Lionel Odyssey Demonstrator

I have the BN and Conrail versions. I run both. The Conrail has everything, TMCC, electro couplers, and the true Railsounds Board.

My BN has TMCC and Railsounds only, but the railsounds is from the PWC Burlington GP-9. They are excellent runners. I was trying to get the correct sound board for it, but its not available and I am gonna install electro couplers on the BN. How about yours?

I have both versions of the Conrail Demos.  I also have the original Conrail SD-70 with the full TMCC package.  They all are great running engines, some of my favorites.

ZWpower13,

I have not checked the sounds out, I will do that this week and let you know. Basically, these I just checked for body or truck damage, never gave a thought to powering them up to check sounds.

Ron

Ron, Some were assembled with whatever parts Lionel had on hand and not all the engines have the correct "prototypical" Sound Boards. The Conrail one is the only one I know of that came with the correct soundswith the tower com announcement matching the engine number.

Gpritch,

They made TWO versions of the Conrail?  What were they, both road numbers?

Mark,  I am curious now to see what boards are in the 4 I have, I got the SP years ago in a deal from a closing LHS, never really thought about it, and never knew their were more of the demonstrators, until I found a BNSF one on Ebay, that sparked the research into them, and in quick succession, I got the CSX then the BN versions, all off Ebay, and both were labeled as just a regular unit, I just happened to catch a corner of the logo in a picture of the BN, so took a chance and bought it. The CSX had the model number buried in the description, all four were purchased for less than a grand.

Ill bite, I am not familiar with these loco's. What are they? Thanks

Cincytrains,  They are the demonstrators Lionel made for train stores and dealers to showcase their new Odyssey speed control system, a lead in to the Legacy a few years later, similar to the Liontech equipped engines prior to TMCC rollout.

I have the "4144" Conrail demonstrator which was made from the traditional 18260 SD70MAC.  Has the railsounds chip from the Burlington PW Series GP-7.  Bought it new in a sealed box when they first came out so I know it hasn't been altered. I believe the manual for these locos even states they may not have electrocouplers and the Railsounds may not match the engine etc.

Ron, Let me know what you find out.

From What I understand, there are less then 200 of these demonstrators made. They were only available to dealers when the new odyssey was coming out.

Ed, my Conrail was sealed and included the electro couplers and the correct railsounds board. Like i posted previously, these were made with what ever parts were available at the Lionel factory at the time. I guess I got lucky with my Conrail

Mark,

Is your Conrail road number 4144 or 4145 ?  Would tend to think the 4145s have the correct sounds since they originally started as full RS locos.

Ed

That is correct, the Conrail units were 4144 and 4145.  They mirrored the conventional and TMCC versions respectively.  The 4145 demo had the correct sounds because it already had the Conrail chip set.  The 4144 did not originally come with sound or TMCC, hence Lionel used what ever it had.

I also have a BN and the SP units.  Never got the CSX or BNSF versions.

All of the 5 road names came in pairs.  Lionel was simply using what they had on hand.  I have a full listing I can post later tonight.  Keep in mind that some were SD-60's (BN & CSX) and the others were SD-70's.

Ed, my Conrail Demonstrator is 4145

Mark, mine are all the command ready units, CSX 8700, standard coupler with a Southern PWC  soundboard

BNSF 9869 with standard coupler and a NYC soundboard

BN was 9412 with standard coupler and a non functioning soundboard

SP is the 9801 with standard coupler and UP PA soundboard

Strange but as with you, I am not cracking the shell to change them, even if I could get the correct soundboard.

All but the CSX look to be never run, CSX has very fine hint of track on rollers and one truck forward wheel.

Gpritch,

If all 10 numbers were used, it would be nigh on impossible to find units TRO or better. Here I had hope to get a complete set, now I know I'm going to be perusing a lot of sites for years to come in hopes of scoring one or more.

I don't know where that information originated, but there are a lot more than that.

I believe eight were scheduled for conversion, but I'm not sure all made it. I can definitely confirm seven.

TRW

TRW, That info came from the owner of one of the top 10 dealers in the US.

TRW, what were the 7 so I know where to concentrate my efforts?

Then it was likely a guess on their part, as dealers didn't typically have access to that information.

