looks like its hard to get in the corners with the pen. But over all, it's a step up from the box
Originally Posted by MCD4x4:
looks like its hard to get in the corners with the pen. But over all, it's a step up from the box
Yeah, I think it is too. I was reluctant too do this, but after a few windows it isn't too hard to do. You just need real steady hands (which I don't have) and lots of patience. I cheat by using my left hand to steady my right hand. I also rest my wrists on the car to get my hands as steady as I can. About one car side a day is about all my eyes can take.
I spent more time re-working what I painted on the car, did more cleaning up and the results I believe are much better. I found out through trial and error that I could paint into the corners with the paint pen by adding more pressure. I had to do more clean up after, but the results were worth it.
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I just added passenger figures to the cars and what I found was something I just had to mention to anyone opening up these cars. Be really really careful of the wires inside the car as they come so close to the mounting screw holes and it is so easy to damage the wires when tightening the screws back up.
Fabulous work-- any of those mp54 for sale?
I think JUSTRAINS has 1 set in stock. I bought all the others.
Beautiful SIRT!
We have the MU sets in stock,
http://nassauhobby.com/Long-Is...t-w-Proto-Sound-3.0/
sameday shipping
Steve
very nice job thanks for sharing. I cant remember if the trailers had end doors or just vestibule doors. I knoww the Steam coaches did not have the end doors.
I was going to remove all the doors but decided to move on. Maybe one day when I have more time, I will do the modification.
Trailers didn't have doors but oh well, it's an MTH.
I can run it between the electrics as an option. Basically only the end cars had headlamps, the middle cars didn't when running along 3rd rail branches.
Hello Steve P (SIRT)
Re: your comment re: LIRR Headlamps - INCORRECT - or perhaps just your writing style brevity.
" ALL " LIRR MP-54 and other LIRR MU Motor Car classes, having motorman controls within them, in fact, had end-of-roof headlamp fixtures located on BOTH ENDS of those motor cars. Just as their parent Penny (PRR) MP-54 motor cars also had.
There were BLIND Motors (no controls, no headlight, and end porthole windows generally painted over (I "think" they were MP54-A1 class) - always placed mid-train.
-- There were "T-54" Classes of unpowered "electric trailers" - having electric heating and 3rd rail shoes to pickup and transfer MU Control current to adjacent motor cars
-- As opposed to the locomotive hauled "P-54" identical trailer bodies, but having no 3rd rail shoes and having loco-provided STEAM for heating...as used on both LIRR and PRR locomotive hauled consists.
However, it was ONLY the front and rear cars of a, any LIRR
consist, at the location where the motorman was at such time operating the consist, that had the Roof Headlight LIGHTED at the head, or motorman-operating end, of the consist. All the other roof mounted headlamps in the entire coupled consist were in switched-off position. (Perhaps that IS what you attempted, rather unclearly, to imply, as such)
Electric Trailer T-54 cars of course, did not have roof headlamps (except if any were operated as modified with such and converted to "control" trailers with motorman controls added)
Joe F
Most LIRR electric consists were often seen with an MP-54 at one end and an MPB-54 on the other end similar to the marketed MTH set.
MP54A, Ac, AT, numbers 1402-1420, 1452-1676 (non- round roof) were selected to run in between did not contain head lamps as seen in many historical photos. Some of these were electric coach cars with painted over portholes containing grey ends.
One could make the MTH cars into a P54 with some modifications to the doors if they wanted a non-electric coach which I think that’s what the MTH cars represent to begin with lacking the 3rd rail shoe truck features?
As per freight line operating rules, end cars had to have headlamps. It didn’t matter for cars located in between. Often, they were a combination of anything even MP- 72’s if needed.
Weather they contained motorman capabilities is really irrelevant especially since the details on the MTH cars are missing or incorrect anyway.
I believe you did fail to point out an obvious detail regarding the short window section on the MPB-54 car.
Another forum member managed to catch that one.
These cars also contained three kinds of door glass which wasn’t pointed out as well along with the needed stirrup steps in which I incorporated into the MPB-54 car along with round door glass on the Lionel versions.
