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gunrunnerjohn posted:

The TMCC R2LC/R4LC coupler, light, and smoke outputs are frame ground referenced.

So do I need to take the ground on the ERR AC Commander's coil coupler just to frame?  It appears the NW2 has only one wire go to it's coil couplers (well 2 technically on one end since both couplers are wired together).  I assume the ground for the 1950s coil couplers is just implicit from the metal frame of the coupler through the metal mounting post?

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Hit a snag.  The one coil coupler was fine.  However the one shown above had the the solder point break off sometime in the past.  You can see the loose copper that was previously on the solder point.  The coupler fires if I apply track power to this thread with the frame grounded.  Do you think I could just solder onto the top of the copper wire spool that's visible?  Or is this coupler a goner?  It doesn't look like this is an easy part to get off either.

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mopac01 posted:

IMG_4762Do you think I could just solder onto the top of the copper wire spool that's visible?  Or is this coupler a goner?  It doesn't look like this is an easy part to get off either.

Since you tested it and it worked, I would go ahead and solder to the bottom of the coil so it isn't visible. 

Post pics of the installation of the boards.  That's my next project for my Seaboard. 

Last edited by OhB1
gunrunnerjohn posted:

Clean it up, solder a wire to it, and then glue the connection down so the wire doesn't rip the fine coupler coil wire out if it gets pulled.

GRJ - I'm thinking superglue would be a better choice here than hot glue.  Any different sort of glue I should consider?  Superglue and hot glue are the only things on hand.  But I have to run into town later already so wouldn't be a big deal to pic up something else.  I may get some liquid plastic/rubber to put on top of the fabric covering the coil immediately behind the coupler.  It looks like it's there to prevent the coil from shorting against the frame opening when rubbing or to keep the rubbing from breaking the fine coil wires.  I can see a bit of copper showing where the fabric is worn.  So it looks like it did it's job over the last 65 years.  

I'm waiting for the superglue to dry but you can see the repair below.  I was afraid the metal spring that centers the knuckle would short so I followed GRJ's advice and I put 2 layers of shrink tubing on the ends of the metal spring to prevent shorts against the coil winding.  It was difficult to get the top of the coil very clean and the soldering job was a very frustrating affair.   The coupler was firing but not opening without assistance.  I'm hoping once it's together a little graphite shot into the knuckle will allow it to move more freely.  That's worked on a coupler that didn't want to open before.  And this entire engine hasn't seen the light of day in 2-3 decades.

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Meanwhile, I tackled the cab body.  I cleaned it thoroughly.  I then drilled out what was left of the broken off stem of the radio wheel and put in the replacement from Jeff at ttender.com  I also soaked the Chesapeake & Ohio lettering with a wet paper towel for 30-45 minutes and then gently pushed at close intervals on what was left of the letters try to break them up and used my fingernail to scratch off the rest.  If you scratch too hard you take off the cab paint and you're down to the grey plastic.  Then I soaked the new plastic strip with fresh lettering (also from Jeff) and placed it over a wetted side of the cab.  After sliding it to the ride spot and dabbed excess water off and used a hair dryer to dry it more thoroughly.  I pressed it in place over the ridges to get out excess water and help the now warm plastic lettering conform to the uneven surface.  I was vey happy with the overall result.

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I'm on to the actual installation of the ERR AC Commander board.  But I'm a little confused on the caps for the motor.

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The yellow and blue arrows represent the power from the AC Commander board to the brushes.  I've drawn in black cap representations.  The AC Commander came with new lugs that I think I can place on the side screws of the motor (green arrows point to these) and then wire to common (which both of the green arrows originate from.  And if I understand the instructions on the left side of the photo one end of the cap would go to this new common lug I've added on that side and the other end of the cap would go to the yellow brush power lug.  And on the right side of the photo one end of the cap would go to the new common lug I've added on that side and the other end of the cap would go to the blue brush power lug.  I'd take the common on the motor (where the two green arrows originate) to frame common.  Does that look correct?

One other question - does it matter which leg of the cap goes to common and which leg goes to power?  One leg is shorter than the other on the cap so that leads me to believe it matters.

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Thanks GRJ!  I was stalled until I got your reply as I was afraid if they were polarized I'd short out the AC Commander not knowing which leg was which.  

In the end, the more I looked at the directions and the motor itself, I determined that my proposed connections from the center post of the motor ("field/common") to the new lugs (the green arrows in my post immediately above) were unnecessary.  The screws I connected the new lugs to (one already had a wire holder on it that's visible on the right one in the photo I posted immediately above) are already grounded through the motor frame which is grounded through the armature and connected gear through to the wheels and the outside rails.  The AC Commander instructions stated getting the AC Commander's "common" through direct frame connection "wasn't recommended."  So I took the AC Commander common connection to the right side lug I added (the one where there was already a wire holder) where I connected the one side cap's common leg.  

I'm not quite done yet and I only had enough time last night to try it out in conventional and verify it would go forwards and backwards and that the prime mover sounds were playing.  I'll do a more detailed write up of what I did after I completely finished for anyone coming across this post in the future that wants detailed comments on how to do it for the first time.   

But I went from this 

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To this:

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In an afternoon.

