Lionel Hudson Engines - large or small?

I believe most of the ones you listed are scale size. The 763, 773, 783, 784, 785 are the same size but lack detail of the others. Semi scale is a term used to described smaller than scale items as well as scale size but lacking detail.

Pete

Familiarity (NYC Hudsons are my favorite loco, only challenged by the NYC Niagara, occasionally). Price. Era (except for the 700E and its decendants - 773, 785, 783, re-issued 700E - all PW Hudsons are small, with either no prototype or a Santa fe prototype: 2055, etc.)

All Lionel Dreyfuss and ESE Hudsons are scale - but note the little PW 221 Dreyfuss "Hudson" (it's a 2-6-4; cute as a button). Anything listed as "J3" or "J3a" is 1:48 - except the Lionmaster J3a. The Commodore Vanderbilt is 1:48; the 1990's 5344 J1e with the incorrect Vanderbilt (ironically) tender is 1:48.

Is there a book? I'd like one, too.

Lionel website - look up Hudson, including archived items.

Looks - pretty much, if it isn't 1:48, it will look it - the Lionmaster J3a being an exception, pretty much.

Price.

Curve requirements - if it's under 054, it's sub-1:48, pretty dependably. 

Thanks for that information!

Lionel made many Hudson locomotives.  Then they made the best one ever.  The Vision line Hudson.

What is a PW Hudson?

Postwar.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Lionel made many Hudson locomotives.  Then they made the best one ever.  The Vision line Hudson.

Agreed Marty,

When you came out to Lionel Ohio last time I was demonstrating a VL Hudson to a friend who was a 2 rail scale guy.  He sold his 2 rail stuff and now everything is Legacy.  Impressive piece for sure.

A story to go with the first Lionel Ohio open house.  Mike calls and says what he is going to do with the open house.  Thinks about 100 people will show.  I said you're underestimating this open house.  How about I sleep over at your house and we get an early (6am) start.  Final head count was over 400.  Those were fun times.

Lou N

From purely a size perspective and without getting into the streamlined versions, I'd say there are at least 4 categories of Hudsons produced by Lionel. Others can chime in, but here's the 4 I've come up with:

1. Scale Sized - these include pre-war, post-war, and modern versions. As someone pointed out above, some might not be considered true scale models due to lack of detail, but there's a large group of from the various eras.

2. Lionmaster - New in the modern era. Not-to-scale, but more detailed than categories below. Might've only been a few offerings in this class in the 2000s (I love mine).

3. Baby Hudsons - This name, I think, was assigned to the ones like the 2046 and 2056 in the postwar period and some similar models, I think the 2065, etc.  The O27 semi-scale Hudsons made by Williams and Williams by Bachmann in the modern era are similar in size.

4. Junior Hudsons - These are even smaller than the Baby Hudsons and were made in the modern era. You can find some of these on the Lionel website. 

raising4daughters posted:

From purely a size perspective and without getting into the streamlined versions, I'd say there are at least 4 categories of Hudsons produced by Lionel. Others can chime in, but here's the 4 I've come up with:

1. Scale Sized - these include pre-war, post-war, and modern versions. As someone pointed out above, some might not be considered true scale models due to lack of detail, but there's a large group of from the various eras.

2. Lionmaster - New in the modern era. Not-to-scale, but more detailed than categories below. Might've only been a few offerings in this class in the 2000s (I love mine).

3. Baby Hudsons - This name, I think, was assigned to the ones like the 2046 and 2056 in the postwar period and some similar models, I think the 2065, etc.  The O27 semi-scale Hudsons made by Williams and Williams by Bachmann in the modern era are similar in size.

4. Junior Hudsons - These are even smaller than the Baby Hudsons and were made in the modern era. You can find some of these on the Lionel website. 

 

 

Add one more:

5. The pre-war almost a Hudson (2-6-4) 226E.  This became the post war Berkshire casting.

Lou N

Lou N posted: 

Add one more:

5. The pre-war almost a Hudson (2-6-4) 226E.  This became the post war Berkshire casting.

Lou N

Thanks. I figured there'd be more. That's why I hedged with "at least 4"

A lot of Lionel pre war stuff, like the 671 and 2020 turbine locomotives were actually built to 3/16th of an inch to the foot but run on O gauge track.  Selective compression at its best.

TM Books & Video made a very wonderfully detailed video encompassing both the scale and semi scale Hudsons - all the large ones really - made from 1937 to 2003 in very scrutinizing specifics.

It doesn't include all the junior Hudsons (doing that would require a two or three hour video for themselves alone likely), but I would recommend it for any Lionel Hudson fan.

Thank you!

I wonder where the Lionchief Plus Hudsons fall? I have heard the post war semi-scale Hudsons called Santa Fe Hundsons.

Norton posted:

I believe most of the ones you listed are scale size. The 763, 773, 783, 784, 785 are the same size but lack detail of the others. Semi scale is a term used to described smaller than scale items as well as scale size but lacking detail.

 

Pete

Let's cut this notion that semi-scale describes scale-proportioned models with fewer details. When manufacturers use the term, it is only to describe undersized models.

Some hobbyists wrongly adapted the term to bring details into the picture. Which is ridiculous, because, tell me, when is the threshold crossed for the amount of detail? It only causes confusion.

This is the Scale-sized list that I have compiled.

No Lionmaster, Baby or Junior Hudsons here.

Photo of the command ready/equipped Lionel Hudsons that were introduced around 1999, and also a Hudson Junior on the center shelf. Quite a noticeable size difference.

Is the 18043 C&O Hudson also scale?

The C&O Yellow Belly streamlined Hudson is what is referred to as semi-scale.  It's the right length, right driver diameter and even comes with a pony truck with scale wheels for display purposes.  I bought mine new in 1996 and after a year of running, the sound card self destructed.