Two road numbers, both TMCC and Upgraded Conventional:

Conrail -- 4144 and 4145

Burlington Northern -- 9412 and 9413

One road number, Upgraded Conventional:

BNSF -- 9869

CSX -- 8700

SP -- 9801

The other SKU scheduled for conversion was the TMCC version of the CSX (8701), but I'm not sure any of these made it.

TRW

OK, here are the production numbers for each model - 

CR 4144, 4145 - 375 Total 

BN 9412, 9413 - 375 Total
SP 9801 - 345 Total 
BNSF 9869, 9870 - 30 Total
CSX 8700, 8701 - 375 Total

This is what I had in my archive notes, sorry it's not clearer.

Hmmm,  Well I have a good chance of finding the 4144, 4145, 9413 and 8701 but have a snowball chance in hell of finding a 9870 with those few numbers.

Thanks for the update GPritch !!!   I now know what to be on the lookout for.

Ron

Oy vey. I'm not sure where those stats originated either, but none of that information is correct.

Again, eight locomotives were scheduled for conversion. I know at least seven of those conversions were carried out. The eighth (the TMCC CSX #8701) was originally on the list, but it is doubtful any made it.

The TMCC BNSF #9870 and SP #9800 were never a part of the program. I suppose it's always possible an oddball was produced as a trial in piloting the conversion, but these were not meant for general sale.

TRW

Based on what information?  A couple of years ago there was a similar thread on this forum where these numbers were broadly accepted.  I made note of the numbers due to my personal interest in the engines.  I don't know if the original thread still exists.

Personal experience, as I was the person that created, managed and launched the project into the marketplace.

Broadly accepted by whom? Other people that equally don't know? My feelings of consternation aren't directed at you personally, but rather the person who decided to dream up the information you presented. It doesn't have any basis in reality.

I don't know either, other than this isn't the first time the question has come up nor is it the first time I've responded with the story.

I think it's genuinely great that there is interest in this unique project, and that's why I've tried to correct the misinformation that always seems to surface any time the subject comes up. And if someone finds examples of the TMCC versions of the CSX, BNSF and SP as Odyssey Demonstrators, I'll gladly eat crow.

TRW

TRW,

I am glad to know you were responsible in spearheading the demonstrators, I personally like them, which is why collecting them.

Knowing for sure that there are only 3 more to collect, softens the angst I was having knowing the odds with information available. Every time I see one, it perks me up and I will get at least one to run on the layout which is not TRO or better quality.

Was it a marketing decision or was there plenty of interest among hobbyist and dealers for this product? Having not gotten involved in TMCC or Odyssey until recent years, I missed out on the usual buildup and runout of a new system.

That certainly puts a whole new spin on this.  Thank you for providing such details.  I will have to correct my infomation.  Now where are we on the actual build numbers?

Ron,

A quick history of the history of the Odyssey System... In the late 1990's, Lionel announced a brushless Odyssey Motor which featured the speed control that later became synonymous with the name. It was developed outside the company, but once it started along the path to manufacturing inside Lionel's US plant, all sorts of problems arose -- costs and lack of low-speed torque being the biggest offenders. Once the electronics guys that developed the "fly-by-wire" technology for the Odyssey Motor came to the conclusion that the same thing could be accomplished using an ordinary can motor, the Motor was killed-off and the Odyssey System was born. This occurred in early 2000.

I wasn't in on the initial "informal company discussions" that led to the product rework to create the demonstrators. As such, I really couldn't tell you if it was a genuine push to get the new Odyssey System into consumer's hands, or a solution to finding new homes for slow-moving inventory, as all the OEM SD-60's and SD-70's were already in house. It probably was a little of both. The 6-18288 Demonstrators first shipped in October of that year, only beating out regular production items featuring the System by about a month or so. Some of the cataloged items scheduled for late 2000 included the Odyssey System, even though it wasn't announced.

While the exact origins of the program are a little cloudy to me, I was responsible for the initiating the paperwork and marketing direction for the rework. This included the "product release" with all the details, conferring with a graphic designer to create the logo, working with a decoration engineer to find a spot where the overprinted logo wouldn't interfere with existing graphics on any of the five paint schemes, and collaborating with a technical writer on the new instruction sheet that would accompany each piece. 