The MTH set as it stands is lacking many of the details as you pointed out. Its’ not specific enough to worry about at this point since we can’t fix the additional issues.
I commend your vast knowledge of NY area items but perhaps all your concerns should have been conveyed to MTH in years past in order for them to get it right.
I don’t claim by any means to be a R.R. expert so I often rely on what I like and what I’ve seen in the historical photo books.
Since many NY area items are specific in detail, MFG’s are not going to spend money on (re-tooling) an existing cookie cutter item.
It’s too bad some of us had to add additional hours to make the cosmetic appearance look closer to the original after spending several hundred dollars. Aside from lacking specific details, MTH at least could have simply painted the window frames silver.
We will also have similar issues on the next LIRR item as well. MTH and Atlas O Trainman LIRR bay window cabooses are due out soon. They most likely won’t be short, non B/W custom specific to the LIRR. I just hope they choose to do the grey block letters this time.
So as I’ve said before, no matter how accurate you want to be, most of us are still operating over a middle rail!
Peace brother -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU8TbLza3qY&feature=player_embedded
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Hello Steve P - SIRT
As I stated much earlier, I only was involved with the car bodies of ONLY the NYC Subway Sets PASSENGER cars as far as my tech consulting work since 1999 with MTH. I had no involvement with their (NY genre) trolleys, nor any of the NY area genre Commuter or mainline rail passenger car nor locomotive products. Therefore, I had no input nor contact with MTH on the LIRR cars production as in subject of this thread.
On the Subway sets, I provided all the totally relevant info needed to make reasonably (for operation on 3 rail track and semi-tinplate radius curves) near fully scale accurate body shells and scale appearing interiors, and of course, signage and paint schemes. And details accurate as near feasible and possible within a certain mass-produced product-price-range (as opposed previously to single O Scale car brass much higher prices averaging back then about $350+ for just ONE car body, unpowered and unfinished with no interior details either !)
MTH Subway Truck side frames were fully accurate to prototype designs, but because of their use with oversized wheel sets and the truck "metal heavy sub-block" assemblies, these side frames had to be somewhat a bit oversized to fit upon and disguise same. I had no input nor control over that form of "required modifications" for 3 rail.
Also, the 5% or approx. minor oversize dimensions of the car bodies (mainly height and width on the IRT type bodies) - from pure 1:48 true O Scale, was due the need to have room for "false seating" interiors, curtain walls and the twin motors and electronics (circuit board and etc) in the "powered" cars. Thus the trailing (unpowered) cars followed the same body shell sizes used for the Powered Cars. I had no control over that either.
I provided ALL the accurate and scale data and plans for the MTH's first R-42 cars, and look how they ended up turning out (60 foot cars done as 51 foot "IRT sized" cars (heh) back in 1999 ! From that initial set, I would agree that MTH turned around about 100% better following that first botched, "truncated" set, for all the following various NY Subway sets. For that, and my involvement to keep it focused that way, I am quite grateful to MTH. Without MTH, what would you 3-railers have at ALL in ANY subway sets for the past 15 years !!?? And likewise, there would be NO OGR forum "subways"[ here at this website either - as was originally the case here !!
For example, the 2 rail O-Scale "scale" modeler guys of my genre have always hand built scale working very detailed model replicas of our desired subway and elevated cars, and or purchased the very rare small production runs of quite expensive O-Scale "bare-brass" models of the rare few car types (only 2 for NY Subways) that were produced, and finished them up and powered them. And /or also finished up bare epoxy resin O Scale body shells of EL Gate cars from Q Car Company....those cars now decades long out of production
For example, my O Scale NY EL and Trolley fully scratch-built layout and its then rolling stock ran and existed 15 years before MTH ever did any subway sets.
Re: the MTH LIRR Cars -- yes - there were consists that consisted of some MP54-A1 BLIND Motor Cars and T-54 electric trailer cars - both types had no roof headlights - mixed in with a majority of headlight-equipped MP-54 Motor Cars in an 8 to 10 car consist.
As far as the MTH Combine-Baggage car, I didn't get one, so I didn't pay any attention to it at all. I only got a 2-car coach MP-54 Add on Set.
