New Manufacturer's Forums!

This is truly a great idea!  I sure hope it takes off and gets the proper support from all parties. For sure there will be lots of less-than-useful stuff, but overall it should turn out being a useful way for the manufacturers to interact with customers and vice versa.

Rod

Excellent idea.

Shouldn't the "MTH DCS and PS2/PS3" subject be on the "Control System Forums" along with the Legacy and TMCC subject, instead of on the "Manufacturer's Forums"?

OK, I will use that. Since you replied without cutting photos, you will have to go back and remove them from your reply above.

Thanks.

Just a suggestion: I have already seen at least two posting on the MTH forum with  generic titles like "Part needed". Wouldn't it be helpful if the original poster gave a little more information? Perhaps identifying what item, like "Part Needed for MTH Berkshire", or even better "Pilot truck screw needed for MTH 4-6-4"?

IMHO, descriptive titles make the forum more useful as repository of information.

RidgeRunner posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I like the idea of the manufacturer forums, but I have to agree with DGJONES, having half a dozen forums for one vender, most with no content, seems a little over the top.

Give it time.   

If the manufacturers really respond as Rich indicates they will, then the content will come.

 

Andy Edelmann responded within one hour to my question on deliveries.  This is great!!

Bryan

I think this is a good idea, having a central location for the reps to check makes sense.

Great idea, but I do not understand it.

If you had a question, why not call the vendor you bought the product from? Or call the manufacturer directly.Why filter everthing though this website?

Fred

C W Burfle posted:

Just a suggestion: I have already seen at least two posting on the MTH forum with  generic titles like "Part needed". Wouldn't it be helpful if the original poster gave a little more information? Perhaps identifying what item, like "Part Needed for MTH Berkshire", or even better "Pilot truck screw needed for MTH 4-6-4"?

IMHO, descriptive titles make the forum more useful as repository of information.

Ditto and this applies to all posts. Why do people short cut the title?

I think this is a great resource and a great combined effort from OGR and MTH.  

audi posted:

Great idea, but I do not understand it.

If you had a question, why not call the vendor you bought the product from? Or call the manufacturer directly.Why filter everthing though this website?

It will become more useful as a few other manufacturers come on board with their new forums. This will become a single point of contact for several manufacturers.

audi posted:

Great idea, but I do not understand it.

If you had a question, why not call the vendor you bought the product from? Or call the manufacturer directly.Why filter everthing though this website?

Fred

Because sometimes you just can't get trough with a phone call or email. Just look at my question on the MTH service forum.  I've got my answer after months of trying.

I could see this will make MTH's life much easier. Over time, when the forum fills with answers to customers questions, all we would need to do if we have a question, is a simple search to get the answer. If we find it, that's one less phone call MTH would have to answer. The service reps could get more repairs done in the afternoon when they would normally be talking on the phone.

audi posted:

Great idea, but I do not understand it.

If you had a question, why not call the vendor you bought the product from? Or call the manufacturer directly.Why filter everthing though this website?

Fred

I could see if the answer to the question you asked would be of benefit to several hobbyists. Items such as shipping schedules, new product information, etc. I think asking about repairs or parts for your specific product ought to be handled directly though.

I also agree that once this subforum gets going, its going to get pretty crowded if each importer gets half a dozen forums. Is the forum software capable of "sub-sub forums" (isn't that called heirachal or something?) where in this example there would be an MTH forum. Once you clicked on it, you would have the half dozen or so subforums

Just my two cents,

J White

j white posted:

...Is the forum software capable of "sub-sub forums" (isn't that called heirachal or something?) where in this example there would be an MTH forum. Once you clicked on it, you would have the half dozen or so subforums... 

The forum software is only capable of two levels of hierarchy when setting up Categories and Forums. When other manufacturers come on board, we may group everyone by manufacturer.

I think that this is a good idea. I think. I hope.

But, the abuses: "Hey MTH - I just read over on the Lionel Forum that they were going to...why don't you..." And that's just an example of one of the reasonably polite possibilities.

I have hope, but I don't have much faith. Prove me wrong.

Hopefully this helps bring them closer to their customers and they take our comments to heart. Great idea. Let's see how this works out.

Like Gerry said, this portion of the forum should not be a complaint section - It needs to be constructive, educational, share ideas and solve problems. 

