Lionel's New Berkshires Hitless 0 for 3

I am in amazement that this happened. I wish someone could double check these before they get boxed up. I was nervous when I went to go get my NKP Version, I am making sure from now on I look at engines I order at the shop before I take it home.

That is really pathetic. I feel really bad for you. What a disappointment.

A really sad commentary on the state of the marketplace.  Buy old ones at train shows or new ones off the shelf at a hobby shop.  How frustrating. 

WOW, that is terrible and very unlucky. Looks like the QC is nonexistant.

Just a thought here, but I've been reading of this problem starting this week with the first people to receive these. 

This MAY not be an assembly issue as much as a possible packaging issue...maybe the packaging foam is not up to the job of keeping the front and rear trucks from flopping around in transit.

I remember seeing new "O" Lionel 2-6-6-2's back in the early 2000's that had cracked pilot assemblies new out of the package due to not being protected by the package.

At any rate, Lionel has a looming issue to deal with and I'm sure they will step up and make these right-just not as fast as we'd like.

You're looking at a small sample size, but I think it's like sitting next to someone on an airplane who spills something on you: Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is intentional.

Either there is a disgruntled/sloppy/incompetent/overworked employee(s) at that point on the assembly line, the packaging is inadequate, or something else.  Regardless, the Quality Control and post-assembly inspection appears to be nonexistent.  Your experience points to a problem in the manufacturing and delivery system, not to bad luck (i.e., "what are the odds?").

This needs to be brought to the highest levels of attention at Lionel.  Until then, other suggestions about opening the package immediately, buying used at a show, etc. are all the right things to do.

Pretty sobering post, thanks for sharing.

Paul

  I  got my 765 from Charles RO.  Looking at your photos, I have the same side bearing failure on the front pilot and the trailing truck.  The bearing failure on the trailing truck is on the most rearward wheels.   I am in the process of deciding whether send it to Lionel for repair and at whose expense;  request repair parts from Lionel with and an understanding from Lionel that this would not void their warranty; or send it back to RO for replacement or refund.  

  It is disconcerting to think that a new out of the box engine wheel failure could cause one of these engines to hit the floor during operation.  It would be an interesting challenge of diplomacy and will to file a damage claim with Lionel.

Perhaps Charle RO received a pallet of defective engines. If that be the case, then it would probably be difficult to get a replacement for these BTO engines.

  I would much appreciate your thoughts on your resolution to this issue.

Chris Cook

This is starting to look like a common problem on these new Berkshires.

 I imagine the gears are starting to whir over at Lionel.

Rod

Unreal, it is not only Lionel, just seems like all products and companies these days have QC issues. 

Art

Paul - I feel your pain and I admire how well you posted the issue that you have. Me, with around $3k out of pocket I'd be fuming.

No one has suggested it yet, but why not send your pics to Mike Reagan?

I hope you get it resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

Painful

While I certainly understand your frustration after investing more money than some people make in one month.  Can't those bushings be super glued back into position with little effort?  Are all 3 bushings in the boxes or did you just get two?  

It is amazing that all 3 engines have basically the same issue.  Hopefully you will be able to get it all squared away without too much hassle.  I am sure Lionel will do what it needs to make it right. Especially on $1,000 engines!

Too bad about the problems, always frustrasting when it happens.

I must say, each time I see it, I'm liking that gold engine more and more.

Joe

I'm sure it is an unintentional materials issue.  I'm pretty sure ALL of the berks are, or will shortly, develop this issue.  The plastic is too brittle and will not stand the stress over time... especially on an axle.  We can only hope that the same resin was not used on other areas.  And at that price point, you could have built them in the US.  I'm waiting for my PE to show up.  $10 says it has an issue.

I'm pretty sure that Lionel personnel will read this and take appropriate action. Of course it is disappointing to have a new engine with any failures, but as Marty has said, once repaired, these are spectacular engines.

Please let us know how you make out with the repairs, Paul.

Okay everyone. I know what I'm about to say won't be agreed on by all but it's my opinion. I know somebody may likely post that such occurences aren't that much of an issue since Lionel has Mike R. in charge of customer service and that he's a great asset to Lionel. Aside from Mike R. being a great asset, Lionel likely wouldn't need to depend on him to such an extent if their quality control were better. Perhaps he'd be better utilized if he were positioned on site at the factories where these problems originate overseeing that they don't occur rather than being in N.C. to deal with rectifying them after the fact. To me, being proactive beats being reactive any day in  any endeavor.

Luckily, that guy was on a break when mine was assembled.  Perfect.  I love it.  Here is mine, relabeled as the Canon City, Blanca and Glen Canyon Railroad #765, with its 2-10-4 big brother.

Waiting for my Gold PE. It will delivered to FL while I am in NC. If there are issues like this, it will be a field trip to Charlotte from NC. Maybe Lee Willis will come with me!

That way I can ask questions as well. Have to agree that while a problem, not a fatal flaw. That being said, I don't yet have mine.

Bruce

quote:

This MAY not be an assembly issue as much as a possible packaging issue...maybe the packaging foam is not up to the job of keeping the front and rear trucks from flopping around in transit.

Assembly issue or packaging issue, it is still Lionel's problem.
If it was a packaging issue, the part would be somewhere in the box.

