MTH EMD BL-2 MT-2129LP not moving

It does sound like a battery problem (hopefully). Charge the battery or replace it . To test....  Unfortunately you have no engine sounds so the standard test of shutting off track power doesn't apply .  The  sounds should continue on for about 6 or 7 seconds with no track power,

Maybe try charging the battery for about 20 minutes and see if anything changes. Proto- 2 engines requires a good battery to leave neutral.

Hi Gregg,

I swapped out the battery to a BCR Battery I bought a few weeks ago. The only problem is I am not sure if it was fully charged. Also this train does not have a charging port. I can leave it on the track for a while, but not sure if that will help. 

Chance,

Click here to see the web page for what I believe is your engine.

If that's it, then your engine was manufactured in 1996 and the problem is that it's not a PS2 engine. It will not run under DCS, except as a conventional engine.

If the battery is a white one it's shot for sure. . A BCR should  work so we're back at the beginning again.    Any proto-2 engine should register, I have one that goes back before the dcs remote & tiu were available , Still running fine under dcs.

How much stuff is on the remote? Is it worth resetting , because everything will be lost.(deleted) but will give you a clean slate to start over eliminating any ID conflicts.

Only the engine you're trying to add should be getting power. Everything else off the layout or on dead tracks.

Barry,

That is the exact one. I tried to run it as a conventional engine, but all I get are the lights on and a few coupler sounds when giving it more power. 

Is there anyway to upgrade this? or not worth it? 

Thank you

PS-1 conventional only, needs a good battery and after start up, voltage less than 10V to come out of reset.  G

Gregg,

The one I pulled out was a green battery, and swapped it out with a BCR Battery. I am letting it sit there on the track now to charge the BCR Battery. The only thing is I hear a humming noise from the train.

GGG,

Less that 10v would be how much on the dial on a Z1000?

1/2? Going to charge up the battery, hopefully I can get this to work. 

Is it possible to upgrade from a PS-1 to something compatible to my DCS ?

Thanks!

Gregg,

According to the web site, it's not even PS1.

BCR only needs one minute to charge up capacitor.

If I paid just little over $100 and the condition it almost new, do you think it is worth keeping or asking for my money back. It seems that I can't really upgrade and it is pretty much useless on my setup.

Why can't you up-grade it? Arn't the DCS 2.0 up-grade kits available? If you are unable to do the up-grade yourself, there are many on this forum that can, and will, do the up-grade for you (for a nominal fee, I'm sure).

I asked a few times in this thread, but no answered if this was possible. If I can someone point me the right direction? Just need the cost of the upgrade and who I can ask here.

Just wondering also if it is worth the trouble and cost.

Thanks !

Chance, the upgrade kit is around $150, if you would prefer a Protosound 2.0, you would be better off taking the money for selling the loco and the $150 for the upgrade kit and buying another BL-2 with PS-2. In answer to your question, I would charge the BCR on the track, and then shut the power to the track off. Once the loco shuts down completely, turn the track power on just far enough to start the sounds, let it sit on the track for a couple seconds, then turn the power off, then on. The loco should start off in forward. Let us know how it works out. 

There can be a number of things wrong, but most are repairable.  The buzz sounds like a there might be an issue with the bottom board.

The top board can have a software issue, also repairable.

Normally the board should start up and you hear 2 dings and diesel sounds.  After that, pressing direction button with throttle about 1/3 to 1/2 and it should move. If not, if could be locked.

Do a reset per the instructions, or it needs to be reset by a tech.

It can be upgraded to PS-2 or PS-32 when the diesel kits become available in June 2015.  G

One more time: the MTH web site page for this engine indicates that it pre-dates PS1.

Barry,

Sorry I am not an expert in trains, but when you say it pre-dates PS1, what does that mean? Does it mean there is no way I can upgrade this to anything that will work with my DCS? If so, I guess it's best I get my money back. 

I finally got the train to move, but to switch connections from my TIU and back to my Z1000, i don't think it is worth the hassle.

Pretty much any loco with flywheel-equipped motors can have PS2 or PS3 electronics installed in it--the loco doesn't even have to be a MTH model. You don't always come out ahead dollar-wise by doing it (hence the suggestions by some to return/sell and replace it with a newer version already containing PS2 or PS3 electronics), but it can still be done--the only electrical components re-used will be the motors and possibly some of the lights. Everything else is included in the upgrade kit aside from the sounds particular to your loco, which can be downloaded and installed via an installer program running on your computer while its connected to your TIU.

---PCJ

Barry,  1996 doesn't predate ProtoSounds.  The MTH web site states "Proto".

Since he has a battery inside, it should be PS-1.

Chance, please read my post again.  You will be given a lot of different advice,

Read any PS-1 instruction manual and it will give you the basics.  The sounds it makes when you power it up and when you first try to get it going are diagnostic tools.

This engine can be fixed and/or it can be upgraded.  G

I appreciate all the help here as always !!

