This is an effort to cater to the desires of the legacy 2 rail crowd. Is there anything wrong with having traction tires? No. In fact each engine will pull much more with traction tires. Some BLI HO engines with traction tires can pull over 100 cars. It all depends on what you want. Personally I prefer not having them for the reasons Matt listed above.
Broadway Limited (BLI) and MTH's HO-scale steam locos are being sold with extra wheelsets. The chassis is designed for an easy swap. The American Models S-gauge steam locos are also made this way. Then everyone would be happy.
I've addressed this point to Mike and Andy Edelman directly at York. MTH and the other manufacturers are just too stingy to redo their 20+ year-old tooling and make this feature a reality for us in O scale 
And they never will, as long as you keep buying the product!
jonnyspeed posted:Is there anything wrong with having traction tires?
If you care one whit about realism you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Go to a 2 rail show and ask for locos with traction tires. They'll laugh you out the door.
Tell me why they are needed even in 3R when Lionel made stuff without them for years that ran just fine!
Simon
Len B posted:I really don't understand all the fuss with traction tires. Granted, I only run modern stuff and don't have the experience with the classics like some of you. That said, there are traction tires on every one of my 100+ engines. I've never replaced one in the 20 years I've been running some of these units and never once had an issue.
Wow! You are very lucky. When I was a 3 Railer I had a MTH Mikado that was constantly throwing the traction tire. In my opinion the additional traction of the tire was not worth the aggravation.
Simon Winter posted:jonnyspeed posted:Is there anything wrong with having traction tires?
If you care one whit about realism you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Go to a 2 rail show and ask for locos with traction tires. They'll laugh you out the door.
Tell me why they are needed even in 3R when Lionel made stuff without them for years that ran just fine!
Simon
They aren't - just another marketing maneuver that has evolved to being an accepted belief and dogma.
I would tend to believe high rail wheels and traction tires are an absolute must for a beginner at a young age that is inexperienced with laying track. Rail King engines should be a line for sharp curves, steep grades and the hobbyist who just want to have fun without the frustration. Premier engines should be a line that should never have a traction tire or high rail wheels.
How long have manufacturers used "All wheel" pickup in their list of features? For most, it's a feature that helps keep things running smoothly over dirty track or through insulated frog on a switch, etc.. If those things can be solved, with keep alive circuits, dead rail control, etc... then I see traction tires more of a possibility. I would prefer to see manufacturers not place a traction tire around the perimeter of the wheel, rather see what other adhesion methods can improve the pulling power of the model locomotives.
OK gang your assignment is to dig out the old 50's Lionel catalogs and find the part number for traction tires. Hint: They're probably close to the snipe car.
Simon
I'll put traction tire wheelsets on all my large scale locos if I can. I'd rather have a lightweight loco that pulls great than a big heavy weighted down non-tire loco.
Simon Winter posted:jonnyspeed posted:Is there anything wrong with having traction tires?
If you care one whit about realism you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Go to a 2 rail show and ask for locos with traction tires. They'll laugh you out the door.
Tell me why they are needed even in 3R when Lionel made stuff without them for years that ran just fine!
Simon
Realism as in running on 5ft. gauge? Is there an internal combustion diesel prime mover in your engines? Do you run Kadee couplers? do you run Proto 48 flanges and track? Get the point? It is the attitude that you describe that is killing O scale. Bunch of old irritable guys that are so set in their ways they will never change or accept that someone may want to do something different. There is a reason HO has progressed and is such an innovate scale.
"Realism" is relative. We all make compromises in our modeling whether we admit it or not. At least 3R modelers have to common sense to just enjoy what they like and don't look down their noses at people that they deem unworthy and "Laugh you out the door".
This is why I don't bother with joining an O scale club. This kind of attitude really irritates me. O scale deserves what is coming with this mentality.
jonnyspeed posted:Simon Winter posted:jonnyspeed posted:Is there anything wrong with having traction tires?
If you care one whit about realism you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Go to a 2 rail show and ask for locos with traction tires. They'll laugh you out the door.
Tell me why they are needed even in 3R when Lionel made stuff without them for years that ran just fine!
