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Not many. K-Line's were pretty generic and are extremely expensive in the secondary market. MTH released two sets. The first, with tbe black trucks is correct color-wise, but the consist is pretty generic. Ignore the full dome car as CNW didn't get one until they were out of the passenger business. They got it from the Milwaukee Road and added it to the business train which has green on the skirting and silver trucks (matching MTH's second CNW streamline passenger set). I have that second set with the full dome dome and run it as a business train. Your bet shot would be something custom like OK Engines, but those are in kit form and you have to build, paint, and decal them.

 

I've been hoping 3rd Rail or Atlas will release an appropriate streamlined set to go with my F7's. Unfortunately I missed out on a set of Heavyweights to go with my H1 Northern, but I figure something will show up eventually.

Last edited by AGHRMatt

Lionel Legacy C&NW F7's came out with "Zito" yellow. Nobody made "Zito" yellow on passenger cars to go with it. Lionel stuck with good number of unsold and discount the price. If Lionel used correct "Traditional" yellow, it would sold lots. MTH did use correct paint for "Traditional" yellow on F units for commuter train. Those Lionel Legacy F7 units paint scheme is for C&NW's business train. Matt is correct about business train 's trucks wear silver.

 

Last edited by CGWforever
Originally Posted by CGWforever:

Lionel Legacy C&NW F7's came out with "Zito" yellow. Nobody made "Zito" yellow on passenger cars to go with it. Lionel stuck with good number of unsold and discount the price. If Lionel used correct "Traditional" yellow, it would sold lots. MTH did use correct paint for "Traditional" yellow on F units for commuter train. Those Lionel Legacy F7 units paint scheme is for C&NW's business train. Matt is correct about business train 's trucks wear silver.

 

From the looks of the Legacy Engine they were based on the restored F7 at IRM

 

If you notice the engine is slightly brighter then the Gallery cars

 

 

 

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1) I have both Lionel F units from last/this year, and MTH from a few years ago, plus the MTH bi-levels and the K-line bi-levels.  The "zito" yellow in the picture above doesn't do justice to how "off" the Lionel C&NW F7 yellow is from the k-line and MTH passenger cars.  I agree Lionel blew it and would have sold a ton more if it had come close to matching the traditional yellow.  I also understand it's a valid C&NW color, but I just hate it and it doesn't match what was in the catalog.  I've checked into getting them re-painted, but it's more than I wanted to invest right now.

2) Loved the price I paid for the Lionel F7's at York, but if I had seen them on display, I would have passed, because of how off the yellow looked when compared to the K-line and MTH bi-levels.  It looks like "Easter" pastel yellow next to them.

3) You must check the traction tires on these.  I just took them out of the box for the first time last night, tried to run them, and they were terribly jerky.  Found Forum info here that explained the traction tires are too thick and rub against the trucks/brakes and switch to MTH DE-18's.  EXACTLY the issue I had, and obvious after looking at the traction tires which were now worn/torn after about 20 feet of trying to run.  THANKS to the OGRR Forum here for advice.  Luckily I had 4 spare DE-18's on-hand.  Much smoother.  I blows my mind that Lionel wouldn't see this, check this, fix this, etc.  

4) The k-line and MTH look commuter cars look close when not next to each other, but next to each other, there is a difference.  Both k-line and MTH are very hard to find and expensive on the aftermarket IMO.

5) The Lionel F7's were my first Lionel Legacy engine purchase.  After having run them with a new CAB-2, I'm just neutral.  The "bad" color and fact I had to change traction tires out-of-the-box left me wanting more.  I "own" the color issue.  Shame on me for buying sight-unseen.  I looked at the catalog depiction and it looked like the right yellow to me.  I sent a nice note to Lionel questioning why the difference in the catalog (it didn't look "Easter" yellow in the catalog) and got a nice "yes, you are right, the produced color doesn't match the catalog depiction, but it doesn't have to because we have this disclaimer that says it doesn't...."  Shame on me.  Someday, a certain forum member that has mad C&NW painting skills will come out of seclusion and re-enter the world of painting and I'll go from neutral to happy.... Jeff???

 

The other "Zito" yellow that CGWforever posted is very close to the Lionel - Easter pastel yellow....probably accurate, but just not the color I was looking for...

Last edited by VADarthDad

There is a cat, at the Chicago  2rail show Heavy into CNW with an assortment of prototypical passenger cars, He was mentioned once on this forum some time back. I was interested because he was talking about releasing a custom prototypical blunt end casting that I could have used for my Illusive blunt end PRR observation. Have been unable to locate. This year in Chicago I'll be sure to get his contact info. He had really nice looking CNW cars too.