Regards - Joe F
SIRT, Correct me if my memories are wrong but I do seem to remember the number of the coach in red on the first window on the left side of each car. Also, your MP54 is crying out for a brass whistle over the porthole window. Please take care of that so I can sleep at night.
Window numbers were a carry over from the older scheme cars with light roofs.
I would be more concerned about working red marker lights, correct window placement on the mail car, a wiper and the motor-man’s bump-out more than anything else. They do contain toilet vents, LOL!
At this point, I really don’t give a crap.
It’s a cookie cutter MTH product, what more can I say?
All I wanted was silver window frames in which they couldn't even do a simple task like that!
Just makes some of us less likely to buy an MTH product in the future and less sales for some on what they gave us.(Didn't match the catalog photo)
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P.S - Really don't need the two grab irons on the ends either...
A few years back I purchased a brass O gauge factory painted LIRR MP54 combine and it too came up a handful of windows short on each side. I believe it was made by Sunset 3rd Rail. I went back and forth via e-mail with one of the company's higher-ups expressing my displeasure for this was, brass, you know. The fella was very kind but insisted they had it right and even showed me the blueprints they used. Unfortunately those were pure Pennsylvania and I guess thay assumed both roads were the same. I remember there even being some sort of a vent down below some of the windows that also didn't look like it belonged.
I have done all the work I wanted to do on my set and I am ready to just run and enjoy it. Among the work I did was:
1) Silver window frames added to all cars
2) Inside medium gray seating and passengers added (100+ seated passengers)
3) Stirrup steps added to baggage car
4) Motorman placed in baggage car
5) Bump-out and wiper
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I'm surprised that no one has comments (until now) that on the unpowered combines MTH put the working headlight on the coach end instead of the baggage end of the car. While for dome it wouldn't be difficult to correct the mistake, the fact is that MTH did this at all. While I bet that someone could find a photo of the combine running coach end first, it was probably not a common occurrence.
Also, its not just the LIRR combines that MTH did this on, they also did this on the Pennsy ones as well.
Stuart
Hello Stuart --
I have enclosed THREE photos of LIRR MP54 MU Motor COMBINE cars - note that the LIRR MP54 Motor Combine cars DO in fact, have HEADLIGHTS (and operating controls) at BOTH ends. And so did the PENNSY MP54 Motor MU Combine Cars !
Also, it was not uncommon to run a Combine car in a passenger consist with the Passenger section facing forward at the head of a train - as my photo shows. And I also recall seeing same in operation, as I also well recall the LIRR MP54 cars and rode them in the late 1950's thru late 1960's, and took photos of them.
MTH's "unpowered" Pennsy and LIRR MP54 MU Combines are actually "dummy motor" cars, the model is unpowered but actually represents a real powered MP54 Motor car body style.
It would NOT be proper for MTH (or LIONEL) to put ANY headlights on any NON-ELECTRIC trailer class P54 Steam or Diesel hauled Coaches, Combines and Baggage Car, of course.
Are you stating that the headlight housing on the MTH Combine MP54 MU Cars (PRR & LIRR) actually is on both ends of the roofs of those modeled combine cars, but only lights up at ONE END ?
Regards - Joe F
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for the photos.
Are you stating that the headlight housing on the MTH Combine MP54 MU Cars (PRR & LIRR) actually is on both ends of the roofs of those modeled combine cars, but only lights up at ONE END ?
Yes, only the headlight at the coach end is lit. The headlight at the combine end has no bulb. If you open the car you could run leads to the other headlight housing to light it. Why MTH didn't do this is a mystery.
Stuart
Hello Stuart !
Well, I don't know what is going on at MTH with all these mistakes and errors on those LIRR Cars. But you should see what their Catalog displayed SEPTA Painted ex-PRR MP-54 car bodies came out like. I got a 2 car set - arrived Saturday morning - and opened them in front of 7 guys from the L.I. Traction Society who came down from LI to S.E. Penna., and visited me at my home & layout for all day of Sat. May 24th. We were ALL shocked !