The gap between the engine and heat sink of the AC Commander board (the big aluminum plates about the middle of the engine) isn't really unused space.  As visible in the photo below, this is where the housing for the speaker goes.  The plastic housing for the speaker takes up a lot of space but I felt it was worth it as I expect it provides better resonance for the sound.  I positioned it directly below one of the smoke stacks to give the sound a good place to escape from.  In a total piece of good fortune, the speaker housing was just the right diameter to wedge into the cab shell and stay there with nothing but friction.  You can also see below where I soldered an antenna wire onto the outside hand rail that runs the length of the locomotive.  I plan to add a second one to the other side before I finish, but the kit only included a single antenna wire.

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The one big piece left concerns the coupler connections.  In my one criticism of this kit, it seems to assume you're converting a PW celebration version of a locomotive with an AC motor where the coil couplers have two wire plastic connectors.  But this 65 year old "original PW" engine has single wire couplers without connectors.  I suppose I could try to solder onto the positive pin on the board connector but I'm not going to try that "kludge".  I just need to find a source for the current style coil coupler connector with wires already attached and solder a connection to the existing wires.  

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The coupler connector is the standard JST EH family 2.54mm connectors used on a wide variety of TMCC stuff.  I finally "bit the bullet" and bought a stock of them with the pins and a crimp tool so I could whack this stuff out custom.  You will only need one wire to the coil coupler as the other one is already frame grounded, right?  I forget without checking, but one side of the coupler connection on the AC Commander will be frame ground, run the wire from the other one to the coil coupler.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The coupler connector is the standard JST EH family 2.54mm connectors used on a wide variety of TMCC stuff.  I finally "bit the bullet" and bought a stock of them with the pins and a crimp tool so I could whack this stuff out custom.  You will only need one wire to the coil coupler as the other one is already frame grounded, right?  I forget without checking, but one side of the coupler connection on the AC Commander will be frame ground, run the wire from the other one to the coil coupler.

If you zoom in the photo I posted above after I placed the electronics into the engine you can see the front coupler connector on the far right of the AC Commander board.  As you're looking at it in this photo the left pin is the power.  Before I put the board in I looked at the tracing on the back and the common pin [pins #3 and #6 on the connector between to the coupler connectors as shown on page 5 of the AC Commander manual at http://www.electricrr.com/Manuals/Ac-V5-Inst.pdf ] seemed to be on the same board trace as the right side pin.  You can see where I put a black dot under it in the photo above so I could remember the common side once it was put together.   In that photo above you can also see where I've put a little piece of black heat shrink tubing over that common pin (didn't apply heat though) so I could temporarily wrap the wire from the coil coupler onto the left pin without shorting.   Tonight I'll attach my legacy base to my test track and try the board out under command control, including the couplers.  

GRJ - If you can make me two connectors with a green wire attached I'd be happy to pay you for them.

Last edited by mopac01
gunrunnerjohn posted:

Black dot on the photo?  What photo?

I have lots of 2-wire connectors in my parts box, email me an address and we'll get you set up.

GRJ - I've reposted the photo I was referring to.  It is immediately below.  I've also added an arrow pointing to the coil coupler connector and if you zoom in you may be able to see the black dot I made on the right side pin to remind myself it was common based on tracing the back of the board before I installed it.   To test it last night I put a piece of shrink tubing (did NOT heat it) over the right pin which is where the arrow in the photo below is pointing.  This way I could loop the single cable from the coil coupler to the left side pin and ensure the coupler worked via my Cab2 without risking shorting against the common pin on the right side. The connector visible in the photo is for the front coupler.  The rear coupler connector is on the other side of the board.

I sent you a private message with an address to send the connectors to.  Thanks GRJ!

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Last edited by mopac01

As noted in the immediately preceding post where I was responding to GRJ, I got the coil couplers and the rest of the unit tested under command control with my Cab2 last night.  

My section of test trace had two curves with a straight in between.  I could get the engine to move on the curves but not on the center straight section.  After much track and roller pick up cleaning to no avail, it turned out my yellow motor brush wire wasn't solidly soldered onto that lug.  When the engine straightened it lost contact but as soon as the engine turned with the track made contact again.   I also discovered the two motor brush wires were backward.   Both issues were easily corrected.

I thought I'd been very clever with soldering the antenna wire to the end of the metal railing inside the shell's cab section.  I cleaned the metal and tinned it on the first shot.  The wire attached quickly and seemed strong.  I'd not had to apply a lot of heat.  But in rectifying the backward wiring and broken solder joint I accidentally tugged the antenna cable and broke the solder joint.  Getting it back on wasn't as quick and after 2 tries I could tell the metal railing was getting too hot and melting the hole it went through on the cab body slightly.  So I abandoned what I thought was a very clever idea rather than really damage the cab shell.  I coiled the antenna on the floor of the locomotive between the engine and the AC Commander.  It seemed to work fine that way.  I may try taking it back to the metal railing but rather than solder it just wrap the wire around it, coat it with liquid electrical tape and then slide a small bit of heat shrink tubing on it and apply some quick heat.   My LionMaster Challenger has the antenna wire connected to the metal hand rail from the factory and that sure did seem a very professional antenna solution.  

I'm not sure if the Railsounds from ERR is Railsounds 5 or not.  I put it in my Cab2 as Railsounds 5 until I learn it's not.  Either way, diesel sounds great compared to no sounds at all out of this locomotive in it's first 65 years of life.  It's a major improvement.  Horn, bell and coupler sounds.  Crew/tower talk as well! Plus the separately fireable couplers and directional lighting.  I do think I'm going to replace the original bulbs with LEDs sooner rather than later.  Particularly in the front there is very little ventilation now and all of the electronics are up there to boot.

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