Simon
Realism as in running on 5ft. gauge? Is there an internal combustion diesel prime mover in your engines? Do you run Kadee couplers? do you run Proto 48 flanges and track? Get the point? It is the attitude that you describe that is killing O scale. Bunch of old irritable guys that are so set in their ways they will never change or accept that someone may want to do something different. There is a reason HO has progressed and is such an innovate scale.
"Realism" is relative. We all make compromises in our modeling whether we admit it or not. At least 3R modelers have to common sense to just enjoy what they like and don't look down their noses at people that they deem unworthy and "Laugh you out the door".
This is why I don't bother with joining an O scale club. This kind of attitude really irritates me. O scale deserves what is coming with this mentality.
Wow. You seem to have put all the 2 rail modelers in the same category. Thanks for labeling me and the others irritable and old. Old? Yes, I agree I am old at 73. Can't help that. Irritable? Not according to most of my acquaintances.
I also didn't realize O scale itself was dying. Many O scale PEOPLE including 3 railers are dying, but I don't see O scale itself dying.
Did one of you guys call me? Old & Irritable, here. What was it you are asking about, again?
rheil posted:jonnyspeed posted:Simon Winter posted:jonnyspeed posted:Is there anything wrong with having traction tires?
If you care one whit about realism you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Go to a 2 rail show and ask for locos with traction tires. They'll laugh you out the door.
Tell me why they are needed even in 3R when Lionel made stuff without them for years that ran just fine!
Simon
Realism as in running on 5ft. gauge? Is there an internal combustion diesel prime mover in your engines? Do you run Kadee couplers? do you run Proto 48 flanges and track? Get the point? It is the attitude that you describe that is killing O scale. Bunch of old irritable guys that are so set in their ways they will never change or accept that someone may want to do something different. There is a reason HO has progressed and is such an innovate scale.
"Realism" is relative. We all make compromises in our modeling whether we admit it or not. At least 3R modelers have to common sense to just enjoy what they like and don't look down their noses at people that they deem unworthy and "Laugh you out the door".
This is why I don't bother with joining an O scale club. This kind of attitude really irritates me. O scale deserves what is coming with this mentality.
Wow. You seem to have put all the 2 rail modelers in the same category. Thanks for labeling me and the others irritable and old. Old? Yes, I agree I am old at 73. Can't help that. Irritable? Not according to most of my acquaintances.
I also didn't realize O scale itself was dying. Many O scale PEOPLE including 3 railers are dying, but I don't see O scale itself dying.
Yeah, Bob. This is the regular trash the O scaler silliness - wait, you are old! Irritable? Not that I've ever noticed and certainly nor more than me - wait, I'm pretty irritable..no, wait, got that confused with irascible...or maybe dyspeptic....or well, at least I'm not old...I listen to Tool now and not Mountain....and I don't eat squirrels either....well, not too often anymore!
In fact, I have it on good authority that I might be one of the youngest selling at Strasburg...well, younger than Dunn...... Then again, if my body were a car, I would trade it in for a new model. Every time I cough, sneeze or sputter, my radiator leaks and my exhaust backfires....
Dying out.....O scale has been announced as dying out for decades yet it's still here......ya, numpties!
Well, the people are dying out so just put this in the old briar pipe and smoke it a bit: Pale death and impartial tread beats at the poor man’s cottage and the palaces of kings. We're all in this together and no one get out except through the singular exit sign.....
Pretty bad when all it takes is a stupid traction tire to start a conflagration. I guess that is better than our other forum, where the topic of conversation most popular is pig squeal sound effects for your cattle cars.
I like Hot's answer best.
bob2 posted:Pretty bad when all it takes is a stupid traction tire to start a conflagration. I guess that is better than our other forum, where the topic of conversation most popular is pig squeal sound effects for your cattle cars.
I like Hot's answer best.
Actually, Bob, it wasn't the traction tires that started the conflagration;it was the comment that O scale is dying out and we're all old and irritable. As a long time O scaler you are included with us.
bob2 posted:Pretty bad when all it takes is a stupid traction tire to start a conflagration.
That's quite the over-inflated sense of hyperbole there, Bob. What's next? Dogs & cat's sleeping together?
