New Schemes&Ideas for Atlas

Hot is not out on a limb.  Allan has stated on several occasions that his decision to convert from HO to O is contingent on these couplers and some obscure turnout throw.

Oops.  Somebody stole your first name, about two weeks ago. Rather than confuse folks, can you think of a shorter reference than "Hot Water" when I mention you?  "Hey, you"?

"Why is 3-rail so popular in the USA??"

Also, big engines on short curves

As for new schemes, how about the plain jane black lettering 36' Swift reefer as shown on page 103 in THE POSTWAR FREIGHT CAR FLEET book ?

You are correct about going out on a limb & it just snapped! Hope your landing was a soft one as your wrong on all accounts.

I came up to O scale for the love of the size & detail. Shelf couplers are a part of detail just as track or anything else is. I didn't come here to have a circle of track & play with Lionel trains,no disrespect to Lionel they're a fantastic company & produce fantastic products. If anyone wants a lap of track with a single train that's great go for it,I meant no disrespect, that's their choice & am happy for them. My purpose is to fill a 40'x25'area with modern trains as in HO & have all the detail I had in HO only more because of the size. Because of the smaller market of O scaler & the time periods modeled by most modelers here,I'm facing a stiff headwind. Perhaps this is the wrong market for my desires,which I respect,that's my problem to deal with. You have a lack of respect for others desires;I don't criticize your wants why do you tear me down for working for mine in the best way open to me?

But I'm not going away;no brag just fact.

Al Hummel

You left out the sale of his HO stuff........ 

 

Experience here is that he might recoup 10-20% of that investment, if lucky. 

 

Yes,if my HO doesn't bring in the needed funds it makes the choice where I stay,unfortunately,if you need that clarified for you. There's no chance to recoup what I had once it's gone so I have a LOT to consider in my decision. 

 I'd "like" to have what I have in HO now,why not? Why do O scalers have to go by certain standards to be O scalers,apparently "yours"? I very well,if finances allow it,may stay in O regardless of the things I'm going to be missing from HO,but again that's "MY" call. Yes I earlier stated my existence in O was contingent on keeping what I had in HO,i.e.,shelf couplers,ground throws,but that's not the case anymore.

You,Bob,call switchstands,"obscure"? Switchstands are used on all switches except those powered electrically for your knowledge-POOR choice of wording.

Modern modelers are treated like they have strange ideas or a disease that might be catching. Great way to get new people in the scale.

Ok boys enough said on my part,don't know why I waste my breath. If this attitude makes your day,"go for it," I have much more on my to do list.

Al Hummel

 

Al Hummel

Al: Keep plugging away! Tearing down others is what some O scalers like to do even though it is a product that they would not use or could careless about. Heck, sometimes I think it's their real hobby. With more and more modern equipment being manufactured today, shelf couplers I believe are much needed item, not like some obsure locomotive. Stephen

 

J"ust my opinion, potentially, a quorum, my 2 cents, we have concurrence, Well, my opinion is that you have hit the nail squarely on the head!!!! ,  I model 1952, so I won't be one of your customers (cause I'm old school)., Period. Self-proclaimed expert. Prove me wrong!"

Stephen,

 Criticism is helpful,.even when it's negative like expressing doubt the market will support my ideas. That let's me know what I & others are up against. But criticizing just to be hearing oneself talk does nothing. I normally ignore it,but when a fellow's been working 14hrs,has a sick wife,can't sleep 'cause he doesn't feel good himself & has only had 4-5hrs sleep himself & can no longer sleep no matter how hard he tries,the nerves get frazzled,so those modelers hit me at the wrong time.

Perhaps the couplers&other developments I'd like to see will never happen in O scale because of the smaller market plus the fact that many modelers use the Lionel type couplers yet.(?) A statement made by a modeler I believe was overseas,expressed a disturbing fact,but 1 I've had also for a very long time,that O scale is regarded overseas as  the original,"way back when"Lionel type modeling scale. Too toyish for serious modeling. A lot of O scale is that way,as we know. To each his own,no problem,but to see more modelers choose O scale,there MUST be at least as many things available to model in O as in the lower size scales because with the added cost of O,plus the room required to house it,in our world of smaller houses&apartments,it will be unattractive.

 

In a poll I conducted on the O Scale Kings' site, 42% were in favor of shelf couplers,37% against&21% that had no idea what they are. I'd say,depending on that 21%,shelf couplers have a good chance of making the uphill climb. I don't have the estimated 5 grand right now to spend on the initial development. I just had that figure quoted to me,it could go higher even. Right now,all I can do,is hope major manufactures will look further into the idea.