I am also in agreement with previous posts where forum members complain about being hammered by other members who think they know everything about everything. Some of the posts and comments have / are completely unacceptable. 

From my perspective this over complicates the forum.  I could search Control system and help answer any question for multiple manufacturers.  Or I would search through 3 rail where many problems get entered.  Now searches to help require too much effort and all sorts of stuff will get merged between legitimate manufacture questions to basic troubleshooting.  Was it really too hard for MTH to review the forum and answer questions  If MTH doesn't answer them it will take more effort for the Forum folks that typically answered these question to help other forum folks.  Of course if the Manufactures read this on a daily basis they will get to see the issues their customers deal with on a daily basis.  More change to make the forum great again!  Seriously the main topics need to be round tabled and revamped to help simplify reviews and searches.  Especially when it comes to problems. That is when folks really come to an internet forum.  To help get a problem solved.  Troubleshooting/repairs is not even a main topic.  G

superwarp1 posted:

audi posted:

Great idea, but I do not understand it.

If you had a question, why not call the vendor you bought the product from? Or call the manufacturer directly.Why filter everthing though this website?

Fred

Because sometimes you just can't get trough with a phone call or email. Just look at my question on the MTH service forum.  I've got my answer after months of trying.

Think about this, so some how they do not answer a direct call or e-mail during working hours, but a post here will get everything resolved.  Some one has to spend time reviewing this forum to answer all these questions.  There will be a newness to this, but if parts questions are consistently answered here but not through official channels that would beg other questions.  For me it over complicates the forum, but I am just one member.  G

That was Atlas' problem as it took someone always monitoring the site. If they couldn't do it back when, who will have time to do it now.

Dick

GGG posted:

superwarp1 posted:

audi posted:

Great idea, but I do not understand it.

If you had a question, why not call the vendor you bought the product from? Or call the manufacturer directly.Why filter everthing though this website?

Fred

Because sometimes you just can't get trough with a phone call or email. Just look at my question on the MTH service forum.  I've got my answer after months of trying.

Think about this, so some how they do not answer a direct call or e-mail during working hours, but a post here will get everything resolved.  Some one has to spend time reviewing this forum to answer all these questions.  There will be a newness to this, but if parts questions are consistently answered here but not through official channels that would beg other questions.  For me it over complicates the forum, but I am just one member.  G

I thought about it and think about this, the reason messaging, social forums, and phone answering equipment, before all that, work is because the two parties involved do not have to be there at the same time. The communication can be achieved at the convenience of each of the parties. The other benefit is the economy of the communications which does require the pleasantries of "how is the family", "are the kids doing well", etc.

I like it.

PSU1980 posted:

Like Gerry said, this portion of the forum should not be a complaint section - It needs to be constructive, educational, share ideas and solve problems.

Precisely. Well said.

The manufacturer's forums are intended to become a place for information, communication and education that will benefit a large audience. They are NOT intended to become a "complaint" forum where one person lodges a complaining against a mfgr about something. If that's your intent, take it up with the mfgr directly...do not post it here. We are monitoring these forums as are manufacturer's reps. Threads which are started for the sole purpose of complaining about something will be deleted.

If done right, these new forums can become a tremendously valuable resource for everyone.

Two suggestions:

1. fewer sub forums for the manufacturer, too many different places to have to read.

2. Allow the manufacturer to moderate that forum, and any ****ing matches, or negative bashing (without any helpful benefit or suggestions), then the moderator can just delete the post. There's plenty of places to complain.

Giving the manufacturer a place to be positive will help them feel good about monitoring and helping.

Conversely, if it just turns into another place for free advertising, without really helping the members, then it should not exist. Be sure that is made clear.

I've seen this work well on some forums, and it being just a bunch of free advertising on others.

Greg

Greg Elmassian posted:

...Allow the manufacturer to moderate that forum, and any ****ing matches, or negative bashing (without any helpful benefit or suggestions), then the moderator can just delete the post. There's plenty of places to complain.

The manufacturers CAN moderate their own forums. So can we.