I guess that is better than our other forum, where the topic of conversation most popular is pig squeal sound effects for your cattle cars.
rheil posted:
jonnyspeed posted:Simon Winter posted:jonnyspeed posted:Is there anything wrong with having traction tires?
If you care one whit about realism you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Go to a 2 rail show and ask for locos with traction tires. They'll laugh you out the door.
Tell me why they are needed even in 3R when Lionel made stuff without them for years that ran just fine!
Simon
Realism as in running on 5ft. gauge? Is there an internal combustion diesel prime mover in your engines? Do you run Kadee couplers? do you run Proto 48 flanges and track? Get the point? It is the attitude that you describe that is killing O scale. Bunch of old irritable guys that are so set in their ways they will never change or accept that someone may want to do something different. There is a reason HO has progressed and is such an innovate scale.
"Realism" is relative. We all make compromises in our modeling whether we admit it or not. At least 3R modelers have to common sense to just enjoy what they like and don't look down their noses at people that they deem unworthy and "Laugh you out the door".
This is why I don't bother with joining an O scale club. This kind of attitude really irritates me. O scale deserves what is coming with this mentality.
Wow. You seem to have put all the 2 rail modelers in the same category. Thanks for labeling me and the others irritable and old. Old? Yes, I agree I am old at 73. Can't help that. Irritable? Not according to most of my acquaintances.
I also didn't realize O scale itself was dying. Many O scale PEOPLE including 3 railers are dying, but I don't see O scale itself dying.
Wouldn't you agree that "laugh you out the door" is an irritable attitude? It's also an ignorant attitude for the reasons I pointed out. What it boils down to is that if you don't want to adopt things the way they've "always been done" then you are going to be in for a bumpy ride in 2R. DCC? none of that new fangled mumbo-jumbo here... Sound? No way, just the whirr of my Pittman motor as God intended. Smoke? Are you kidding? You can leave now!
That is exactly the kind of response I've received over and over. Oh well, I'm 42 so I've got plenty of time (God willing) to model the way I want to. My railroad, my rules. BTW...I don't want traction tires either, but I wouldn't run someone out the door for asking or suggesting it. The difference between O and HO (and to a lesser extent S) is the general attitude of the community. As someone who has modeled in N, HO, S, and O I can say without a doubt that there is a HUGE difference between the communities in the different scales. Speaking in generalities, the intolerance of the larger scales is frustrating.
Apologies for getting this thread off course. It touched a sore spot. Obviously...
Wouldn't you agree that "laugh you out the door" is an irritable attitude? It's also an ignorant attitude for the reasons I pointed out. What it boils down to is that if you don't want to adopt things the way they've "always been done" then you are going to be in for a bumpy ride in 2R. DCC? none of that new fangled mumbo-jumbo here... Sound? No way, just the whirr of my Pittman motor as God intended. Smoke? Are you kidding? You can leave now!
Jonathan,
Your comment about not adapting to newer technology got me to thinking. I know many 2 railers and did a count of the ten I know best that have layouts.
DC - 2 DCC - 6 Battery -1 DCS - 1
Of those 10 (including me) at least 7 have sound in some or all of their locomotives. I'll leave now.
rheil posted:Wouldn't you agree that "laugh you out the door" is an irritable attitude? It's also an ignorant attitude for the reasons I pointed out. What it boils down to is that if you don't want to adopt things the way they've "always been done" then you are going to be in for a bumpy ride in 2R. DCC? none of that new fangled mumbo-jumbo here... Sound? No way, just the whirr of my Pittman motor as God intended. Smoke? Are you kidding? You can leave now!
Jonathan,
Your comment about not adapting to newer technology got me to thinking. I know many 2 railers and did a count of the ten I know best that have layouts.
DC - 2 DCC - 6 Battery -1 DCS - 1
Of those 10 (including me) at least 7 have sound in some or all of their locomotives. I'll leave now.
I 'm sure that's true Bob. Perhaps you run in a different circle? Sounds like a group I'd like to meet.
I'm speaking from my experience. However, I asked Scott Mann why he didn't offer DCC in every 2 rail engines. He said only ~10% of his market ran DCC. I'm sure you've discussed that with Scott too. I asked him about why he didn't offer smoke in 2 Rail and he gave a similar answer - not what the market wants. I asked MTH why they seem to be going away from Scale wheeled models, the answer was that sales were declining in 2R as well as 3R so they were going to focus more on HO going forward as far as investing in new tooling.
