need help with transformer(s)

Lionel lionchief engines run on dc or ac power.  So you can use your mth transformer to run both engines.  Also, you can get a dcs commander remote for about $20.  With that, you could run both engines with remotes.

You will need a MTH 50-1033 remote commander set for the MTH engine( it is about 60 bucks, it will get you down the road), you can splice the power through a terminal piece, or use a pair of adapters rail from MTH real trax to Lionel fas-track. The 36 watt lionel power supply is fine for just the Lionchief engine. You would probably be better off with a Z-1000, more power means less wear and tear on the transformer, and spare power for the switches. it the breaker through the the transformer you are fine, they do that when over loaded.

The LionChief can run on both AC & DC. The MTH engine AC only. You need an AC transformer to run both. You need the controller for Z transformers because they can output 20-22 volts, which is ok for MTH engines, but will damage Lionel engines. Lionel engines should be limited to 18 volts maximum.

What did you let the smoke out of? 

The smoke came out of the "brick" part of the transformer. I saw a bright light and the little breaker on the side tripped.  I reset the breaker but now the controller doesn't seem to do anything, the power light comes on, thats it.    Trying to keep up, I'm learning as we go.  One thing I noted, with the Lionel transformer, my remote switches never lighted "red" they just went dark when switched to the curve side.  When I plugged in the MTH transformer, the lighted red when on the curved side.  So who makes an AC transformer to power the trains yet limits the voltage to 18 so I don't damage the Lionel?  

If the MTH transformers put about 20 volts which is more than the 18 volts that Lionel likes, why the recommendation to keep using the Z-750 or Z-1000?  Just trying to understand.  Does the MTH 50-1033 remote only work on one locomotive?

Recommending the MTH transformer because MTH likes only AC and Lionel can work with AC or DC? How do I overcome the voltage issue then?

MJR Walnut Bottom posted:

The smoke came out of the "brick" part of the transformer. I saw a bright light and the little breaker on the side tripped.  I reset the breaker but now the controller doesn't seem to do anything, the power light comes on, thats it.    Trying to keep up, I'm learning as we go.  One thing I noted, with the Lionel transformer, my remote switches never lighted "red" they just went dark when switched to the curve side.  When I plugged in the MTH transformer, the lighted red when on the curved side.  So who makes an AC transformer to power the trains yet limits the voltage to 18 so I don't damage the Lionel?  

Ok, good. You didn't let the smoke out. Just a term. When you see smoke or let the smoke out of electronic devices, it is a bad thing.

Try unplugging the transformer brick. Sometimes the MTH transformer needs that to reset. The Z-750 will be ok, just keep the throttle a little distance away from full. Make sure the barrel jack from the brick is all the way in the controller. You do know that you need to move the throttle to get output from the track terminals. Manual attached.

You will need to get a digital multi-meter if you want to play with electric trains. any Harbor Freight one will do. Inexpensive. They work. Then you can measure the track voltage.

The small DC power pack that is included does not have enough power for more track or accessories beyond what's included in the set. That's why the switches didn't function properly. The second reason is that the Lionel switches need AC power. Put it back in the box.

MJR Walnut Bottom posted:

Recommending the MTH transformer because MTH likes only AC and Lionel can work with AC or DC? How do I overcome the voltage issue then?

No. The MTH engines need a particular type of AC power, pure sine wave. Some Lionel transformers output a chopped sine wave.  Just use the MTH Z-750 that you have.

You overcome the voltage issue by using the controller to set/limit the transformer output to the track at 18 volts with a meter, or 3/4 to 7/8 throttle without one.

Moonman posted:

MJR Walnut Bottom posted:

Recommending the MTH transformer because MTH likes only AC and Lionel can work with AC or DC? How do I overcome the voltage issue then?

No. The MTH engines need a particular type of AC power, pure sine wave. Some Lionel transformers output a chopped sine wave.  Just use the MTH Z-750 that you have.

You overcome the voltage issue by using the controller to set/limit the transformer output to the track at 18 volts with a meter, or 3/4 to 7/8 throttle without one.

So which MTH transformers are shark tooth or "pure" sine wave and how do we know. As to "pure", it's made up of  a bunch of sections of voltages all sandwiched together to resemble a sine wave.

cjack posted:

Moonman posted:

MJR Walnut Bottom posted:

Recommending the MTH transformer because MTH likes only AC and Lionel can work with AC or DC? How do I overcome the voltage issue then?

