Lionel's "new" Southern Crescent Limited

I think Southern's new model of 4501 is modeling the excursion scheme that she wore from the mid-60's to the mid 90's.  She had a red roof during that time.  It will be interesting to see when the '01 emerges from the shop later this year what color she is.

Mr Nance, I asked this question about the Southern and did not get a response.  A few years ago, Lionel had a Southern steamer that ran on O54 curves.  Is this new one different from the old one aside from the fact that it will run on O36?  I, too, am a fan of the 1401 in the Smithsonian.

Oh I agree completely. And I'm sure Lionel knows they can sell more mikados if they paint them is green opposed to black, because that's what's more memorable then one thinks of Southern Railway steam engines.

I don't expect Lionel to be historically accurate when it comes to their models. I look to companies like weaver and 3rd-Rail for those kind of products. I think that Weaver's streamlined Ps-4 was an excellent model.

Anybody else question Lionel's depiction of what shade of green Southern used? That color they use now, is not Virginia Green. Lionel's shade of green is to dark I think.

I currently have 13 Southern locomotives (some steam and some diesel) and green is fine with me. 

If the new model does indeed run on O36, one of them may find a place on my roster.

I should get mine this afternoon or tomorrow.  I will try it on 0-36 and o-48 but I think its rated for 0-54, though.  

It depends which Southern Ry Mike that Lionel wants to model. The correct ORIGINAL color of an MS-4 Southern Mike should indeed be black. However, when Paul Merriman purchased the #12 (originally SRR #4501) from the Kentucky & Tennessee, and took her the TVRM, in order to run excursions on the SRR, Master Mechanic, Steam Mr. Bill Purdy painter #4501 Southern Ry GREEN. Thus, Lionel could offer their  2-8-2 model both ways, i.e black or green and it would be correct.

Also, SRR #4501 (NOT 1401, which is a PS-4) is currently not painted ANY color (other than protective primer), since she is under complete overhaul in the TVRM shops.

Sorry, I caught my error, regarding the cab number of the Sou. mikado vs. the Sou. Ps-4.

Ben

Southern changed over to Sylvan Green from Virginia Green during the early 1930s. I forget the exact year but sometime when browsing my TIES Magazine Library I will search for the article. Also, during early WWII Southern changed from Real Aluminuim paint to Imitation Aluminium [which is actually a gray as described with its paint number] two reasons: [1]real aluminuim "went to war" and , [2] the acid wash at the Yard's locomotive/car washers soon destroyed the real aluminuim finish.

Info that will cause you to sleep sounder I'm sure.

As regards 4501 we are lucky to have 3 paint options enabling us to spend more money:[1]the green fan-trip engine, [2]the K&T #12 in coal dust black and,[3] the standard Southern Railway freight workhorse black engine paint/ trim scheme with the red tender deck and graphite smokebox and firebox.

I would like to see this Legacy PS-4 engine come out in post-WWII colors.  Lionel's 2006 model of this engine in post war colors was nice, but it did not have Legacy.

Well if you model prior to Southern selling 4501 to the K&T, then I still say MTH did a far better job with the model.

Ben

#4762 was an early Ms-1 Class as opposed to #4501 which, as you know, was a Ms Class and Southern's first Mikado. The Ms-1 was was a standard USRA light design Mikado brought to the Southern just after WWI.  However, even as a "light" Mikado, the Ms-1 is 20,000 lbs heavier and has 3,000 lbs more tractive force than the earlier Ms Class. # 4762 was built at the Schenectady Works and its Class of Locomotive spent most of its work time on the Eastern Lines in the rolling Piedmont area of North and South Carolina and Georgia---Charlotte, Spartanburg, Columbia, Savannah and, a few toiled on the Western Lines----Memphis Chatanooga.

Mine arrived an hour ago.  I'll post a short review separately.

Video Lee???!!!

It's a beautiful model! That red roof is a bit of a surprise, as are those white running boards.

I too wish Lionel or MTH would look at schemes other than the original Crescent Limited of 1927 - 1934. Southern Railway dropped the two toned passenger cars and train name on the tender after 1934 due to the Depression for cost saving reasons. 

I would like to obtain a Ps-4 someday, but for now I am satisfied with my 1992 Lionel 4501. Having a nice set of Southern heavyweight passenger cars in solid Pullman green with either the early serif-ed or postwar block style lettering should be a good seller to railroaders in the south. 

Lionel just posted an instructional video of this engine in the blue comet scheme...good video but could they please do it in full frame/ screen and also HD...

Are you guys gonna weather those pretty Pacifics.

The red roof is incorrect but it is still a beautiful engine. Both Mike Wolf and his brother-in-law Mark Hipp knew that in 1992. I am suprised that Lionel reverted to the red roof after getting both their earlier #1396 and #1403 correct.

I did early paint and trim research on the Spencer Shops numbered Ps-4s [and the PAs] for MTH and finally came to realize that they felt a red roof marketed much better than green.

Admittedly, market size was not a small risk for an infant company just starting out with scarce capital. But I suggested that they ride over to D. C. and visit the Green-roofed #1401 in the Smithsonian, but it still didn't change their druthers. However, to his credit, Mike shipped my #1396 Crescent Limited Proto 1.0/QSI with a green cab roof--marked in big black letters on the outer carton "green roof".

The SHRHA and TIEs Magazine's various Editors and Writers have over the years researched the Ps-4 paint schemes and concluded in their 5-issue series on the Ps-4s that a red cab roof was a rairity and did not occur on the Spencer and /or Pegram Shops engine numbers modeled by MTH and Lionel. [The G Scale Aristocraft Crescent Limited is painted correctly].

The research explaining the "red roof syndrome" that seemed have the most weight relates to an event on Erlanger Hill south of Cincinnati on Southern's CNO&TP, which was a favorite photo op for the rail press when the "Those Aristocratic Harrison Pacifics" first hit the rails and, as it turned out right from the Builders, a Ps-4 with a red cab roof was photgraphed. However, a Western Lines writer and photographer reported that when first shopped at Ferguson it was changed to match the fleet. Photo Journalists such as Ben Roberts who prowled the Southern's Eastern, Central and Western Lines extensively wrote that he never saw a red cab-roofed Ps-4 although he discovered one with flat black on AGS.

Western lines Painter Jim Jordan's rendition of the gorgeous #6689 Queen & Crescent sitting in Birmingham on the AGS is all Green'n Gold including the Green roof. The flyer attached to the rear of my copy emphasized the extent of Jordan's research to get the paint shade and decoration of both the locomotive and the non-matching passenger Cars correct. The Cars coupled are the "dull" Pullman Green with AGS markings as opposed to the Sylvan shade so often depicted in paintings and on models of the Southern.

Then, there are those Lionel red-roofed Southern Asheville Division Ts-1 Mountain Class[those"Magnificient Mountains"] that were shopped at Spencer. Lionel received color photos and historical data regarding the flat black cab roofs. The Assistant to the then President responded via letter, " thanks we have filed the information".

In the long run none of this is worth "spit" but it is the record for those interested in pursuing it.