In my experience there is an arrogance that comes from many 2R modelers I've met. It's ironic because they are making compromises as well, just not to the degree of someone in 3R. When I here comments like "laugh you out the door" it bugs me. That attitude is contra-intuitive to the health and future of said club. Anecdotally, everyone I've met in Proto:48 has been very friendly and helpful.
If someone wants to run traction tires, battery power, 2 Rail Legacy, DCS, Live Steam, Bluetooth, atomic power, etc... I say more power to them. If that is how they want to enjoy the hobby then who are we to say that their interests and passions are less valid than our own? If O scale is going to survive it needs to be more open to new ideas, new ways of doing things, and stop "laughing people out the door".
I don't want to derail this thread any further so I'll just let it be now.
When I convert 3 rail locos to 2 rail, the traction tires are never re-installed. I have never had a complaint about this and the models with carbon steel tires pull very nicely. I see no need for a component that wears out and needs replacement as often as the traction tires do. Sometimes I have received 3 rail locos that have been in use and the traction tires looked like they were on their way out.
On one occasion, i removed the traction tires from a 3 rail Ten Wheeler for a customer at a local hobby shop and replaced them with steel tires. The customer told the hobby shop owner he was tired of replacing traction tires. This is not something I want to do on a regular basis. I try to limit my machine work to 2 rail standard O scale projects.
Joe
Well Jon,
I hope you don't mind me calling you Jon, as to me Jonathan will always be the guy that planted the apples.
We are having some fun here with all this, and don't be concerned about derailing anything apart from your locos! If everyone here agreed, the conversation would have been over in 5 seconds.
5 foot gauge. The only part that never made any sense to me was why have the gauge different from everything else. If you are going 5 foot gauge then use 17/64 for the rest.
As for being able to see the difference in track, if we spike up identical components, one to 5 foot and one to P48 with NOTHING else to reference to, I don't see any way one could tell them apart viewing them one at a time.
As for being laughed at, maybe not literally, but if you go to one of the 2 rail shows, try and buy some traction tires. I bet you will get some looks! I actually have a 2R Weaver engine that came with traction tires in the box. Since the engine was sold in both 2 and 3 rail. I suppose it was just easier to throw tires in every box.
I use Protocraft couplers.
I am not nearly as old as that Hile fellow, but I am gaining every day! Stop laughing Bob!!!
I like your idea of nuclear power, but my choice is RC Battery. If anything can unite the 2 and 3 railers, it will be that, not that I think there is any need to do so, or that one way is better than another. Purely preference.
I do NOT have nightmares about traction tires, or even traction tyres for you Limeys.
As for smoke, I remember putting smoke PILLS in my Lionel steamer. They had an interesting scent/odor. Maybe that's the reason I'm the way I am. 
I've always been more worried about my personal survival the that of "O". Does that make me a bad person?
Don't take any of this too seriously except for the last:
Have a good day, my friend!
Simon
Ace posted:I preferheavy locomotives with NO traction tires, regardless of scale or gauge. They have better electrical pickup and fewer maintenance issues down the road.
I believe I read somewhere that one reason for the manufacturers using traction tires is to get traction without extra weight, because added weight adds to shipping costs and increases chances of shipping damage to new items. How much truth in that?
Ace,
I think it's a fairly safe bet that the almighty GREENBACK is the key factor in the equation.
Simon
rrjjf posted:On one occasion, i removed the traction tires from a 3 rail Ten Wheeler for a customer at a local hobby shop and replaced them with steel tires.
Joe, will you please elaborate a bit? I might want to do this for some of my models. Did you make completely new wheel rims without a groove, or did you just make steel bands to fit in the existing groove? If the latter, how did you get them in and seated even with the rest of the wheel? Thanks!
I can elaborate - carbon steel, or high grade iron, locomotive tires seem to have little "fingers" that grab the rail, even when we polish them. I have a little Atlantic in 17/64 with cast iron drivers one side and carbon steel tires on the other, and it has pulled ten very heavy Kasiner cars. A similar import with steel tires, plated in nickel, could barely pull four.
