriving at your docks, since it has been around two weeks. Do you have any updates on the status of these locomotives? Thanks

AmtrakNickFilms posted:

@Dave Olson Hello! It has now been around two weeks since you last posted about the F40PH arriving at your docks, since it has been around two weeks. Do you have any updates on the status of these locomotives? Thanks

Hi Nick. These were actually just received in yesterday. A couple more days for sorting and paperwork, and they'll ship back out!

Ryan and I are planning on doing a video for these engines as there are a couple of cool features to them, including a lash-up feature where the CrewTalk will come from whichever unit (powered or cabbage) is leading the train. More details to come!

I guess that means my pre-order will be in soon, better warm up the credit card.

Thank you soooo much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so relieved to see that they made it across the ocean!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am looking forward to seeing the video of the cabbage unit and the loco together!

@Dave Olson Thank you so much for the responding to me! I am very excited for them to come and I also am very excited for the video that you are going to make.

Sweet action!! Can't wait to get them, Now we need in a future catalog matching 21" superliners!

with station sounds diners!

I agree

If you will be looking for a review of the engine #388 as soon as it comes out, check out my YouTube channel: AmtrakNickFilms

Thanks Dave Olsen and Lionel.  Nice to see these arriving!

Fred

It would be really cool if there was a head-end power mode where you could lock the diesel RPM in run 8. Not counting on it but that would be awesome.

@Dave Olson Hello! it has now been about a week since you mentioned the arrival of the Legacy F-40ph at your warehouse and I just wanted to know the current status of the engine and If it shipped back out to dealers. Also I remember you mentioned you and Ryan Kunkle are making a video about the Loco and the Cabbage Loco´s cool features, how is that coming along?

Thanks for your help!

I am also very curious to know when the video will be finished and when the f40 will be arriving at dealers. I hope the video is great!

Me too me too!!!!!

I upgraded my Legacy Cab 2 and base to the latest version so I can access all the AMAZING features on this engine. 

So, I would like a to see the vidieo , but I would much more like to see the model delivered here. When will we see these at our home layouts?

I grow impatient knowing they are here from China.

Fred

I agree with AUDI all the way!! 

Well Guys I have good news, I just messaged Train world and they told me that they were just shipped 1 Lionel F40ph, and the rest are due within this week or next week. I'm glad to see these awesome engines are FINALLY arriving.

Got mine today.  A beautiful locomotive!

Mike W. posted:

Got mine today.  A beautiful locomotive!

Cool! Can you show us a picture?

Pics...some quick ones at least:  

I also ordered #364 so I'm glad to see what it looks like!

Mike W., thanks for sharing!

Mike W. posted:

Pics...some quick ones at least:  

How are the sounds? Is the rumored k5la to be put in this loco true? Is a short video clip with the horn too much to ask?

Sadly I have no layout prepared right now due to space and moving stuff around.  I plan to have it back up soon though!  I wish Lionel or MTH would supply a true heritage consist for these.  Maybe Amfleet too.  

Oh ok, thanks for the pictures!

If anyone has any more pictures or videos of this new engine please feel free to share!

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

SO who has gotten their F40ph yet ! *I haven't yet sadly

Reading your previous postings, I get the feeling you're really anticipating this engine....

Joe

In case anyone didn't see yet, TrainWorld's Ken Bianco Jr. and Sr. were very generous to have Ryan Kunkle demonstrate these engines at their shop during his visit. So, say thanks to them and Ryan for getting this video shot today.

I hope all the fans here are happy!

Sounds great from here. Looks like a winner to me. I really wish they'd make 2 rail!

The horn sounds perfect. Can't wait to get mine!

Engineer-Joe posted:

Sounds great from here. Looks like a winner to me. I really wish they'd make 2 rail!

These locomotive have an option to convert them to Kadee couplers.

Did anyone else order their Legacy F40ph from Legacy Station? Because its been awhile since Lionel shipped them out from their Concord warehouse and mine hasn't arrived yet and I know some others have gotten theirs already........

I still have the Lionel F40PH Legacy on my bucket list. I did not do the built to order.  I would like to see this loco, some dealers always order extras. Below is a K-Line F40PH, I would guess about 15 years old.  I wonder if Lionel has the molds that made this locomotive. TMCC

I did watch the YT video from Train World, that was posted yesterday. Very helpful. 

Gary

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

Did anyone else order their Legacy F40ph from Legacy Station? Because its been awhile since Lionel shipped them out from their Concord warehouse and mine hasn't arrived yet and I know some others have gotten theirs already........

Full distribution takes time.  I haven't gotten called about mine either (not from LS). 

Boilermaker1 posted:

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

Did anyone else order their Legacy F40ph from Legacy Station? Because its been awhile since Lionel shipped them out from their Concord warehouse and mine hasn't arrived yet and I know some others have gotten theirs already........

Full distribution takes time.  I haven't gotten called about mine either (not from LS). 

Same here also not from LS

I ordered mine from trainworld and they have already received 1 and the rest are due this week (probably tomorrow)

AmtrakNickFilms posted:

I ordered mine from trainworld and they have already received 1 and the rest are due this week (probably tomorrow)

He sure is right ! and it was confirmed Saturday via Facebook live. 

I ordered mine from Charles Ro and I haven't seen a charge on my credit card yet.