The Demonstrators were advertised to dealers with a simple letter stating what was being offered. The letter made clear that road name choice would be random. If I remember correctly, there was a limit of one per dealer, although at the end, extras were probably available if you wanted more than one. I say this because the response was something of a disappointment, as the orders/production quantities were about 30% less than the forecast.

As I mentioned earlier, only eight of the ten SD-60/SD-70 SKUs were earmarked for the conversion. The TMCC versions of the BNSF and SP were virtually sold out, so none were set aside. The TMCC version of the CSX was on the conversion list, but they were also almost complete sold out at the time of the inventory "hold." Couple that with the 30% shortfall on orders, and I'm 99% certain none of these were converted.

The reason for leaving the door open just a bit on those three SKUs is because I wasn't physically in the plant when the rework occurred. There shouldn't be any TMCC BNSF and SPs out there because I never generated the correct releases for them. (These things were well documented for inventory/accounting purposes.) And while the TMCC CSX model was, in fact, authorized, the low inventory, coupled with the order shortfall and the fact that NONE have surfaced in 15 years tells me my educated hunch is correct. Having said all that, I've seen things without easy explanations come out of the plant, so I suppose anything is possible.

The other seven definitely exist. The main reason I remember the details on this stuff is I had a good friend write me wanting to know what to look for shortly after the Demonstrators shipped, and I still have my response.

I think the two feature-levels have been explained well enough, but I'll tackle it again quickly. The TMCC versions (BN and Conrail) have correct RailSounds audio boards and ElectroCouplers. The upgraded Traditional/Conventional versions have magnetic couplers and used surplus quantity RailSounds audio boards from other projects, which is why the engine name/number call-outs don't match.

I think that covers everything. It's definitely a unique project, and I encourage you to find the remaining variations you need for your collection.

Regards,

Todd Wagner

No problem. You're welcome.

I've avoided talking about the actual build numbers for two reasons. One, I don't recall the exact breakdown for each version. Two, when I was with the company, we didn't disclose such info. And even though my last days as a Lionel manager were ten years ago, it still feels that not publishing the final quantity shipped (a number I do remember) is the right thing to do.

Having said that...

The most common ones should be the Traditional/Upgraded versions of the BN and Conrail.

The other five should be about equal in availability.

I hope this helps.

TRW

I am just glad I have the ones I have :-)

TRW,

Thank you for the capsulated history. I am printing it to go in each box, so if my kids wind up reading them, they know why I collected them. It is great knowing the why for the mix of road names, and your information helps greatly.

I do have 4 of the upgrade versions, so hopefully the TMCC BN, Conrail come available at some point, I have found 2 of the upgrade Conrail but both were fairly run out, and I want ones to add to my collection or a few for the layout with plenty of run left in them.

Ron

Sure. Glad you like it.

I forgot to mention in my last posting that it shouldn't be a big deal to have your BN with the bad sound board looked at. Everything is modular in there, and there's a better chance than not it's something simple. Contact me offline and I can tell you what to look for.

Along the same lines, I'd be curious to know which exact sound cards are in your BNSF, BN and SP. Roadname and number on the TowerCom call-out would be great. I'll then add the info to my notes.

TRW

I have the Conrail Odyssey Demonstrator & got it when they first came out.  I was working at the Iron Horse Hobby Shop in Pittsburgh.  Frank Hare informed me that they were coming to the store and I stated that I will buy one.  He informed me that the shell road name & number may not be the same that would be announce from the RailSounds audio board.  This information was given to him from Lionel to have an Odyssey Demonstrator at the store to show the people how the Odyssey System would work.

Well we got two Odyssey Demonstrators & I open one of the boxes to see what road name & number was in them.  To my surprise it was a Conrail #4145 SD70MAC, well I was not into Conrail I open the other box & it was the same Conrail name & number.  I was hoping it would have been BN or CSX.

All my friends who know me who see the Conrail Odyssey Demonstrator & know the story always say that I should get more Conrail cars plus other Conrail items.  I do like Conrail but it is not the line I collect. I am a CNJ person as number one road name I collect, then Santa Fe, Pennsylvania, etc.

I ran that engine at the store for years showing off the features of the Odyssey System & we sole a lot of Odyssey engines as Lionel came out with them because the people could see the Odyssey System at work right in front of them.

It is a great system and it still works great today.

Phillip