Originally Posted by CGWforever:

       
Lionel Legacy C&NW F7's came out with "Zito" yellow. Nobody made "Zito" yellow on passenger cars to go with it. Lionel stuck with good number of unsold and discount the price. If Lionel used correct "Traditional" yellow, it would sold lots. MTH did use correct paint for "Traditional" yellow on F units for commuter train. Those Lionel Legacy F7 units paint scheme is for C&NW's business train. Matt is correct about business train 's trucks wear silver.


       


Was hesitant to preorder with Lionel's history of color mis selections, and thankfully this set turned out to be one of them our local.shop ordered for stock. Think they still have them on the shelf. Would have sold a ton in correct colors.

Still a nice Loco for those not interested in CNW passenger service. Jeff, get a late model caboose and pretend they are hauling freight on test runs.
Last edited by Lima
Originally Posted by CGWforever:

Difference between two yellows: Left is Zito. Right is Traditional Yellow like one at IRM.

Great photo; it's PERFECT for this discussion.  You nailed it!

 

If you want the C&NW as a signature passenger train for your layout/display, and there are already scale passenger cars/sets available, I'd find a painter to shoot the Zito F7's to match the passenger car set you select.

 

From a domestic standpoint, it's unwise to return "Santa's" gift after it's what was asked for.

Now hold on here:

 

There is a little mis-information going on in this thread.

 

Fact: The Lionel cataloged and produced F7 is the correctly numbered AND very closely painted BUSINESS units. I say closely because if you Google the following: “C&NW f7” and select images, you can see the wide variance of the Zito yellow. Even the images posted above are not that correct, way too yellow.

 

Fact: There has been no correct passenger cars made (either in scale or decoration) with the Zito yellow scheme, which would have been the business train anyway.

 

Opinion: Lionel selected a very obscure scheme and (again opinion) ugly version of the classic C&NW green and yellow.

 

Fact: K-line F7s are the closest option for the F7 passenger units. My units leave a lot to be desired, but it’s either that or nothing for now.

 

Fact: There have been a few C&NW Freight schemes done (MTH and Atlas). I think these are F3's and maybe FT's but I'd have to check.

 

Opinion: The guy at the March Meet O scale show has done the passenger cars, but I did not recall the observation car being produced yet, I could be wrong. The cars are in kit form and do have the decals.

 

It is a shame that Lionel chose this scheme, but what’s done is done. The catalog showed the business train and that is what Lionel produced.

 

CGWforever, we spoke about this before the set was released and you stated you were happy Lionel was going to do this set, why the change?

 

Charlie

Originally Posted by Charlie:

 

 

CGWforever, we spoke about this before the set was released and you stated you were happy Lionel was going to do this set, why the change?

 

Charlie

 

Charlie,

 

   Like I said on this forum, I was happy til I saw the actual pictures of Lionel C&NW F units, realized there is no way to match with C&NW passenger cars, changed my mind.

 

   In fact, C&NW DID repainted business train into Zito yellow from Traditional yellow for short time and C&NW realized the Zito paint didn't last longer and returned to Traditional yellow.

 

  If  Lionel or MTH run C&NW passenger cars with Zito paint, I would buy it.

I hope you enjoy your CNW F units! A suggestion for cars since "correct" passenger cars are not available, would be Circus cars. In the 1980s, CNW F's, sometimes with R1 1385 from Mid-Continent RR Museum, would pull the Circus Train from Circus World Museum in Baraboo Wi through southern Wisconsin to Milwaukee. If you want to try and paint a couple of cars to go with these, Badger Air Brush paint has the only Zito Yellow I have found. I would have liked to get these but can't afford them. I spotted the Business/Presidential scheme right away in the catalog and loved that it was done. I have been a fan of them since they appeared in the 80s, growing up just blocks away from the CNW yard in Madison Wi. I was able to see them a few times. The scheme on the Lionel engines is, IIRC, for post 1985 having the black stripe along the side. The Business CNW F's were always Zito Yellow seems the Zito paint problems started with the new formulas of Zito applied to the order of Dash 8's in 1988 or 1989. Those faded and became chalky within a year or so and were repainted Traditional Yellow. If you are interested in the CNW Business Train, The CNWHS has an all color book available for $39. I agree with CGWforever, I would have to buy the Zito cars if they were made!

Hello atery11:

 

It took a little diggin but I think the guy your looking for is 

 

Eddie Wichman of "401" Streamline Models. He is a really nice guy, but I don't see a web site for the business. The below link is from O scale News.

 

http://oscale.uberflip.com/i/296151/8

 

Like I mentioned above, I don't think he had the observation car at the 2014 O scale meet, just what you see posted here.

 

There is one other option for the C&NW molder. Des Plaines Hobbies has brass kits available for the Bi-Levels. Unpainted. I think the price was about $500.00 each for the basic car. Paints, interior, and machanicals are all extra if I remember correctly.