Neal Jeter 

Lionlman posted:

I ordered mine from Charles Ro and I haven't seen a charge on my credit card yet.

Neal Jeter 

Oh ok thanks for sharing!

Wish they posted a video about the cabbage. Excited to get mine! Also, I hope they do an amtrak Veterans cabbage in the future. 

Maxrailroad posted:

Wish they posted a video about the cabbage. Excited to get mine! Also, I hope they do an amtrak Veterans cabbage in the future. 

I hope Lionel makes an Amtrak #90208 veterans cabbage!!

I agree, Zach, I find it ironic that the only Cabbage units that they made were in Phase 3, yet there are no cabbage in phase 3, except 406. They didn't even make 406! Regardless, I'm buying one. I can't resist phase 3

We must have the right "Train of Thought" Max, I just hope Lionel gets those Licensing agreements from NJT, Metra, MTA, and the Grand Canyon Railway to make more F40s!

I would love an NJT version. I have the 4 pack of MTH cars waiting for an ALP46 (still looking) to come in, and they are DYING to be ran. 

I picked up the extreme Hard to Find Atlas O MTA Comets at a show a little while ago.... and the cab car is wicked cool. I hope Lionel will make an MTA F40 so I will have something MTA official (Besides my Subway Set) to pull my passenger cars around the layout...

You can see  those cars in this video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK7HsUa-NK0&t=20s

About 20 miles from my train room, I can still catch a; F40PH.

Windsor, Ontario • Canada  /  VIA Rail to Toronto / This will be Lionel's next F40PH.

Gary

trainroomgary posted:

About 20 miles from my train room, I can still catch a; F40PH.

Windsor, Ontario • Canada  /  VIA Rail to Toronto / This will be Lionel's next F40PH.

Gary

Gary

  I have often thought about driving up to Windsor and taking VIA to Toronto for the weekend.  Have you ever left your car in Windsor to do this and is there safe parking?

Scott

VistaDomeScott posted:

trainroomgary posted:

About 20 miles from my train room, I can still catch a; F40PH.

Windsor, Ontario • Canada  /  VIA Rail to Toronto / This will be Lionel's next F40PH.

Gary

Gary

  I have often thought about driving up to Windsor and taking VIA to Toronto for the weekend.  Have you ever left your car in Windsor to do this and is there safe parking?

Scott

Hi Scott

There is a lot of free parking, and you are in Canada.  A crime free zone.  You will not need a passport, I have a Michigan Enhanced Driver's License  /  which is a passport to Canada.  They have the same thing in Ontario, to come to Michigan.  This was done to keep up tourism on both sides of the border. 

If you have children, with you / must have proof, they are your children.

Safe Travels: Gary

Gary.. thanks for info.  This summer I will try this out!

If anyone would be looking to see a very detailed review of the f40 as soon as it comes out, subscribe to my YouTube channel: AmtrakNickFilms 

trainroomgary posted:

About 20 miles from my train room, I can still catch a; F40PH.

Windsor, Ontario • Canada  /  VIA Rail to Toronto / This will be Lionel's next F40PH.

Gary

Is it true that Lionel is making the VIA F40 next?

Nothing confirmed, I hope Lionel will make a Grand Canyon f40, I asked during the livestream over the weekend and they said they could do it in the future.

Does anyone know what is the normal Amtrak engine speed run # is for the F40PH? I read somewhere it normally is set at Run #8 for travel   I have the newest  MTH Amtrak F40PH  and while I believe engine & horn sound is dead on perfect, especially the horn, at run#8 it sounds like the screaming motor will explode.   I just can't believe this engine could take more then a few minutes running at that high RPM level...

Joe 

Joe, have you never stood next to a screaming F40 at rest on a platform?  Same RPM's at rest and at 72mph!

Jon  

JC642 posted:

Does anyone know what is the normal Amtrak engine speed run # is for the F40PH? I read somewhere it normally is set at Run #8 for travel   I have the newest  MTH Amtrak F40PH  and while I believe engine & horn sound is dead on perfect, especially the horn, at run#8 it sounds like the screaming motor will explode.   I just can't believe this engine could take more then a few minutes running at that high RPM level...

Joe 

Apparently you are not familiar with the EMD 16 cylinder, turbocharged 645E3 engine series. Also, since the HEP (Head End Power) generator is mechanically connected to the main diesel, thus in order to provide 60hz, 480 volt three phase electrical power for the attached passenger cars, the main diesel engine MUST operate at a constant 908 RPM, regardless of the load or Engineer's throttle position, in order maintain that 60hz. 

MTH F40PH  /  2016 Volume 2  /  They have the VIA Rail F40PH

Need Passenger Cars for your Lionel Legacy F40PH, Check out MTH, 2016 Volume 2

Use the MTH Product Locator to find these F40PH & Passenger Cars 

http://mthtrains.com/product_locator

The old story which is a better ride; The Bowtie or The Oval?  I always go with the "Oval"

When it comes to Model Trains the same thing;  Orange or Purple.  I will go with the "Purple" - most of the time but I do also run the Orange.  This is a toss up, not Black & White. lol 

I just picked up a 2 pack of the Mth Amtrak phase 3 Bi levels, and they are absolutely amazing. 