Yes, I can tell the difference in track widths. I have both widths on my test track layout. The wrong track gauge bothers me, but we are apparently stuck with it. I am skilled enough to machine my own drivers, but not skilled enough to actually run Proto-48 tread widths. They do look good . . .
I have 2 Sunset PRR H6 (small 2-8-0) locos in 2 rail. No traction tires obviously. They run great and pull 25 cars on level track. They easily handle more than 15 on my 1 1/2% grade. They run good up hill and down hill. I really like them.
A friend has a 3 rail layout and has at least one in 3 rail with traction tires. He says he has all sorts of problems with it, especailly going down hill, it jerks and balks and bumps and grinds. I suspect it is gear lash caused the the traction tired wheels not sliding on curves and what not to adjust for the radius. This would be more prevalent on sharper 3 rail curves.
On my layout, I also have mikados and decapods, but my normal train length is between 20-23 cars for through freights during operating sessions. Locals tend to be anywhere from 8-18 cars. Since to H6 is so much smaller than the mainlone engines, I don't like to see it pulling 20 cars trains. I usually only assign to less about 12 cars. So it has much more than enough pulling power without rubber tires. And a major advantage is I never have to replace them when they wear out!!
jonnyspeed posted:rheil posted:Wouldn't you agree that "laugh you out the door" is an irritable attitude? It's also an ignorant attitude for the reasons I pointed out. What it boils down to is that if you don't want to adopt things the way they've "always been done" then you are going to be in for a bumpy ride in 2R. DCC? none of that new fangled mumbo-jumbo here... Sound? No way, just the whirr of my Pittman motor as God intended. Smoke? Are you kidding? You can leave now!
Jonathan,
Your comment about not adapting to newer technology got me to thinking. I know many 2 railers and did a count of the ten I know best that have layouts.
DC - 2 DCC - 6 Battery -1 DCS - 1
Of those 10 (including me) at least 7 have sound in some or all of their locomotives. I'll leave now.
I 'm sure that's true Bob. Perhaps you run in a different circle? Sounds like a group I'd like to meet.
I'm speaking from my experience. However, I asked Scott Mann why he didn't offer DCC in every 2 rail engines. He said only ~10% of his market ran DCC. I'm sure you've discussed that with Scott too. I asked him about why he didn't offer smoke in 2 Rail and he gave a similar answer - not what the market wants. I asked MTH why they seem to be going away from Scale wheeled models, the answer was that sales were declining in 2R as well as 3R so they were going to focus more on HO going forward as far as investing in new tooling.
Jonathan,
What MTH said to you is true according to my experience. Sales are declining. There are many different opinions on why this is. One of mine is that if you have a 20 year old Honda automobile with 200K miles on it there is a good likelihood that it will end up as either scrap or being parted out when you get rid of it.
Model trains are obviously different. Take a 40 year old locomotive, change the motor, add some lubrication and it can be like new. It won't see the scrap pile. With little effort and expense May Gray, USH, All Nation, Alexander, et al can be made to run like new which eliminates the need (but not desire) to buy new train models to replace worn out ones.
Regarding sound and DCC in Sunset models ; as you know, the Sunset diesels all have sound and DCC from the factory. The recent 2 rail D&RGW 2-8-8-2 was offered with sound as an option - a first for Sunset steam power.
Scott and I will disagree regarding the percentage of 2 rail Sunset purchasers using DCC. I know for fact it is much higher than 10% from my experience doing the 2 rail shows for Sunset. Several factors currently are delaying a factory DCC option including the desire of many 2 railers to do it themselves using the decoder of their choice rather than that of the importer plus 2 railers don't want to spend the $ for a factory install in many cases. This same scenario applies for sound in 2 rail.
As a general rule I would say the majority of 2 railers (including me) don't want smoke and features such as crew talk according to what I hear at shows. But, you know what, if I could have a realistic looking billow of black smoke blasting out of the stack of a B&O S-1 in synch with the piston exhaust, well, I might change my mind - at least for a few minutes. Now, if it smelled like real coal smoke THAT would be a different story.
Perhaps we can chat some more at the Cleveland show in November. I'll be there with the Sunset/GGD display and RRJJF will be there with me.
