N&W CF Caboose

That's the high end, not the high the end versions! Sorry.

Well, because it is a N&W specific caboose. Just can't paint them up for a variety of Railroads. Since Weaver has already done them, I would love to see a rerun. The other contender would be 3rd Rail.

Scott has done a great job with the K3, K2A, Y6a/b, M, & TE-1. I would have bought a caboose to go along with each of these engines. Are you listening, SCOTT? You are leaving money on the table!   Steamers ran with a caboose. Sell a new steamer, sell a new caboose. Just like selling a hamburger with french fries.

Gilly

I had started a similar thread on the 3-Rail forum on Sept. 14th.

N&W Steam Era Cabins

Be assured if 3rd-Rail would make any they will not be cheap, but I would be in for at least one CF and one CG.

The bottom-line for the "manufacturers" is the COST benefit.  I have contacted the 5-major O-gauge makers.  Got responses from four.  Will wait one more week to see if fifth replays before updating thread.

Ron

Road specific makes sense.

Both Lionel & MTH produced N&W water tenders which, if I'm not mistaken, are specific to the N&W. Would anyone buy a PRR porthole caboose lettered for the N&W? Probably not many, although I have seen a picture of one, not sure if it's prototypical though. I know, there are at least a variety of paint schemes for the porthole, to justify the cost, but it still is unique to the PRR. Kohs did manage to produce 5 unique versions of the CF caboose to compliment there Y6B as well as 6 CG versions, and they are works of art.

I think a market would exist for a reasonably priced CF caboose. Most of us are willing to spend $80+ on a smoking Lionel caboose. I'd pay $120 for an accurate plastic high rail CF caboose. I'm sure we all agree, it would look a lot better being shoved on the end of a long coal drag by a Y6B, rather than what most of us have as a substitute.

At $120.00 a copy it would 400 to 600 units sold JUST to pay for the new tooling.  So probably looking at 800 to 1200 units to be profitable.  When you consider the N&W CF can/would be painted and lettered for four different eras it should be a profitable venture. 

As I stated above in a week or so I will update my original thread on the replies received.

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks for jumping in. I'm sure that if we look deeper, there are other roads that had a caboose or two unique to themselves that the major manufacturers have produced. Another example is the B&O I-12 wagontops. Lionel produced multiple versions of those. Once again there are a variety of versions, but all unique to the B&O and I'll admit, a personal favorite.

I think, since Lionel is producing Legacy versions of the Y6B & Y3 for 2015, they couldn't miss with this. I hope that we get more responses in the next few days, and maybe the manufactures will listen, it's long overdue.

Joe

Hi Gilly,

Not to overlook your response. A burger and french fries is a no brainer. McDonalds has made BILLIONS with that!

Thanks for your reply,

Joe

But yet they don't hesitate about taking something made for only the PRR, NYC, ATSF, or UP and slap paint on it for RRs that never owned them.

You're right though and it's a shame, I just don't see how any manufacturer can ignore the N&W in the way they do, especially when there's so much data available from the N&W historical society.

I agree. The various builders that cater to the 3-Rail market will all produce N&W specific steam locomotives, but totally ignore the N&W specific cabooses. Go figure.

There were VGN cabs that are very much the same, if not identical on the outside. The interiors were a bit different though.

Hot Water this actually is no mystery at all.  It is "Economics 101."  If I recall correctly you once worked for EMD.  When they sold an engine say for $100K what was their profit?  What percentage of the 100K was profit?

For discussion purposes let's say our toy train makers have a profit of 20% of MSRP per unit sold.

SO @ 20%:

Unit Price          Unit Profit          Number of sales to = highest profit

$1800,00 eng          $360.00          1

$1200.00 eng          $240.00          1 1/2

$120.00  cab          $24.00          15 (and 10 vs $1200.00)

They would have to sell 1500 cabs for every 100, $1800 engines or 1000 cabs for every 100, #1200.00 engines to realize same profit.  Or put another way every one buying a $1800.00 engine needs to buy 15 cabs, etc..

Ron

Joe, if you have gone back to the original thread linked and read my Sept. 19 post you see by the first "makers" response they the toy train makers do not have warm fuzzy feelings that N&W stuff sells other than engines and passengers cars.

This is similar to their outlook on Southern stuff "it does not sell"  meaning they don't see a big enough market to make return on their investment.

Just Economics.

When I update original thread with other responses you will see the similar same theme.

Ron

Just thought I'd ask.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I did check out the original thread. I guess I missed it first time around. I do have a Quality Craft kit on the work bench. Looks like I'll keep at it and I think I will proceed as Joe Giannovario had recommended, using the plastic Evergreen siding. 

Joe

There's one solution, reruns, even if only on pre-orders. They must have the dies still? So most the outlay is already there. Reruns would be further profit on the outlay. We just need to let them know we would buy them, and there would be more that are unaware probable so also. I would go for 2 maybe even 3.

Gee whiz! Why not? There are plenty of caboose styles made out there that are lettered for RR's that never had them. Quit selling the same ol' same ol' and make a nice N&W CF or CG cab and letter it also for any road that sells. 

quote:

They must have the dies still?

Josef, the Weaver N&W cabs were brass.

the toy train makers do not have warm fuzzy feelings that N&W stuff sells other than engines and passengers cars.

And where do they get this "warm fuzzy feeling" from?  Do they get it from a crystal ball, do they get it from asking a bunch of people from Pennsylvania or California, do they get it by asking certain forum members, or do they actually ask folks who like to collect N&W?

I'd truly like to know what and where they get this "input"

Probably since both Lionel and MTH are "eastern companies", thus ANYTHING and EVERYTHING PRR or NYC sells, sells, and SELLS! But, I still can't understand either why correct scale N&W/Virginian cabooses couldn't be produced and then painted in "fantasy" schemes for a host of other railroads, since the vast majority of the "toy train" buyers wouldn't know anyway.

I think some here assume that manufacturers are more rational than they are.

Manufacturers have their favored roads too.  You don't hear them say "favored road doesn't sell" when a model from one of those roads flops.  At least N&w gets steam locos and passenger cars.  Other roads are not that lucky.

One thing that might help expand selection is if we got away from the idea of the caboose being just another freight car with lights when it comes to pricing.

Yes the VGN  C-10 Cabs were identical to the N&W class C2 Cabs since they were all built by the St. Louis Car Company in mid-1949.  The C-10s became N&W C30s in 1959 with the merger.  The VGN C-10As became N&W class C30A.  They were built identical to the C-10s by the Virginian Shops at Princeton, WV in 57,58, and 59.  All coming to the N&W in the 59 merger.

But none of the metal Cabs have the character of the wooden CFs.

Ron

Maybe someone might consider inquiring whether Mullet River would be interested in producing a kit.  I know Glen is pre-occupied with other activities, but if enough interest were expressed, who knows....