Hot Water posted:

JC642 posted:

Does anyone know what is the normal Amtrak engine speed run # is for the F40PH? I read somewhere it normally is set at Run #8 for travel   I have the newest  MTH Amtrak F40PH  and while I believe engine & horn sound is dead on perfect, especially the horn, at run#8 it sounds like the screaming motor will explode.   I just can't believe this engine could take more then a few minutes running at that high RPM level...

Joe 

Apparently you are not familiar with the EMD 16 cylinder, turbocharged 645E3 engine series. Also, since the HEP (Head End Power) generator is mechanically connected to the main diesel, thus in order to provide 60hz, 480 volt three phase electrical power for the attached passenger cars, the main diesel engine MUST operate at a constant 908 RPM, regardless of the load or Engineer's throttle position, in order maintain that 60hz. 

LOL, I guess I'm not.  What I know is, I've heard F40PH's sitting at the station wailing away but didn't know they still keep those high RPM's  when running.   Almost like flooring a car still in neutral  Amazing the motors don't blow up.

joe 

JC642 posted:

Hot Water posted:

JC642 posted:

Does anyone know what is the normal Amtrak engine speed run # is for the F40PH? I read somewhere it normally is set at Run #8 for travel   I have the newest  MTH Amtrak F40PH  and while I believe engine & horn sound is dead on perfect, especially the horn, at run#8 it sounds like the screaming motor will explode.   I just can't believe this engine could take more then a few minutes running at that high RPM level...

Joe 

Apparently you are not familiar with the EMD 16 cylinder, turbocharged 645E3 engine series. Also, since the HEP (Head End Power) generator is mechanically connected to the main diesel, thus in order to provide 60hz, 480 volt three phase electrical power for the attached passenger cars, the main diesel engine MUST operate at a constant 908 RPM, regardless of the load or Engineer's throttle position, in order maintain that 60hz. 

LOL, I guess I'm not.  What I know is, I've heard F40PH's sitting at the station wailing away but didn't know they still keep those high RPM's  when running.

If they are providing Herad End Power, that they MUST run like that.

  Almost like flooring a car still in neutral

No. Not even close, as there is a load in that engine.

 Amazing the motors don't blow up.

First they are NOT "motors", they are engines. Second, that is what they are designed to do, and thus are classed as medium speed diesel engines. That speed of 900 RPM is really no big deal, as the engine in your automobile is capable of 5000 RPM.

joe 

Hot Water posted:

 

 Amazing the motors don't blow up.

First they are NOT "motors", they are engines. Second, that is what they are designed to do, and thus are classed as medium speed diesel engines. That speed of 900 RPM is really no big deal, as the engine in your automobile is capable of 5000 RPM.

joe 

 Hot Water, thanks for the information, appreciated.   I must say, you respond similar to Sister Agnella, my fifth grade teacher.  This nun was so cruel my hands can still feel the pain of her wooden pointer when I made a mistake..... 

joe

Hi all.

Here's our F40PH video. Hopefully this answers most questions you have. Let us know if you have any other questions and we'll do our best to answer them.

Thanks!

Thanks for the informative video Dave. It looks like you guys went an extra mile on these. The pair-up control is a really nice touch to these engines, and I love the horn sound used. Looking forward to seeing the next Lionel product video.

Thanks for producing this video, I hope to be receiving my F40 #364 in the coming days.

I'm excited to pick up mine!!

M J Breen posted:

 

I'm excited to pick up mine!!

 

That is  what I said when I heard the k5la for the first time!

Very nice video! I am so excited to get my Cabbage. I may even get another one if you guys make a Veterans. My question is can you run the Cabbage without another F40 in a lashup, with my Lionel Amtrak Dash 9 or maybe A MTH engine?

Do the Cabbage unit smoke? It's not listed in the features. 

Trainlover9943 posted:

Do the Cabbage unit smoke? It's not listed in the features. 

Why would you want a "Cabbage" to smoke?  The real ones don't have prime movers (diesel engines), thus there is NOTHING to "smoke".

Hot Water posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

Do the Cabbage unit smoke? It's not listed in the features. 

Why would you want a "Cabbage" to smoke?  The real ones don't have prime movers (diesel engines), thus there is NOTHING to "smoke".

Forgot about that. 

@Maxrailroad Yes, but you will not have the features of having the crew talk coming from the engine that is leading, if you are going to plan on running it in a lash up with you dash 9.

Nice video.

Thanks for posting!

I am also looking forward to receiving my engine and cabbage units that I ordered from Charles Ro soon!

Now that's one of the best sounding horns I've ever heard on any LEGACY diesel engine!  

Zach - I sure hope you don't have any problems with the engine.  With your enthusiasm I can only imagine how you would take that.  Best of luck of course.

William 1 posted:

Zach - I sure hope you don't have any problems with the engine.  With your enthusiasm I can only imagine how you would take that.  Best of luck of course.

Hey best of luck to you as well, I sure hope I don't have any problems with 364, if it ever gets to New Jersey..

AmtrakNickFilms posted:

Nothing confirmed, I hope Lionel will make a Grand Canyon f40, I asked during the livestream over the weekend and they said they could do it in the future.

I hope they also do this paintscheme of the Via Rail F40PH.

Still using the Incorrect 710 prime mover sounds

SPSF posted:

Still using the Incorrect 710 prime mover sounds

OK, how does a turbocharged EMD 16-645 with an exhaust silencer, sound different than a turbocharged 16-710 with an exhaust silencer?