Perhaps we can chat some more at the Cleveland show in November. I'll be there with the Sunset/GGD display and RRJJF will be there with me.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it. I'll buy you a coffee 
Simon Winter posted:Well Jon,
I hope you don't mind me calling you Jon, as to me Jonathan will always be the guy that planted the apples.
We are having some fun here with all this, and don't be concerned about derailing anything apart from your locos! If everyone here agreed, the conversation would have been over in 5 seconds.
5 foot gauge. The only part that never made any sense to me was why have the gauge different from everything else. If you are going 5 foot gauge then use 17/64 for the rest.
As for being able to see the difference in track, if we spike up identical components, one to 5 foot and one to P48 with NOTHING else to reference to, I don't see any way one could tell them apart viewing them one at a time.
As for being laughed at, maybe not literally, but if you go to one of the 2 rail shows, try and buy some traction tires. I bet you will get some looks! I actually have a 2R Weaver engine that came with traction tires in the box. Since the engine was sold in both 2 and 3 rail. I suppose it was just easier to throw tires in every box.
I use Protocraft couplers.
I am not nearly as old as that Hile fellow, but I am gaining every day! Stop laughing Bob!!!
I like your idea of nuclear power, but my choice is RC Battery. If anything can unite the 2 and 3 railers, it will be that, not that I think there is any need to do so, or that one way is better than another. Purely preference.
I do NOT have nightmares about traction tires, or even traction tyres for you Limeys.
As for smoke, I remember putting smoke PILLS in my Lionel steamer. They had an interesting scent/odor. Maybe that's the reason I'm the way I am.
I've always been more worried about my personal survival the that of "O". Does that make me a bad person?
Don't take any of this too seriously except for the last:
Have a good day, my friend!
Simon
We're good Simon. Sometimes things just touch a nerve... I'd be really interested in seeing/hearing more about what you are doing with battery power. I've been a long time RC modeler as well so I have extensive experience with LiPo and LiFePo4 batteries. I've played around with dead-rail a bit, but not too much. Would like to hear what it's like to really live with that system. I often wonder if battery power might not be the great uniter of 2 and 3 Rail? Anyways, I'm way off topic again.
Regards,
While I am not into 2 rail O scale, I would say that traction tires would present electrical pick-up issues.
I have 2 Williams SD-45's,3 rail, engines that I had to modify because the traction tire would not give proper outside rail pick-up. Had to replace the plastic wheel set in the truck assembly for a metal set on the non powered axle.
Lee Fritz
I hope at some time this tread end in the book of "Model Railroading" for dummies.
jonnyspeed posted:Perhaps we can chat some more at the Cleveland show in November. I'll be there with the Sunset/GGD display and RRJJF will be there with me.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it. I'll buy you a coffee
If you make to Indy in a few weeks, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk...........if we can find any at the bar that's actually worth drinking.
rheil posted:Scott and I will disagree regarding the percentage of 2 rail Sunset purchasers using DCC. I know for fact it is much higher than 10% from my experience doing the 2 rail shows for Sunset. Several factors currently are delaying a factory DCC option including the desire of many 2 railers to do it themselves using the decoder of their choice rather than that of the importer plus 2 railers don't want to spend the $ for a factory install in many cases. This same scenario applies for sound in 2 rail.
I think that Scott is way off on this - I'm one of the very few that I know of that has stayed DC only since my layout is so small and I really don't feel like taking the time to unsolder some of my engines to install anything in them. Yes, most also see this as a DIY freedom of choices exercise....
As a general rule I would say the majority of 2 railers (including me) don't want smoke and features such as crew talk according to what I hear at shows. But, you know what, if I could have a realistic looking billow of black smoke blasting out of the stack of a B&O S-1 in synch with the piston exhaust, well, I might change my mind - at least for a few minutes. Now, if it smelled like real coal smoke THAT would be a different story.
"..... a realistic looking billow of black smoke blasting out of the stack...." - that would probably sell, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, then you have to clean up the aftermath of that after it settles across your entire layout..... It's easier to put a bit of coal in the fireplace after the weather turns.