 

Thanks again,

Al Hummel

Gentlemen,

   I would really like to see Atlas O make another run of Steam Era Master Series (WAG) Wellsville, Addison & Galeton Box Cars, this time however in the original 2 tone Woodside Box Car theme.

Would love to add them to my Legacy Shay driven Logging Train.  Would like the WAG Cabin Caboose to go along with the original 2 tone Box Cars.  Atlas has always been great at producing great detailed small mountain railroad rolling stock, hay I can dream can't I!

PCRR/Dave

As one who would love there to be a whole load of modern-era stuff in O Scale - such as I already mentioned, & much more - I'm with Al in what he'd like here, & I do mean this post to be supportive; I just think you may be asking the wrong Company?
As I use Kadees it'd make sense if they did a shelf coupler.
As I use Caboose Industry ground throws (HO size ones!) it'd make sense if they did a modern throw with the big 'loop' lever, as pictured in this thread. I know some have modified the HO version that has a moving target, but it's a tall stand and of an older style.
Those Companies seem to me to be a better chance (however remote) than Atlas, for those products..??

.... I meant "that's what I use" in the sense that I can't bd the only one? In 2-rail O surely Kadees are pretty much the standard, leading coupler product? & if Caboose Industry throws are good enough for Mike Coughill, they're good enough for me...!!

PCRR/Dave,

You hit it! We can dream & hope or we're dead!

Al Hummel

That's true. Not sure how to word my thought correctly here. The smaller the market of O, it's true there will not be as many things offered. I think you basically understand what I'm trying to say. Not all modelers like the same things,just like the era modeled for instance.

Al Hummel

Thank you.

The caboose 210S&109R,I think those are the right #s,ground throw has working targets & will throw Atlas points. I'm looking for more realism such as the "loop" handle as well as 2 counterweight designs on the throw arms like the most common ground throw I've seen used,called the "New Century Adjustable" ground throw.

 Kadee will make the shelf couplers,I'm just so impressed with the Protocraft coupler,to see it in O scale on my freight & diesels would be a work of art as are many things in O scale. HO has a gorgeous model(s) of shelf couplers,but at my age,it's getting very difficult to see.

Al Hummel

It seems inconsistent to use Atlas switches with all of their non-prototypical qualities and at the same time worry about shelf couplers and accurate switch stands.

Ed

Here is Hot Water's limb response:

 

You are correct about going out on a limb & it just snapped! Hope your landing was a soft one as your wrong on all accounts.

 

I think he might be right on two counts, unless you count the HO layout.  As far as I can tell, Allan doesn't have an O Scale layout or really much of an O Scale collection, and he is indeed on a crusade.  The crusade is borderline obsession.  We did try to help - O Scale would indeed be better off with the products he advocates, market or no market.  We explained how he could do it.  Five grand among five shelf-obsessed modelers is not much money these days.  I am surprised that he cannot get a lower price for the masters.  Perhaps five grand includes production?

 

Alan,

If you can locate accurate and complete scale drawings from which I can work, I could probably draw these couplers up in 3d cad.  One way or another, masters could be made from the 3d cad model.

 

Let me know if you find information.  I will have some free time starting June 1st.

 

Jim

And there is your solution.  A volunteer.  Then another to do one of those 3D plastic computer build-up things, 5% oversize.  Use that as "lost-plastic" to generate your metal masters, and you are one step away from production. Let us know how it goes.  Good luck.

Would love to see new runs of the GP-7/9 and SW series - it's been a while !

Thank you Jim,don't know of any plans as of now. Even though I don't have the money to produce it,that would be a VERY POSITIVE 1st step forward. But can't ask you to do it for nothing. Will let you know if I find someone though.

Thanks a billion.

Al Hummel

For rdunn!!!,

 

re: SDL39

 

Sir, Atlas never did shut off the discussion about the Milwaukee SDL39. I still would love to see one and I believe every Milwaukee nut would buy one.

 

Dick

Atlas should probably deliver on engines that were announced 5 years ago like the Trainman Dash 8-40CWs before they announce any newly tooled products.

I would like to see Atlad get rid of the China drives in 2-rail. Then I will start buying their locomotives again.