Considering all the other paint schemes out there that can be done and in sufficient demand, Lionel should get some good use out of this new tooling.

Hot Water posted:

SPSF posted:

Still using the Incorrect 710 prime mover sounds

OK, how does a turbocharged EMD 16-645 with an exhaust silencer, sound different than a turbocharged 16-710 with an exhaust silencer?

The 710 sounds more refined / toned down.   The 645 sounds different.  Lionel is using a one size fits all chip - like they did with their SD40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0BI6y4xM4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ngARGn6Spk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FatYZDYeDDM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE5Z68fzAvA

SPSF posted:

Hot Water posted:

SPSF posted:

Still using the Incorrect 710 prime mover sounds

OK, how does a turbocharged EMD 16-645 with an exhaust silencer, sound different than a turbocharged 16-710 with an exhaust silencer?

The 710 sounds more refined / toned down. 

That is your opinion.

  The 645 sounds different. 

Not in my opinion, having dealt with EMD 567, 645, and 710 engines for more than 40 years. For what it's worth, the absolute LOUDEST diesel unit EMD ever produced was the DDA40X, with twin 16-645F3 engines and NO EXHAUST SILENCERS.

Lionel is using a one size fits all chip - like they did with their SD40

Just my opinion but, unless you have spent a lifetime working on and around EMD turbocharged engines, it really doesn't matter.

 

Not opinion. If you cannot distinguish between the two, you are tone deaf.  I have photographed just about ALL Santa Fe SD40, SD45, SD45-2, F45, FP45 and remember when the GP60 came out it had a Different sound.   It wasn't in my head, It is a different sound.  I saw these both at idle and accelerating.

Tell me that these sound the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavPKAsDlp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViB5ckrRdE

SPSF posted:

Not opinion. If you cannot distinguish between the two, you are tone deaf.  I have photographed just about ALL Santa Fe SD40, SD45, SD45-2, F45, FP45 and remember when the GP60 came out it had a Different sound.   It wasn't in my head, It is a different sound.  I saw these both at idle and accelerating.

Tell me that these sound the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavPKAsDlp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViB5ckrRdE

If I looked at it from the non- railroad side, the first thing I would demand is that the same equipment be used to record each engine in the exact same conditions, same exact location. That would also include facts like rpm and such, at idle.

 That might not seem like much. After handling audio equipment for years I have noticed quite some differences. Now, with mics built into phones and cameras, it might seem to level the field. I would not trust them to be the same.

 So comparing 3 idling engines recorded from overhead, to a more modern one at trackside, without even knowing what was used, seems ridiculous to a person like me.

SPSF posted:

Not opinion. If you cannot distinguish between the two, you are tone deaf.  I have photographed just about ALL Santa Fe SD40, SD45, SD45-2, F45, FP45 and remember when the GP60 came out it had a Different sound.   It wasn't in my head, It is a different sound.  I saw these both at idle and accelerating.

Tell me that these sound the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavPKAsDlp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViB5ckrRdE

You are trying to compare sounds of a 40/45 series units, without exhaust silencers, to Dash-2 series units WITH exhaust silencers, to a 710 with a different/larger exhaust silencer. Not to mention the fact that earlier EMD units equipped with 645 engines had much higher idle speeds, than the later Dash-2 series units, and then finally the 710 engines with the VERY low idle speed. 

When comparing the full load exhaust sound of any Dash-2 series unit (with exhaust silencer) to the full load exhaust sound of the 710 equipped units (again with exhaust silencer), they all sound pretty much the same.

On the other hand, I may very well be "tone deaf", after more than 40 years of diesel and steam locomotive exhausts! That said, comparing them at idle is a waste of time, in my opinion, as there are way too many designs differences.

Hot Water posted:

SPSF posted:

Not opinion. If you cannot distinguish between the two, you are tone deaf.  I have photographed just about ALL Santa Fe SD40, SD45, SD45-2, F45, FP45 and remember when the GP60 came out it had a Different sound.   It wasn't in my head, It is a different sound.  I saw these both at idle and accelerating.

Tell me that these sound the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavPKAsDlp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViB5ckrRdE

You are trying to compare sounds of a 40/45 series units, without exhaust silencers, to Dash-2 series units WITH exhaust silencers, to a 710 with a different/larger exhaust silencer. Not to mention the fact that earlier EMD units equipped with 645 engines had much higher idle speeds, than the later Dash-2 series units, and then finally the 710 engines with the VERY low idle speed. 

When comparing the full load exhaust sound of any Dash-2 series unit (with exhaust silencer) to the full load exhaust sound of the 710 equipped units (again with exhaust silencer), they all sound pretty much the same.

On the other hand, I may very well be "tone deaf", after more than 40 years of diesel and steam locomotive exhausts! That said, comparing them at idle is a waste of time, in my opinion, as there are way too many designs differences.

I think if this is the biggest issue with these, then we can safely say lionel did a GREAT job on them

BigJohn&theWork posted:

Hot Water posted:

SPSF posted:

Not opinion. If you cannot distinguish between the two, you are tone deaf.  I have photographed just about ALL Santa Fe SD40, SD45, SD45-2, F45, FP45 and remember when the GP60 came out it had a Different sound.   It wasn't in my head, It is a different sound.  I saw these both at idle and accelerating.