Great... problem avoided.

in think this is a great idea if used correctly! it is always good for information to go both ways between buyers and dealers, and also helps let the manufactures no of problems especially with new engines issues which might otherwise take much longer times for the manufactures to find out about. In the end it will help make and keep running  engines which will help everyone and give more confidence when buying engines from manufacture's . will help keep the hobby at its best and customer satisfaction will be 100%

!

Alan  

Oman posted:

C W Burfle posted:

Just a suggestion: I have already seen at least two posting on the MTH forum with  generic titles like "Part needed". Wouldn't it be helpful if the original poster gave a little more information? Perhaps identifying what item, like "Part Needed for MTH Berkshire", or even better "Pilot truck screw needed for MTH 4-6-4"?

IMHO, descriptive titles make the forum more useful as repository of information.

Ditto and this applies to all posts. Why do people short cut the title?

I've been frustrated with short attention grabbing titles, and I think that is the reason why some do it. It may not be well understood by the poster, but the attention grabbing titles are just that. And they are mostly a waste of time and interest when you read the post.

DGJONES posted:

I do not understand why there must be six headings for one manufacturer.  If you get one or two more manufacturers, the forums list will be pages long.  Seems like one heading for announcements and a second for questions should suffice! 

I agree also.... too splintered.   ONE per train importer should do, if it is even needed at all.   Too much to weed through.

RadioRon posted:

DGJONES posted:

I do not understand why there must be six headings for one manufacturer.  If you get one or two more manufacturers, the forums list will be pages long.  Seems like one heading for announcements and a second for questions should suffice! 

I agree also.... too splintered.   ONE per train importer should do, if it is even needed at all.   Too much to weed through.

First, I think it's a GREAT idea to encourage our toy train importers to communicate directly here on the forums.  Consumer communication is a lost art today, and any company that jumps on board here to communicate well should get major payback for the effort.

Having said all of this... I am, however, completely confused at the current implementation, as things will likely become even more confusing as each train importer jumps on board here.  Instead, I suggest keeping it simple... namely, ONE sub-forum per importer.

I've never been a big fan of over-organizing the information here with an endless array of sub-forums... simply because each of us has our own way of organizing/digesting information for our own needs.  Honestly, I don't even use the current categories -- aside from perhaps the for-sale and WTB sub-forums.  Everything else is just a "nice to have".  More often then not, I visit the forum to participate in recently posted threads.  Seldom do I find myself "searching" for information in the currently organized sub-forums.  Might happen on rare occasions.  But by and large, the RECENT POSTS column is where I look to see what's going on here.

David

P.S.  Oh yes... and I know this is just a pet peeve of mine, but I wish we'd stop referring to Lionel, MTH, Atlas-O and 3rd Rail as toy train manufacturers.  With few exceptions, none of them MANUFACTURE anything anymore.  They do, however, IMPORT boatloads of product.    True, Lionel is doing a smidgeon of "Made In The USA" rolling stock these days.  But generally speaking, these companies work on a business model of IMPORTING -- not manufacturing (directly).  Unfortunately, I don't have a better name to call these companies except for the word "importers".    They don't really manufacture, but somehow "The Importer's Forum" doesn't quite sound right either.    So it is what it is, and we just call them manufacturers out of habit.  Sometimes, old habits do die hard I guess.... and we just apply traditional terms -- even when they're no longer accurate.  How about "Toy Train Company Forums"?

An importer accepts product that is developed and made by a non-domestic manufacturer without any input from the importer. The importer may place an order for such items to be produced, but the product, design and distribution of the product is totally in the hands of a manufacturer.

A manufacturer develops its own products, regardless of where it is made. In the U.S., a manufacturer may either produce products domestically, contract to have the work done elsewhere, or produce products outside the country in nondomestic plants. If it is produced elsewhere, the product is made exclusively for the manufacturer that commissioned it.

The line has blurred somewhat in that, at times, some model railroad manufacturers seem to be bringing in "what's available" instead of playing a direct role in a model's production. And, in the case of China, almost all of the work, including research and development, is now being done overseas. There is also some question about whether the tooling can eventually be used for another company, since China wants to retain all tooling, even when it was made for a specific American company.

But, for the most part, O gauge manufacturers are still "manufacturers" at this point, technically speaking. They specify what product should be made, play a role in the development process (especially in electronic circuitry that is proprietary, such as Legacy and DCS command systems) and hold exclusive rights to those models.