The catalog page "broadside view only" images show ex-PENNSY MP-54's with their Clerestory Roofs painted in the SEPTA White Scheme with blue and red stripe and trim and LOGOS. HOWEVER, the body produced is a composite hybrid of ----
(1) The accurate body sides and normal Clerestory roof of an ex-Pennsy MP-54 MU Car
(2) The INCORRECT rectangular windows end-faces of an ERIE LACKAWANNA MU Motor Car front face and its 2-piece split storm door window (instead of the MP-54 Port Hole trademark round end windows and single pane storm door window)
(3) The 9100 series NUMBERING of ex-READING RAILROAD longer body ARCHED ROOF MU Commuter Motor Cars -(which ALSO were painted in the same SEPTA Paint scheme decades ago)- were applied to these MTH MP-54 "hybrid" bodies, INSTEAD of the proper 400 series numbers for the SEPTA PAINTED MP-54 Class ex-Pennsy MU Motor Cars !
(4) The paint scheme on these MTH "hybrid-franekstein" models is accurate, however.
So you have accurate Pennsy MP-54 Body sides and Clerestory Roof, BUT incorrect ends of Erie-Lackawanna MU Cars and the numbering (9100) series of the ARCH ROOF Reading Railroad longer MU Commuter Cars !!.
WNY MTH did this when they already long have previous production runs using their PRR MP-54 Body shell tool- dies and molds - and could have simply produced the accurate PENNSY MP-54 CAR BODY SHELL in the SEPTA PAINT scheme with the proper 400 series numbers for Pennsy MP-54 cars --- for a FULLY ACCURATE MODEL -- I DON'T KNOW !
Regards - Joe F
Hello again STUART and all
The FIRST photo of a real ex-PRR MP-54 is what MTH could have and should have produced for a real ex-PRR MP-54 as displayed in the SEPTA Paint scheme and PROPER carbody 400 series numbering !
The SECOND photo is the ARCHED Roof READING Railroad Commuter MU Car style of the Reading Co. 9100 series that for "some unknown reason", influenced MTH to change the MP-54 car body shell end face "look" to appear as! And note the differences in the end of car side windows wider spacing just past the side platform doors. These Reading cars were also about 6 feet longer than MP-54 Cars !!
The THIRD photo, again, is WHAT should have been the end result MTH Model using an MP-54 Pennsy Body.
The FOURTH & FIFTH photos show what MTH actually produced - with its distinct ERIE LACKAWANNA MU Cars front end faces and storm door split-window, and as thus is a totally incorrect and non-existing body style model for both ex-PENNSY and ex-READING railroads MU Commuter cars !
Note that CON COR in HO Scale got both their LIRR and Pennsy and SEPTA, variously painted, MP-54 class MU Cars dead on correct, accurate. On the LIRR cars even to the proper window frame colors (silver) and 3rd Rail shoes installed on all their LIRR MP-54 cars. Con Cor even got the windows on their HO scale LIRR COMBINES correct to meet up to the combine-baggage door opening!
Regards - Joe F
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I'd love to see those con cor cars in o gauge with lionel legacy sounds and control-- guess I'm just dreamin
Mr. Frank:
I'm sorry to read of your situation regarding the MTH SEPTA cars. That truly is frustrating.
As a participant in several different scales, I recently purchased a three car set of the Con-Cor HO MP54s decorated for Penn Central. You are indeed correct in your assessment of the Con-Cor MP54s. They are just about the most exquisite and accurate models I've ever seen in any scale. Con-Cor really got them right.
Bob
The Ho Con Cor MP54's are beautiful, but unfortunately over priced. A non-powered car lists for $119.98, while the powered car is $229.98 (without DCC, let alone sound).
Stuart
The Ho Con Cor MP54's are beautiful, but unfortunately over priced. A non-powered car lists for $119.98, while the powered car is $229.98 (without DCC, let alone sound).
Stuart
BTW Stuart, we just got those long awaited Rapido modern MTA LIRR passenger cars today. :-)
SIRT:
BEAUTIFUL MU's! 
Brings back memories of Jamaica Station, Rockaway, Penn Station, Garden City, Hempstead, Flatbush Ave., & Atlantic Ave. (1942-1962)!
Yes, and open windows to let the breeze in......
DR