Tell me that these sound the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavPKAsDlp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViB5ckrRdE

You are trying to compare sounds of a 40/45 series units, without exhaust silencers, to Dash-2 series units WITH exhaust silencers, to a 710 with a different/larger exhaust silencer. Not to mention the fact that earlier EMD units equipped with 645 engines had much higher idle speeds, than the later Dash-2 series units, and then finally the 710 engines with the VERY low idle speed. 

When comparing the full load exhaust sound of any Dash-2 series unit (with exhaust silencer) to the full load exhaust sound of the 710 equipped units (again with exhaust silencer), they all sound pretty much the same.

On the other hand, I may very well be "tone deaf", after more than 40 years of diesel and steam locomotive exhausts! That said, comparing them at idle is a waste of time, in my opinion, as there are way too many designs differences.

I think if this is the biggest issue with these, then we can safely say lionel did a GREAT job on them

MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!

Maybe Lionel has to put future F40PH, back on the drawing board.

Start working on Siemen’s, New SC-44 Charger - Amtrak and several other road names and California Department of Transportation.

Who will bring us the New Siemens, SC-44 Charger Locomotive, built at Sacramento, California, Top speed of 125 Miles Per Hour and 4400 HP  /  Lionel • MTH  or Atlas?

Gary

Or maybe even the Amtrak P42DC, as well as other paint schemes.   This would be a total best seller.  And while we're at it, maybe even some 21" Superliner cars to go with them.

Peter Araujo posted:

Or maybe even the Amtrak P42DC, as well as other paint schemes.   This would be a total best seller.  And while we're at it, maybe even some 21" Superliner cars to go with them.

Hi Peter: If you can make MTH work on your layout, they have several paint schemes. Some are in stock.

Gary

If Lionel would do it, they would give them the Kinematic pilots.

Peter Araujo posted:

If Lionel would do it, they would give them the Kinematic pilots.

Hi Peter: You have Mike Wolf in your OGR Forum Avatar - Hit him up with an e-mail or a phone call.  Just ask him for kinematic pilots on MTH, •  MTH also has the 21' Super-liners.

trainroomgary posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

If Lionel would do it, they would give them the Kinematic pilots.

Hi Peter: You have Mike Wolf in your OGR Forum Avatar - Hit him up with an e-mail or a phone call.  Just ask him for kinematic pilots on MTH, •  MTH also has the 21' Super-liners.

 

This doesn't mean I only collect MTH, I also collect Lionel, Atlas, and a little bit of Weaver Models.  I don't think MTH will want to do something like that to the pilots.  Also their Superliner cars are actually 18" in length, not 21".  That would be cool though, but it's best not to bother so they can stay in business.

Or watch this demonstration video directly from Lionel:   LINK

Lionel did an excellent job with this demonstration video.

I like how they showed the programing switch for the cabbage unit.

and they look great on the layout.

Gary

Dave Olson... you are the man!!!!! Thank you for pushing the technology forward.... and for correct horn times!!!!

Tones!

The GN Man posted:

If Lionel ever brings back the (K-Line) Bombardier commuter cars, I hope they add sound and the "PAIR" feature to the cab control cars. 

I am glad you posted this. I have wondered how I could respond  to Lionel's use of the word "pair" in the 2017 Signature catalog.

I do not like the use of the word " pair" as Lionel has used it in their most recent catalog.  This use is reserved for wine and food. Please ,Lionel, do not continue to use the word "pair" in this context anymore for the sake of the King's English.

Fred

Atlas's first release Comet and Horizon cars had a similar function for the upgraded cab cars.  By setting the dipswitch the correct way on the AEM7 or ALP44 locomotive and the corresponding cab car, the strobes and the horn would work on which ever end of the train was leading.  Yes, old technology but not bad for 1999 when they were first released.  Yes, I know the horn sounded terrible on those, but the tooling is still excellent nearly 20 years later.

This is the Lionel Amtrak F40PH - Horn samples.....

Gary

Can someone post a video to get to the command control switches to program? The magnets seem very sticky.

It's not the magnets, the paint on the hatch covers is too thick and binds.  The only fix is to sand the sides a bit and then touch-up the black so they come off properly.  BTW, lift from the rear, the front is the hinges, the rear is where the magnets are.

trainroomgary posted:

 

Who will bring us the New Siemens, SC-44 Charger Locomotive, built at Sacramento, California, Top speed of 125 Miles Per Hour and 4400 HP  /  Lionel • MTH  or Atlas?

Gary

Gary, even if they bring it, we have aesthetic standards to adhere to on purchases!  

That is one ugly locomotive!

BobbyD posted:

trainroomgary posted:

 

Who will bring us the New Siemens, SC-44 Charger Locomotive, built at Sacramento, California, Top speed of 125 Miles Per Hour and 4400 HP  /  Lionel • MTH  or Atlas?

Gary

Gary, even if they bring it, we have aesthetic standards to adhere to on purchases!  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That is one ugly locomotive!

Hi: Bob & John

Here is the deal, An Amtrak Siemens, came close to my train room last week, took my two grandson down to see this locomotive.  Guess What?  My two grandson's want to see grandpa add this locomotive to the layout.

This Siemens is going to replace the Amtrak Genesis - Who ever builds this first, Lionel or MTH. I will add this loco to my roaster. We always talk about ways to grow the hobby on the OGR Forum.  Lionel and MTH should be building locos that kids can see go by there homes and ride on.  Just like we did as kids, with American Flyer and Lionel.