No. The MTH engines need a particular type of AC power, pure sine wave. Some Lionel transformers output a chopped sine wave.  Just use the MTH Z-750 that you have.

You overcome the voltage issue by using the controller to set/limit the transformer output to the track at 18 volts with a meter, or 3/4 to 7/8 throttle without one.

So which MTH transformers are shark tooth or "pure" sine wave and how do we know. As to "pure", it's made up of  a bunch of sections of voltages all sandwiched together to resemble a sine wave.

he's got a Z-750 and wants to run trains. The LionChief is remote controlled and the MTH may have to run conventionally until he gets the starter remote.

MTH has a list of transformers that are suited to their equipment.

No need to confuse him at this point.

Can you help with his Z-750 brick reset or why the controller may not be working?

I think that's all been asked and answered. I'll go start a thread on my question...

I think you should send your z-750 to be inspected, smoke is not good. It should not be in the 20 volt range out of the controller, the manual says 18 volts. It is not a ZW at 21 volts.

OK, the Z 1K and Z 750 are bricks with an output of 21 vac in one MTH manual I read. When you add the Z controller, the output becomes a shark tooth output. Apparently the new MTH engines are fine with this, not so the much earlier ones. The Lionel would be fine with that except Lionel says the max voltage that can be used is 19 VAC. The possible issue with the Z 750 is that the peak voltage even when you use a controller is still based on the 21 VAC and could be too much for the Lionel engine. So use of the Z controller may not be effective in satisfying the Lionel limit.

That's why I was asking the question about the Z transformers. As to what the happened to the Z transformer and why is still in question unless MJR unpluged the transformer and it did reset, but I have not seen his answer to that suggestion. Considering the voltage limit and the higher power requirement for two engines, the safest, capable transformer would be the Lionel CW 80 or even better the GW 180. I suspect the Z 750 would probably be ok since we are not really privy to what Lionel means by the 19 VAC limit (does peak matter or just RMS). If it were mine, I'd just get the GW180.

Thanks everyone one, I had the Z750 checked and fortunately it works, I was able to determine where about 18volts is on the throttle control and made a mark for reference.  Total volts was about 22.  Thanks everyone, I appreciate it.  Off to buy a meter this morning to test my track.  Thanks again.

Thanks for checking back. Enjoy the trains.

Purchased a digital meter this morning and hooked up the Z750 transformer.  I tested the track voltage and it was pretty consistent around the layout, dropped about 0.2 volts AC at the furthest distance.  Everything seems to be working now, I tested the Lionel and it seems to be working well along with the remote switches.  I should be ready for the MTH locomotive.  I think my culprit was a bad connection on the track when I first started.  Thanks again everyone, I'm sure I'll be back another time with another question.

Great. Thanks too for the update.

The meter can help you find those bad connections by using the Ohms mode for continuity testing without the transformer on. That will verify that the physical connections are good.

You are all set now.

Have fun!

One simple point, and it may be silly to point this out, but make sure that you only use one transformer at a time.  Do not connect both the Lionel and the MTH at the same time.  In your case, the MTH transformer will run both of your trains. 

MJR Walnut Bottom posted:

Does the MTH 50-1033 remote only work on one locomotive?

The Remote Commander can only run one MTH locomotive at a time. Note that it must be as shipped from the factory. If someone has added it to a DCS system with a TIU, then it won't work until it has been subjected to a "factory rest" on a TIU equipped track.

MJR Walnut Bottom posted:

I have a Lionel Patriot ready to run set; it's a Lion Chief remote control that came with its own plug in power supply...

I bought an MTH Imperial locomotive 30-20361-1 to run on the same layout and need a way to power and control it...

I purchased a used MTH Z-750 controller and transformer for that purpose...

What do I need to run both the Lionel with its own remote and power / control the MTH on the same layout?  I'm on a budget before you suggest the MTH DCS.

When you say run both, do you mean at the same time with both engines on the track?  I realize you don't have the MTH engine yet, but is the intent to control the MTH engine using the Z-750 controller?  By control I mean change speed, change direction, blow horn, release coupler, etc. using the Z-750 controller's knob/buttons?

Or, as suggested earlier, have you also purchased a MTH Remote Commander?