 

Charlie

Last edited by Charlie

Although I'm not a C&NW fan, I believe that Atlas' Trainman 60 foot heavyweight coaches and combines are C&NW prototype cars. Moreover, these are models of cars that were only 60 feet long.

 

Atlas took an old Walthers idea dating back to when Walthers made wood and metal passenger cars and ran with it--make models of short cars that didn't have to be "condensed" to run around the tight curves prevalent on so many model railroads.

 

There are a fair amount of Atlas Trainman 60 foot coaches and combines out there. I doubt that very many of the full-sized cars ever got C&NW's green and yellow paint, but the models could be repainted and decaled.

First let me say Thanks to all those that have replied to this thread. As soon as I started reading about colors not matching I got a little chill up my spine.

 

Being an old engineer I get real picky about things not matching!! For example, Lionel came out with an add on car for the 1992 Empire Builder set and the font on the text was different than the originals. Didn't like it, didn't keep them.

 

In case you don't look on the Sales Forum I posted the F7's last night and I believe they will be on their way to a new home soon. 

 

If anything I learned again, ask first buy second!

 

Thanks Again for all your knowledge and insight.

The C&NW kept a number of passenger cars in the dark, olive green colors, well after the first "400's" began showing up in yellow and green.  They also had some interesting 'shorty" passenger cars that were about 60' long, or about 15" in "0" gauge.  Atlas made some pretty nice models of these cars in coach, combine and baggage or RPO cars, a few years ago.  You might be able to find a set of these around if you look hard enough.  I see that Atlas is planning on reviving these cars in other road names, soon, but maybe they'll do another run of C&NW cars.  You might ask them.  I certainly enjoy running my set of 7 cars, occasionally, although I usually pull them with my Lionel 4-6-0 steam engine.

 

Paul Fischer

Originally Posted by Charlie:

Now hold on here:

 

There is a little mis-information going on in this thread.

 

Fact: The Lionel cataloged and produced F7 is the correctly numbered AND very closely painted BUSINESS units. I say closely because if you Google the following: “C&NW f7” and select images, you can see the wide variance of the Zito yellow. Even the images posted above are not that correct, way too yellow.

 

Fact: There has been no correct passenger cars made (either in scale or decoration) with the Zito yellow scheme, which would have been the business train anyway.

 

Opinion: Lionel selected a very obscure scheme and (again opinion) ugly version of the classic C&NW green and yellow.

 

Fact: K-line F7s are the closest option for the F7 passenger units. My units leave a lot to be desired, but it’s either that or nothing for now.

 

Fact: There have been a few C&NW Freight schemes done (MTH and Atlas). I think these are F3's and maybe FT's but I'd have to check.

 

Opinion: The guy at the March Meet O scale show has done the passenger cars, but I did not recall the observation car being produced yet, I could be wrong. The cars are in kit form and do have the decals.

 

It is a shame that Lionel chose this scheme, but what’s done is done. The catalog showed the business train and that is what Lionel produced.

 

CGWforever, we spoke about this before the set was released and you stated you were happy Lionel was going to do this set, why the change?

 

Charlie

MTH did the FT's, F3's and (IIRC) F7's in the freight scheme, and the F7's and F3's in Yellow. They did two sets of heavyweights -- one in Pullman Green and the other in Yellow/Green (did see a prototype photo of the latter scheme). They did two streamlined, smooth sided passenger sets -- the first in the correct CNW passenger scheme; the second in business train trim. They did offer full dome cars for both sets, but the business train was the only one that had a full dome as they got it from the Milwaukee road post-Amtrak.

 

Anyone able to get in touch with Eddy Wicham, the guy who makes the correct CNW streamliner kits?

Last edited by AGHRMatt
Originally Posted by AGHRMatt:
 

MTH did the FT's, F3's and (IIRC) F7's in the freight scheme, and the F7's and F3's in Yellow.

 

Matt,

 

  MTH have not run on F3's in yellow yet. I hope MTH will run those with 200 series for F3 A units and 300 series for F3 B units. C&NW got good numbers of F3 A and B units from Chicago Great Western (CGW) after merged.

Originally Posted by CGWforever:
Originally Posted by AGHRMatt:
 

MTH did the FT's, F3's and (IIRC) F7's in the freight scheme, and the F7's and F3's in Yellow.

 

Matt,

 

  MTH have not run on F3's in yellow yet. I hope MTH will run those with 200 series for F3 A units and 300 series for F3 B units. C&NW got good numbers of F3 A and B units from Chicago Great Western (CGW) after merged.

You're right. Confused the Rail King E3 with the F3. Another case of CRJ -- Can't Remember Jack.

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