Gary:  Still a big kid......

I'm in no hurry.

Does anyone have the CSX F40PH's?

Peter Araujo posted:

Does anyone have the CSX F40PH's?

I received an email today from my dealer that mine has arrived at the store.  Will likely be picking it up tomorrow.....after checking it for defects.

Mine is in, you can bet when I pick it up I'm going to look it over VERY carefully!

trainroomgary posted:

BobbyD posted:

trainroomgary posted:

 

Who will bring us the New Siemens, SC-44 Charger Locomotive, built at Sacramento, California, Top speed of 125 Miles Per Hour and 4400 HP  /  Lionel • MTH  or Atlas?

Gary

Gary, even if they bring it, we have aesthetic standards to adhere to on purchases!  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That is one ugly locomotive!

Hi: Bob & John

Here is the deal, An Amtrak Siemens, came close to my train room last week, took my two grandson down to see this locomotive.  Guess What?  My two grandson's want to see grandpa add this locomotive to the layout.

This Siemens is going to replace the Amtrak Genesis - Who ever builds this first, Lionel or MTH. I will add this loco to my roaster. We always talk about ways to grow the hobby on the OGR Forum.  Lionel and MTH should be building locos that kids can see go by there homes and ride on.  Just like we did as kids, with American Flyer and Lionel.

Gary:  Still a big kid......

Gary,

The SC-44s are not replacing the Genesis, at least not yet. The F59PHIs however, are gone. A handful of the P40s will be retired, but only a few.

As for this topic, I picked my Cabbage unit up a little while ago, and I have to say it is by far one of my favorite engines in my collection. It runs great with my Lionel Amtrak Dash 9, and the horn is incredible! My CSX one is at Nicholas Smith, so I think I will get it after York, if I am not bankrupt.

What are the defects you are worried about?

Maxrailroad posted:

trainroomgary posted:

BobbyD poste

 

Gary,

The SC-44s are not replacing the Genesis, at least not yet. The F59PHIs however, are gone. A handful of the P40s will be retired, but only a few.

As for this topic, I picked my Cabbage unit up a little while ago, and I have to say it is by far one of my favorite engines in my collection. It runs great with my Lionel Amtrak Dash 9, and the horn is incredible! My CSX one is at Nicholas Smith, so I think I will get it after York, if I am not bankrupt.

Max, glad to see I'm not the only one on the border of chapter 11.......Lol

I just watched all the posted videos in this thread on the Lionel FP40.  Is it me, or do the engine sounds sound exactly like the SD60e's?  Are they supposed to?  The horn is different but the engine is identical.

TrainGuyMcGee posted:

I just watched all the posted videos in this thread on the Lionel FP40.  Is it me, or do the engine sounds sound exactly like the SD60e's?  Are they supposed to?  The horn is different but the engine is identical.

Not a lot of differences in full load exhaust sounds between various EMD turbocharged diesel prime movers. All domestic EMD units since the Dash-2 series came out in 1972, have exhaust silencers on the turbochargers, thus they all pretty much sound the same under heavy load.

My 2 FP40s arrived today from Charles Ro and everything on them is perfect. So let's not assume they are all defective. I think Lionel did a great job on them.

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

Number board not lit, hatch cover so tight that it's almost impossible to get it off, and apparently the conductor took a walk, I hear him rattling around in the engine, but he's not in view!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

You've got to be kidding me! That sucks. 

I think I'm being singled out for abuse!

Trainlover9943 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

You've got to be kidding me! That sucks. 

No fun at all!

I am surprised they arrive in as good of condition as they do considering the rough handling that happens during shipping. I cringe every time something is shipped to me or if I ship something. 

I'm not keen on shipping it back, but if that's the only way to get it fixed...  I don't want to open it up and then have Lionel deny warranty coverage.  I'm not a "factory trained" tech for Lionel, primarily because they don't hold schools any more, so I can't really open them up and maintain any warranty coverage. 

I suspect the number board isue is not super complex, and of course gluing the conductor back in shouldn't be a challenge.

OTOH Mark, if they can't ship them and get them to the destination in good condition, they either need to improve the packaging or get into another business!  I used to ship 75 pound video generators all around the world 25 years ago, and we never had a shipping damage issue.  Packing something that weighs 5-6 pounds so it won't get damaged in shipment should be fairly easy.

Hi John - When it comes to a F40PH / I am old school.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zelcdJP8gQQ&t=3s - Video from my YT - Channel

In my old age, I remember this story, like it was yesterday.  At the time, I owned a teen driving school and I drove the company car, to a K-Line Super Store in Indianapolis, Indiana.  I did remove the roof sign.  They are held on with three strong magnets.

This loco is a K-Line • Lionel Cab #1 / TMCC and can also be controlled with my MTH-DCS. Still runs great.

Gary:  Old school, F40PH - for about 15 years........

I was all set to bite the bullet and open it up to fix the number board light and glue the conductor in, but then I turned it over and looked a bit closer...

Say what?  Only one of the wheels is grooved for a traction tire, the other is a plain wheel!

The other truck has the correct wheels, they just forgot to install the traction tires!

That explains why it was wobbling a bit on the track...

This has to have been a Monday morning build!

