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I got the MTH 3 truck shay  #20-3190-1  at York.  the box says it operates on O72 curves.  When I looked up on the MTH web site it said it ran on O 42.  I have o54 and am wondering if any one has been able to run it on the smaller radius.  I will also be running on a zw transformer.  I have tmcc command and wonder if it will run on tmcc.  Any help would be great.  If I cant run it on my layout has anyone tried running it on the display rollers? 

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I have  the same Shay, it DID NOT run on my MTH RealTrax O-42. Well, it ran on the straights of course but once into the turn (very slowly of course) I can see the gears and U joints were not happy. I don't know about O-54. The gearing arrangement and the sliding rods in the U joints requires the big radius...Of course you can try it and see on your O-54. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

 

I have the MTH PS3 (same design as the PS2 model) 4-truck Shay and it runs just fine on my O54 Gargraves track with O54 Ross and Gargraves turnouts. It also runs on Atlas O54 curves. However, I don't have S-curves on my layout so I cannot say if it will back up though them without issues.

 

It will not run on either MTH O42 or the wider radius Gargraves O42. The O42 design action is incorrect.

Last edited by Barry Broskowitz
Originally Posted by Stu Gralnik:

I got the MTH 3 truck shay  #20-3190-1  at York.  ................................. I will also be running on a zw transformer.  I have tmcc command and wonder if it will run on tmcc.  ........................

I will be able to co-exist with TMCC, but you won't be able to control it's DCS command control features without the DCS hardware (TIU/Remote). 

 

Meaning, if the voltage needed to run the Shay engine as you desire in conventional is enough for the TMCC engines to function properly, you can run both at the same time.  (depending on track configuration/layout size of course)

 

-Dave

Last edited by Dave45681

Stu,

   Got to admit I passed on the MTH Shay because of exactly what you are going thru,

although the Legacy Shay also needed rear stair modification, to actually run on 036 curves while pulling logging cars, it did however run on 042 curves right out of the box.

It also runs thru my FasTrack 048 Command Control Switches with absolutely no problems.  I am waiting to see if the Legacy Shay will actually run thru the new FT CC 036 switches, if they ever get released.

PCRR/Dave

Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad

If I had been looking to buy a shay I wouldn't have got this knowing is said 072.  The cost when I looked it up is also over 3 times the money I take to York.  This was a very generous gift from the Widow I was selling the buildings for, that her husband purchased from me in the past.  Some of you may have seen them listed in the for sale section.  I do still have the DD fireworks building at 60% off.  I am currently thinking of putting a straight 8' long inclined track along he back of one side of my layout if I can find out how to set it up to auto reverse in conventional mode.  My other thought is to make a display base with the rollers so it can be seen working and hopefully with a little sound.  I also found in his collection a Lionel Heisler that will run on my layout in tmcc which I have..  I tried it with conventional and the lights come on but no sound or movement.  these are two engines that I only dreamed of ever getting so I am very grateful.

Originally Posted by Stu Gralnik:

I also found in his collection a Lionel Heisler that will run on my layout in tmcc which I have..  I tried it with conventional and the lights come on but no sound or movement.  these are two engines that I only dreamed of ever getting so I am very grateful.

I'm sure the Heisler can be brought back to life.  I have a couple of Shay's, and a Climax, so it would be cool to score a Heisler to complete the geared locomotive collection.

 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
Originally Posted by Stu Gralnik:

I also found in his collection a Lionel Heisler that will run on my layout in tmcc which I have..  I tried it with conventional and the lights come on but no sound or movement.  these are two engines that I only dreamed of ever getting so I am very grateful.

I'm sure the Heisler can be brought back to life.  I have a couple of Shay's, and a Climax, so it would be cool to score a Heisler to complete the geared locomotive collection.

 

I know this is a "duh" type of thing to look for, but make sure the program/run switch is set to run.

 

I was helping a friend try out a Lionel TMCC shay he bought (in conventional mode on the test track) and it initially didn't move.  Flipped the switch properly and then it did cycle through forward/neutral/reverse as designed. 

 

-Dave

 

Last edited by Dave45681

Stu,

I was told by someone I talked with that the early ones were limited to 072 then a change was made so they would run on 54

I can assure you that the PS2 and PS3 versions of the 4-truck Shay are mechanically exactly the same. I ascertained this while at MTH tech school last August, before I purchased the 4-truck Shay.

 

I agree that the engine is expensive (one of the most expensive engines I own), however, when you consider the detail and drive mechanism, and watch it run, I find it to be well worth the price.

I agree the engines are worth the price but the price is above my budget. I can get both engines running in conventional using a transformer and clips on the roller and wheels.  the Heisler on the track in conventional using a ZW,  I can get the sound to come on if I move the tender but still cant get it to run.

no offence taken on the DUH.  yes it is in run.  I put  a battery in it but the sound quality went bad and it didn't help getting it to run, so  took it out and the sound got better.  it was a new battery so I am not sure if the sound problem was just some of the wires jammed against the speaker.

 

I tried putting the shay on the track and powered it up through the tmcc in command mode.  the engine started winning which I am not sure if that is just the normal sound or  a problem.  I have to find my instructions on getting tmcc into conventional mode.

 

I am the first to admit that the high tech is way above my knowledge level.

I got the hiesler working and changed the number with TMCC.  It also works in conventional on a 3' test track but still not on the conventional loop on the layout.  The shay sound also works in conventional on the test track but wont move.  I will try to borrow an MTH conventional transformer and see if that works.  Below is a picture with the O gauge logging in the foreground and ON30 logging in the background on the upper level

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 Stu, even though you have a designated conventional loop on your layout and even if it's not connected to the rest of the layout. Strange as it may seem. It can still see the TMCC signal and the engine will sit their waiting to be addressed. The designated loop will work fine for conventional only engines. Unplug the command base and see if it corrects it.

Originally Posted by Dave_C:

 Stu, even though you have a designated conventional loop on your layout and even if it's not connected to the rest of the layout. Strange as it may seem. It can still see the TMCC signal and the engine will sit their waiting to be addressed. The designated loop will work fine for conventional only engines. Unplug the command base and see if it corrects it.

^^This!

 

I did a similar thing many years ago early in my involvement in the hobby.  I had 2 connected inner loops set up on a TMCC 135 watt PowerMaster and an outer unconnected (well, via track at least - read on) loop I was intending on using conventionally.

 

In my case I made the error of using a separate handle of  the Postwar ZW, which of course had a common ground (TMCC path) to the inner loop where the command base wire was hooked up.  So the command signal traveled just fine from the track back through my PowerMaster, back through the common of the ZW and to the separate loop and whatever TMCC capable engines were sitting on it. (or from various threads on the topic it might have even seen the signal from the inner loops which were in close proximity)

 

So I had the same problem that I learned I could only operate TMCC engines in TMCC mode on this loop.  It was not really a problem for me, but just a learning experience.

 

-Dave

 

 

Last edited by Dave45681

Dave C,

 

Would it be weird if I said "I love you"  who ever you are.  IT WORKED.  I unplugged the command base and the Heisler using conventional worked right a way.  Well I thought if it was waiting for a signal lets try giving it one.  Like Dave45681 both loops used the same ZW and there for the same ground.  When I plugged the command  base back in,  gave the track power and punched in the engine number.  It worked allowing me to run TMCC engines on both loops or conventional on the upper loop.

 

I am not trying to be greedy but who will be the Forum member that will give me the information to get the MTH shay running.

 

Thank you again Dave, Dave, and every one else that has helped with this mystery.

 

Last edited by Stu Gralnik

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