Picked up a 4 car set in Terra Cotta that have MTH plates on them, not Ives. Trying to date them. When did MTH switch to using the Ives name?
Steve
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Probably after they made the deal with Lionel to use the name. Lionel bought the Ives name. So these cars could be Lionel Corporation Tinplate.
RoyBoy posted:Probably after they made the deal with Lionel to use the name. Lionel bought the Ives name. So these cars could be Lionel Corporation Tinplate.
Roy
These are early brown box cars, so probably in the 90's. I think the Ives name has nothing to do with the deal with Lionel. Lionel let the copyright on the name lapse and MTH grabbed it.
Steve
Steve, my terra cotta MTH set with IVES plates is 10-1175 which dates from 2001. The MTH website shows set 10-1180 from the same date 2001 which has MTH plates on it; but it is the red & maroon set which should have had Lionel, not Ives plates: so in 2001, MTH was apparently comfortable using the Ives plates but not the Lionel plates.
I know that MTH now owns the Ives name. MTH makes Lionel and Flyer trains under license from Lionel LLC, but the Ives name MTH owns outright. My understanding was that this came about as part of the settlement of the big lawsuit, but I have no documentation.
I believe that MTH used Ives and Lionel plates early on (brown box period - really a continuation of the Williams Reproductions use of Ives and Lionel plates), then got a cease and desist from Lionel and used MTH plates while it was contested for a few years. Then it got complicated when MTH counter-sued with another law suit, for industrial espionage. When the law suits were settled, MTH got the Ives name outright and signed a license agreement with Lionel to produce Lionel tinplate, so MTH went back to using Ives and Lionel plates. Don't know the date of that.
MTH Ives stuff is MTH Tinplate Traditions, not Lionel Corp. Tinplate.
david