Mark Mcclung posted:

I am surprised they arrive in as good of condition as they do considering the rough handling that happens during shipping. I cringe every time something is shipped to me or if I ship something. 

 This ain't shipping damage!

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

You've got to be kidding me! That sucks. 

No fun at all!

Apparently, Quality Control is an issue across the industry.. One of my new MTH N&W C30-7s showed up missing a number board, at least it runs properly.. I will fabricate my own number board.. One more project..

I could have fixed the number board, fixing the wrong wheel is above and beyond.  

I've made a few number boards, once you work out a technique, they're not too difficult.  I print them white on black in high density on my laser printer in the correct size.  I use clear parts cement to stick them to clear plastic, instant number board.

Apparently, Quality Control is an issue across the industry.. One of my new MTH N&W C30-7s showed up missing a number board, at least it runs properly.. I will fabricate my own number board.. One more project..

I would disagree with this statement.  We only hear about the bad experiences on here and this forum doesn't speak for the mass majority of the market.  Yes there are quality control issues and it is I feel for those who have had bad experiences recently, but that is not industry wide.  Without getting into specific manufacturers, there are several you rarely if ever hear about quality control concerns in the O scale market. 

Well all 3 of my f40ph'S were perfect right out of the box! I was very happy about that... sometimes the new trains arrive perfect. Sometimes they don't. My legacy y-3 steamer had to go back to Lionel because it didn't respond to legacy, and back to Harry Heike because the weathering was peeling off the drivers. In my experience It's hit or miss and that's why we have Warrantees. 

can you be specific in list format what is exactly wrong? Going to check mine again this weekend. Like

1.

2.

etc

I see number board etc.

I think my conductor may be floating too now that I think about it.

Gunrunnerjohn

seems like you unit was built on April First! With the dissolving coupler, rusty cut bar, the number board, and those wheels, I think that Mike Reagan would have spit on that engine! I would send it back, and demand two free ones!

My powered and cabbage units arrived today and look terrific - nothing broken or missing and all couplers look fine. The powered unit runs and sounds great.

Unfortunately, the cabbage unit has a dead short when powered up.

I called Charles Ro this morning and was told that I will be sent a return FedEx shipping document and I was promised that the engine will either be repaired or replaced. Update: already received return shipping documents this afternoon and the cabbage is on it's way back!

It's nice to deal with a reputable dealer!

How bout some csx love.  

Nice! Any hatch problem? Conductor glued in?

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

GG1 4877 posted:

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

Good one Jonathan, except in passenger service the Conductor is BACK IN THE PASSENGER CARS. In commuter service, there is nobody else in the locomotive, or cab car, with the Engineer. In Amtrak service, there MAY be an "assistant Engineer", but that is only on long distant runs. Thus, if the "Conductor is loose" in the cab of these units, then simply take him/her out and place him/her back in the passenger cars.

Hot Water posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

Good one Jonathan, except in passenger service the Conductor is BACK IN THE PASSENGER CARS. In commuter service, there is nobody else in the locomotive, or cab car, with the Engineer. In Amtrak service, there MAY be an "assistant Engineer", but that is only on long distant runs. Thus, if the "Conductor is loose" in the cab of these units, then simply take him/her out and place him/her back in the passenger cars.

True.  Begs the question then why there are two crew members in the cab.  I have a friend who is an engineer on the "Southwest Chief" from La Junta to Kingman.  I'll ask him what the cab crew is typically.  I like the idea of having the conductor in a passenger car.  For the long distance trains, there is also the train chief to consider too.  I find them interesting to chat with when they aren't going crazy managing "hotel" staff.  Usually after the passengers head to bed is the best time.

So, who's the guy that's rattling around in the shell of the F40PH?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

So, who's the guy that's rattling around in the shell of the F40PH?

Can't be the Engineer, as he/she has to be seated behind the control stand and operate the train. Thus, it must be some unauthorized person that is "rattling around".

John Quogue RR posted:

Nice! Any hatch problem? Conductor glued in?

No issue I got an Amtrak phase 3.   And both csx units.    No issues I can find at least in reference to what I've seen listed.   No loose crew or unlighted number boards.   No missing boxes under the chassis.   Great horn on these that's for sure.   The csx units are very attractive in person.   Only gripe would be the hatch I'm honestly afraid to even try to remove it. Deafinetely poorly thought out. 

The hatch is the easiest thing to fix, I wouldn't have had any complaint if that's all that was wrong with the two units.

I got the "207" last week.  I decided to get the "200".  It arrived yesterday without anything loose or missing.  The hatch was not that hard to remove.  

Neal Jeter

Hot Water posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

Good one Jonathan, except in passenger service the Conductor is BACK IN THE PASSENGER CARS. In commuter service, there is nobody else in the locomotive, or cab car, with the Engineer. In Amtrak service, there MAY be an "assistant Engineer", but that is only on long distant runs. Thus, if the "Conductor is loose" in the cab of these units, then simply take him/her out and place him/her back in the passenger cars.

New rule.  According to the Amtrak folks on my eastbound Empire Builder last month, there are now always two people in the cab on long distance trains.

I just got my two power Phase 3 Amtrak engines.  One runs good, but the hatch is so hard to lift off, and the other the hatch is not so hard to get off, but it shorts out the track.  I cannot get it to run and it is scheduled to go back to Lionel for repair or replacement.  First time I have ever had an issue with a Lionel engine out of the box.