Sad to see that a trusted brand name would let it's QC sink this low. It should never have happened. period. And yes I do like Lionel, tis a shame.

I don't know what to say other than I really feel bad for your guys getting new exciting engines just before Christmas and then to discover there is something wrong with them.  It almost doesn't matter what is wrong, but the fact that they aren't new and trouble-free out of the box sucks. 

If we were buying cheap junk from China we might expect something like this.  Well, at least they weren't cheap. 

Art

It isnt just model trains. I have had the same issues of crummy quality in a dishwasher, two vacuums..and more recently, a laptop which did not work out of the box. Guess what?

I found out later, my wife's friend bought an identical laptop and...same issue. 

I am not saying Lionel is off the hook but this is not an isolated problem. I bought a Williams EP5 new in the box. The front truck fell out. A Lionel 0-8-0 no longer smokes despite never having been run empty. One of the reciprocating rods spark. Brand new.

Its all over.

Are you guys printing you own money?  How many times do you guys buy this stuff, knowing you gotta rattle the box before you open it?  If these were automobiles that would not start the next morning, would you go back and buy TWO more?

Sorry you have to deal with these issues. With that said, **** those 3 engines look impressive Lined up!

This isn't a new problem, and it isn't a coincidence.  I had exactly the same issue with lead & trailing truck bearings on my 6-11203 Pere Marquette Berkshire a few years ago.  My $1000+ loco couldn't be run until Lionel supplied a couple of $0.80 replacement parts--which were out of stock for a little while because the loco was "too new."  I have great empathy for anyone who has a problem with this, or any other new loco!

By choosing delrin inserts for bearings, Lionel abandoned some long accepted engineering practices.  Since the failures are common, maybe they need to rethink this decision.  But what I would really like to know is, how are these bearings getting broken, with no other damage to the loco or the box?

Sorry to hear of your problems. I will open mine today to inspect. I have always felt like we must flood Lionel/MTH with returns even though it is a fixable issue at home and will cost you a few more bucks.  Only when they have massive continuous returns on multiple products will they begin initiating changes.  At that point things will begin to change because it will become more cost effective. Until then they are just shoving it on you the customer. I suppose this post will violate some forum rules and I will be excommunicated. 

Sorry but that is the way I see it on my $2,000 purchase. 

A very valid point...

100 percent in your case...Maybe, the policy name needs to be changed. Buy it defective to order (BDO).. IMHO, If I need to have it repaired out of the box-I consider it buying used product!

If some can get over the, "I have to have it syndrome. They should demand cash refunds for defective train hardware.

This is the only way the quality will rise. The Company will need to change or fail.

Good to know.... I am now checking all of ours before they ship.... Thanks.

Just another example of lack of hands on quality control at the factory level.  The one forgotten part of assembly equation is the lack of "pride" in what the assemblers do on the line.  There is no possibility of this in China since it is mostly slave labor and all they want is their little money, a roof over their head and their rice and fish meals.  Another words, China's factory workers really don't care about the product they are building.

Steve, Lady and Tex

I know Lionel will resolve the issue, I have no doubts about that, Mike R and I have talked many times in the past. And all of my issues with some pieces that I have had have been resolved quickly. Disappointed yes, unhappy no which maybe attributive somewhat to the fact that I do not have a operating layout. The engines look great and I'm happy that I have mine. I had the 2 Polar Express pre-ordered right after they were announced last year so I could not wait to have them.

I have another photo of the bearing that I took last night. The last one that I took out the box was the gold Polar and laying inside the box was the smaller piece from the photo above. And I was scratching my head as to what is it and were it was from. So I now believe it is part of the bearing. The bearings did not fall out immediately but as I was picking them up from the tracks. The one bearing from the rear truck was in there but it was in there sideways.

But all in all I'm pleased with the pieces and the best one has to be the Gold Polar Express which is just stunning. No sooner then I took the tender out of the box and started to put it next to the black that I noticed how much better it looked then the black one. I would love to be able to buy just a Black Polar Tender Body with the WIDER LETTER SPACING. I'm not sure of the lettering on the first Polar tender and I don't know exactly where mine is.

Whew. Lotsa words.

Yeah, ideally, the bushing problems "should" not have happened. But, they did, and are

pretty easily fixable. (I've done it.) I have sent a loco back to Lionel (bad Pittman - odd!) and MTH (bad DCS/PS2). Been a while. It's really annoying to have to.

I used to know an O-gauger who would hit the ceiling over any little problem (and the truly

big ones? Fuggedaboutit!) and could spend weeks - months - wrestling with whoever

was the offending importer, all the while not getting any use, not to mention pleasure, out of his recent purchase. "It's the principle of the thing!" 

Posh. It's a model. When you can, fix it and enjoy it; if you can't, then contact the

appropriate entities for credit, repair, replacement or refund. 

I'm not making light of a big purchase that just goes oink - but, really guys, geopolitics

has little to do with it. I know for a fact - as do you all - that not every piece that

came out of Irvington, Hillside or Chesterfield was flawless. And those products were,

by comparison, simple, small, plain and repetitive.

Yup collect your paycheck and leave .. No difference really . I must be different I installed a kitchen yesterday and took a cabinet down 3 times to make sure it was right ..

Here is just one report on problems in China's factories:

http://www.globalsources.com/N...inese-factories.html

Steve, Lady and Tex