Ted,
In reponse to your question, If I remember correctly, I managed to pull the grooved tires (less traction tires) off of the driver centers with a wheel puller and then I machined new steel tires pressed against the hi rail diecast flanges on the model's drivers.
I have not figured out a way to remove solid driver tires without the traction tire groove from a loco driver without sawing through the tire and hi rail flange down to a depth that allows me to pop the steel tire off without damaging the center casting. Because when 2 railing the drivers I completely remove the diecast flange from the center casting, the cut made by the saw in the hi rail flange does not matter.
There would be no way to install a steel tire section in the grooved driver tire without removing the outer edge of the tire that forms the groove.
Joe
I agree, in my area there are not any O scalers that are not DCC. Tehre is one guy using the MTH system, but he hangs out with a bunch of 3-railers.
There is only one HO guy left in the area that I am aware of that is still straight DC.
My contacts include the model railroaders that are more into operation. I don't know about the collectors and display runners.
mwb posted:jonnyspeed posted:Perhaps we can chat some more at the Cleveland show in November. I'll be there with the Sunset/GGD display and RRJJF will be there with me.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it. I'll buy you a coffee
If you make to Indy in a few weeks, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk...........if we can find any at the bar that's actually worth drinking.
You owe me a beer from 2012 .
railroad-guy posted:mwb posted:jonnyspeed posted:Perhaps we can chat some more at the Cleveland show in November. I'll be there with the Sunset/GGD display and RRJJF will be there with me.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it. I'll buy you a coffee
If you make to Indy in a few weeks, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk...........if we can find any at the bar that's actually worth drinking.
You owe me a beer from 2012 .
I got your beer right here - oatmeal stout aged nicely in a bourbon barrel resting right next to the bottle of '83 Rothschild....
jonnyspeed posted
We're good Simon. Sometimes things just touch a nerve... I'd be really interested in seeing/hearing more about what you are doing with battery power. I've been a long time RC modeler as well so I have extensive experience with LiPo and LiFePo4 batteries. I've played around with dead-rail a bit, but not too much. Would like to hear what it's like to really live with that system. I often wonder if battery power might not be the great uniter of 2 and 3 Rail? Anyways, I'm way off topic again.
Regards,
Hello Jon,
Sorry for the delay in responding, but some real world issues came a calling and I had to address them.
My adventure into RC Battery is awaiting a house renovation (hopefully next year). I haven't done a lot of research because things are constantly changing electronics wise.
My interest in RC Battery was spurred by Andy Romano, who has posted some threads of his pike, the IRONBOUND railroad right here on this forum. If you search this forum for Ironbound you should get some results. He has also had a couple spreads in OST. Andy has been operating with RC Battery several years.
I like the idea of NO track wiring, and minimal chances of shorts and dirty track problems.
All I can say at this point is I will be looking for batteries that don't footprint.
If you get a chance, check out some of Andy's stuff. That is what sold me!
Regards,
Simon
I have little experience with US 3 rail toy market O gauge but my understanding of the HO market's use of traction tyres by some manufacturers was due at least two factors.
1) Fitting a traction tyre enabled the manufacturer to simplify the mechanical drive system to a minimal amount of powered wheels.... a cost saving!
2) It enabled them to drastically reduce the weight of the loco which had major savings in transport costs... particularly international.
They do become a maintenance issue after a while. Some chemical track cleaners can dissolve some traction tyres.
Perhaps with dead rail their advantages might outweigh their disadvantages.
Cheers
BobC
Bob Comerford posted:I have little experience with US 3 rail toy market O gauge but my understanding of the HO market's use of traction tyres by some manufacturers was due at least two factors.
1) Fitting a traction tyre enabled the manufacturer to simplify the mechanical drive system to a minimal amount of powered wheels.... a cost saving!
2) It enabled them to drastically reduce the weight of the loco which had major savings in transport costs... particularly international.
They do become a maintenance issue after a while. Some chemical track cleaners can dissolve some traction tyres.
Perhaps with dead rail their advantages might outweigh their disadvantages.
Cheers
BobC
No great mystery there. All about the money....except the $$$ the end user has to put out for new tires/tyres.
They're not really making the product better.
"Perhaps with dead rail their advantages might outweigh their disadvantages."
I don't see any advantages except for the vendor
Simon