Goodness, are all the folks that got #364 having this kind of issue?

I have 364. Put it on track last night and now it is shorting out. Roof hatch was nearly impossible to open unless pried off. I immediately boxed it up and it is going straight to Lionel to get fixed. The roof was a disaster!

The hatch is an illustration of how a minor item can really create a problem for a manufacturer.  One little flaw really creates a firestorm.

I P/U my Amtrak #207 from Great Lakes Hobby. Out of the box I did not have any issues that have been posted above. The hatch came off if I wiggled it from side to side using the fans for leverage. On the track it ran well. Both couplers opened. No signs of pitting on the couplers.  Both number boards illuminated. I like the sound of the horn and bell.  As far as smoke I would not know because I turn off the smoke units on all my diesels. Just my preference. But I smoke my steamers to the hilt. Still using the generic crew talk. I would like to see Lionel go back to calling out the road number of the engine. I will give her a good work out at the Blue Water Train Show in Port Huron, MI  on April 23, 2017.

Victor

SO GRJ and others, Are you saying Unit #364 is "down the hatch?" 

WEll I ordered Phase II and have not herd of any issues with that loco. I am sticking with my K-line Phase II though....

If the hatch was the only problem, it would have been posted with a glowing review and the hatch mentioned as an afterthought.  I fixed the hatch on my first one in a couple of minutes as good as new.  A little fine sandpaper flat on the bench and a quick touch-up of the sides and the hatch didn't stick anymore.

As I mentioned on the other F40PH tread, the powered unit lacks weight. The pilot and truck castings are very thin. I can see lots of broken truck side frames and shattered pilots in the future due to the thin castings. Definitely these components will not take a fall to the ground as what sometimes happens. The lack in heft is a disappointment in what is otherwise a well done unit with some interesting features.

The constant cost cutting and "cheapening" seems to be a persistent constant of frustration with Lionel.  JLC always looks for ways to cut costs and that corporate philosophy is still part of Lionel to this day. Lionel saved 1/2 pound in material costs (whatever that 1/2 pound in materials cost) in the design chosen for the F40PH. It is difficult to argue with the practice since Lionel is still here when so many others have perished. Having said that, I still want my units to have the heft that is not present on the F40PH. 

If I find the weight to be too obnoxious, I'll correct it.   Here's my way of adding an extra pound to my HHP-8, did wonders for the pulling power.

Thinner side frames on the trucks and a thinner pilot are so much more prototypical.  I'd see that as a positive feature for scale enthusiasts.  That is the major complaint I've had about most cast locomotive trucks.  Athearn had this issue in HO until they finally started doing the side frames in plastic.  More flexible, less likely to break and more scale.  Many two railers will mill off the inside edge of truck side frames to make them look better. 

For added weight, the old practice was to add aftermarket weights.  Once the warranty has expired, not a hard thing to do.  I agree that a heavier locomotive provides better traction.  Based on the photos' I've seen, these look nice enough to 2 rail. 

I wonder is brass was used for the castings. Brass makes for much stronger and thinner parts than Zamak alloys. I am not going to scratch to find out. 

Picked these up yesterday.  I had no problems with the hatch. They run great.

Well add one of my three to the list on going back to Lionel.   My amtrak 388 phase 3 unit died in spectacular fashion today.   i was attempting to lash it up with one of my csx units to try out the pair feature and i always test the speeds of both locos before coupling them.  I know its not necessary just a habit i guess.  i noticed when doing the test before coupling them together that the amtrak units slow speed operation was very choppy.  It just didn't seem very happy at all.  All the of the f40 i received all seem to be in desperate need of lubrication they just don't run very smoothly.  I had ran the csx unit a bit the other night so i thought maybe the amtrak unit needed a bit of breaking in.  So i set it to medium speed and just let her roll. on the second go around of small loop of track she proceeded to burst in a shower of sparks and which tripped the breaker on my power master.  i thought the unit had just derailed it had just passed through a switch.  so while im attempting to reset the breaker i begin to smell a very strange smell and look over and its lost in a cloud of white smoke coming out the smoke exhaust and under front an rear of the frame by the trucks.  I was pretty surprised to say the least.  Ive seen some units die but never quite in this spectacular fashion.  luckily my office is right across from the restroom so i could turn on the exhaust fan to remove the smoke.  after letting the room air out i started some investigating. No derailment appears to be some kind of electrical failure. The shell of the loco was very warm to the touch for at least 5 minutes after this happened. It probably wouldn't have burned my hand but definitely warmer than i wanted to be handling.  I gave it a minute to cool down and I removed the shell just to see what could have gone wrong.  To my surprise which I'm no gunrunner john or any of our other technicians around here, but nothing appeared burned or charred.  No obvious failures at least that my untrained eye could find.  The smell of burnt electronics was very overwhelming.  I"m sure the Lionel tech will love to open this return.   I did try to repower the unit with the with body removed and its just kind of sizzles.  no movement or response. Breaker trips after a few seconds.  So off to Lionel she will go tomorrow.   I really love these units.   I hate that their have been so many issues.  I would never bash Lionel.  I hope y'all don't have the same issue and like always im sure Lionel will make it right.  The reason I've never had harsh words for Lionel is the've always made it right.  When they don't let the bashing begin.