I think my plan now is to return it back to the seller minus the shipping fees. i think in the long run, to replace/upgrade this train will be too much for me to handle as a newbie as well cost wise, i might as well get something else.

Thank you all again. Once I get settle in with my trains and track, I will post my setup. I still need more advice on electrical stuff. I think my current setup needs more current and unsure how to tap more power and parts needs to do this. Thank you all for the help !!

George,

1996 doesn't predate ProtoSounds.  The MTH web site states "Proto".

Where did you see "Proto"?

From the web page:

Product Description: Cab Nos. 80, 81, 83 Features: Directional Headlights, Lighted Cab with Figure, Twin Flywheel Can Motors.

Product Name:BL-2 Diesel Engine - With Proto.

Barry,  First line of the link catalog link you posted says Product Name: BL-2 diesel engine - with Proto

If there was originally a green battery in it, someone has replaced it recently. And it won't run well with a Z-1000. Probably like you said if it is not what you want your best option is return it.

Chuck,

Yes, there was a green battery attached as well as an extra green battery. From looks at it, the train was pretty much new. But, who knows, it could have been cleaned up to look new.

Thanks

Guys,

The description doesn't say "Proto", the manual says PS2 and there's a PS2 sound file listed, as well.

Everything is boilerplate except the description.

We have nothing that definitively states that this is an original Protosounds engine.

Barry, you are confusing me....If there is a battery in the engine made in 1996 it has got to be protosounds one. You are one of the top Guru's of MTH products, why are you not convinced it is a protosound one?

Looks at the parts under support, It's a proto-1,  $ 60 for bottom board & $100 for top.

However right at the bottom it also shows a proto-2 board with sound file. What's up??

Most of us old guys have an old lionel transformer kicking around someplace. KW 1033 ZW etc that puts out a pure sine wave, The modern transformer are a little different. Having said that your engine was designed to run on the older type transformer, There may be  be nothing wrong with it. 

The MTH Z-1000 should operate the engine with no problem conventionally. 

It is a PS-1 engine.  MTH also made the engine with just the horn, without PS-1 (20-2129-0) and I don't think it would have had a battery installed.  PS-1 engines were known to scramble the electronics if one tried to operate the engine without the battery being fully charged. 

I had an MTH GP30 (Model # on the box, MT2067LP or on the website, 20-2067-1) that had the early PS-1 (DCRU Electronic Reverse Unit with Lockout by QSI) boards that would not run.  I took it to Eastside Trains and the repair person replaced the board(s) with good used ones.  The engine sounds were not what was supposed to be in it, but at least it ran.  I had GGG do a conversion to PS-2 here a year or two ago. 

I wasn't able to locate the original manual for the GP30 but do have one for a later model GP38-2 with PS-1 which does list the Z-4000 as an approved transformer.  The Z-1000 is not listed.  I could run the GP38-2 without much of any problems using the Z-1000.  It would not run at all using the Lionel CW-80. 

Larry

In my experience, using a Z-1000 with an early Protosounds/QSI engine results in the loco having difficulty operating correctly. The early PS locos with QSI boards almost always require a Z-4000 or a postwar transformer to run without odd behavior. A lighted car sometimes helps, but not always. That being said, I would charge one of the green batteries and pull the BCR, that way you don't have to raise the voltage on startup above the minimum needed to start the sounds. 

Chuck and Luke makes a good point for early PS-1, so try a Post war transformer, but if you want command anyway not sure why you would by PS-1 unless you planned ot upgrade.

Barry,  I still stand on 1995/96 having PS-1 available.  I have worked one many -LP that had factory PS-1.

I have also seen parts diagrams, where they put the PS-2 diagram in place with a note. So nothing strange there either.

Having said that MTH also sold QSI upgrades.  So a physical check can tell which system.  If a 2 board stack with speaker and battery, it is MTH PS-1.

If a 3 board stack with speaker and battery it is QSI system.  Similar and operates the same, though QSI had more features available than MTH system.   G

Chance, I would consider having the engine converted to PS-2 or PS-3 if available.   Especially if you really like the engine.  Talk to GGG.

Larry

I decided to send it back to the seller. I just didn't think it was worth the hassle of upgrading. I think in the long rung of buying the parts and having someone upgrade the train, it would have cost me more than to buy something new. I picked it up thinking it was a great deal and thought it would work with my setup.

Just remember if you have a DCS system you'll want to have at least PS-2 engines.  You can still run those PS-1 engines with DCS just not at the same time as the PS-2 engines.  I bought an MTH F59PHI engine through the bay that, according to the MTH website, was a PS-2, but what I got was actually a PS-1 engine.  Must have  been produced right around the transition period.  I will probably sell it since I don't have the correct passenger cars to go with it. 

Larry

You can run PS-1 / conventional locos with DCS at the same time as PS-2 or PS-3 locos if you have separate main lines, just can't run them on the same main line. Using the varibal voltage outputs on the TIU you can set the voltage required for each main line.