In our hobby, an example of an importer is Walthers -- not for its Proto (formerly Life-Like) line of trains but for everything else in its product catalogs. It has no hand in the design of most of the products, such as those made by Kibri, Vollmer, Heljan and Tomy (Tomytec and Tomix).

So it is correct to say there are both importers and American manufacturers in our hobby.

Jim R. posted:

...  The line has blurred somewhat in that, at times, some model railroad manufacturers seem to be bringing in "what's available" instead of playing a direct role in a model's production. And, in the case of China, almost all of the work, including research and development, is now being done overseas. There is also some question about whether the tooling can eventually be used for another company, since China wants to retain all tooling, even when it was made for a specific American company.

 

But, for the most part, O gauge manufacturers are still "manufacturers" at this point, technically speaking. They specify what product should be made, play a role in the development process (especially in electronic circuitry that is proprietary, such as Legacy and DCS command systems) and hold exclusive rights to those models.

...

 

Jim, agree 100% that the line between strictly importing and strictly manufacturing has blurred. 

In the case of Legacy and DCS, I don't doubt that the design of those systems largely occurred here in the States.  But we've seen -- quite painfully -- that the manufacturing of the electronic components (and even the plastic housings in which the electronics reside) all happens overseas.  It wasn't that long ago that prices for Legacy 990 kits soared into the stratosphere due to Lionel's inability to source them from their Asian suppliers.  Those kits were back-ordered for Lord-knows how many months... maybe even 18+ months...  reeking havoc on the secondary market until adequate supplies brought prices back to reasonable levels.  And MTH is just now delivering its Scaletrax #4 and #6 turnouts after almost TWO YEARS of dealers having access to ZERO MTH inventory here in the States.  Same phenomenon has occurred with Atlas-O track too.  Seems overseas factories are often over-committed, and -- in the case of electronics -- they're very likely building components for much higher-volume US company contracts.

As to product specifications and such... I'd like to believe that most of that still happens here in the States, but I all too often have my doubts there as well.  A couple of years ago when Lionel had catalog'd its California Zephyr cars, we couldn't even get a straight answer from Lionel as to whether the observation car would have a dome on it or not.  Seems nobody here in the States knew the definitive answer, so enthusiasts needed to wait to see what was actually unloaded from the shipping crates.  Now that very well may have been just bad communication on Lionel's part, but whatever the case... it gives us a bad impression, so we draw our own conclusions as to what gets done where.  FWIW, as much as I'd like to call our toy train company "manufacturers", they just seem more like importers to me nowadays. 

You know the old saying... "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then...". 

Whatever we call them though, it's good to see OGR giving these toy train companies a venue here to more formally communicate with enthusiasts/consumers.

David

as someone who doesn't post much but reads a WHOLE LOT ha. this is a great addition to the forum and will be most useful for when someone has a question about a certain product from said manufacture. looking forward to more in the future!

I hope that the manufacturers keep listening to us, and this thread does'nt peter out like a lot of forums. Phil

OGR Webmaster posted:

O Gauge Railroading is happy to announce a new Forum category... "The Manufacturer's Forums". 

This came about through a suggestion made during a meeting with MTH CEO Mike Wolf at the April 2016 York meet.  Mike's idea was to have a place on the OGR Forum for members to go when they had a question about a specific manufacturer's product.  Mike thought this would give the manufacturers an opportunity to become more actively involved with their customers here on the forum by participating directly in threads that were addressed to them.

Today we introduce this new category with the first new Manufacturer's Forum, the MTH Forums.  Within these forums you will find sub-categories of:

• Control Systems - DCS, PS2/3, etc.
• General Topics
• Service Questions
• Products
• Tips-n-Tricks
• Delivery Schedule

MTH has assigned reps that will monitor the topics within their forums and when appropriate will respond.  Posting and commenting will work as usual and the same terms of service/rules apply.   Please use this new MTH Forum if you have any posts you would like to make about MTH products. 

We will be introducing more Manufacturer's Forums over the next several weeks, so stay tuned!

In regards to this posting and the one stating the mth service forum being closed due to not being used by us as they thought it would! I find it rather humorous seeing it's stated they were to be directly involved with assigned personnel monitoring each sub forum! 

No matter just seems I misread this from the beginning?