Stephen

Just wondering if anyone here who has purchased the latest release of switches from Atlas if they fixed the problems. Stephen

I would like to see Atlas bring out an Alco RS1 in Washington Terminal livery.  Atlas did have and RS 1 with this livery several years ago.  I bought one, however, it had too many technical problems.  The dealer from whom I purchased it had to send it back to Atlas 3 times and for some reason Atlas could not correct the problem.  Finally the dealer gave me a store credit so I later purchased an MTH Aerotrain set.  

 

I'm sure the Atlas O RS1 that I purchased was a one of a kind lemon. I have never found another Washington Terminal RS1 since.  I am confident that Atlas O has great locomotives.

A couple of thoughts here.

 

First, you didn't ask me to do anything.  I volunteered.  I'm going to suggest that if people offer to help you with this project which you are clearly very passionate about, you should let them help.

 

Secondly, try to contact Bill Davis (selling as "Brassmonger" on ebay) about these couplers.  At the Chicago meet, I saw multiple iterations of modern 100 ton roller bearing trucks cast in brass.  These were branded under his American Scale Models line.  Similar I would think to what Protocraft offered.  If Bill is interested in bringing new product to market, which would seem to be the case, perhaps he would be interested in these couplers as well.  He clearly has a relationship with somebody that does casting.

 

Jim

Sorry Jim,no offense intended. I know what you're saying I help folks all the time but am used to paying for everything I want not a good scenario, but seems to be a fact of life for me.

 

I have 2 sources which should have the plans. 1 is Burl Rice who has a coupler like I'm headed for in G scale-he made his for G scale I meant. He made his to match Kadee's G scale design. I'm going for the Protocraft design,a fully Prototypically operating coupler. If you go to "My Large Scale Trains," you will pull up his design to better give you an idea what I'm looking for. I keep in contact with the previous owner of the now Protocraft coupler & he agrees totally with my idea of safety shelfs fpr Protocraft's coupler & has spoken to the owner on many occasions,but the argument is modern era modelers make up only 5% of the modeling population. That 5% must hit good sized dollars all the money Atlas has invested in modern rolling stock. I wish I could sell modern couplers to them,but that's a far off dream about as big of dream as the coupler they made UGGG!! My 2nd contact is Sergent Engineering

In trials,the present Protocraft coupler WILL mate with Kadee couplers. Yes it takes a five figure assist,moving 1 coupler to the side & in my experience ,Mission Control,we have lift off!! (In this case,the tie is made).I basically plan to use the same shank design as Protocraft. The only difference between my coupler & there's will be the availability of working shelfs,remolding of the thumb side of the coupler to make it modern, possibly the redesign of the draft gear holes to match Atlas mounting holes.

Overall,it's a shame Protocraft refuses to work with me,especially when I'd be accepting all costs,all I ask is to use their designers,etc., to get add on upper/lower safety shelfs made. I guess I'm missing something here. It's their company they can do what they wish,what I hear & see about Protocraft is they're a driving force for the advance of O scale. Maybe Protocraft feels this is 40 years too soon for O scale.(?) Maybe O scale is so divided between Lionel type modelers & scale modelers & the latter being such a small minority that modern developments like this just won't "fly," I don't know. I only been starting in O scale for 17 months with over 4 grand invested so far. 

I will try to contact the company you mentioned 1st plus my contacts.

To keep this site cleared up,perhaps it would be better to use emails. Mine is ahummel72@yahoo.com.

Thanks again Jim,will be in touch.

Al Hummel

Jim,

Have a lead for you,but due to it's nature please contact me by my email when you get the time.

Thank you,

Al

No offense taken.  What you are trying to accomplish will be difficult enough as is.  No need to make it any harder.

 

Regarding Protocraft, nothing I have ever seen or heard about them suggests that they are a "driving force" in O scale.  They are very good at what they do.  The models are very nice and I like the engineering on the drives.  However, the brunt of what they offer is clearly slanted toward earlier eras.  In P48, they are already serving a niche within a niche within a niche of the model railroad world.  And what you are asking them for is to take it another step exponentially.  It's easy to think that what is important and obvious to ourselves may not strike the same chord with others.

 

I can help with the 3d model of the coupler.  I've already sent you an email about drawing sources so take a look at that.

 

Jim

 

 

  It's easy to think that what is important and obvious to ourselves may not strike the same chord with others.

 

It is even easier to think that one's concerns are so important that everybody must agree.

 

 I say it is time to give Protocraft a break, and leave them out of this very intriguing line of persuasion.  They are doing what they want to, and you should do what you want to.

 

Given that one can easily look back and see what others have typed, would it be possible to use care when nesting quotes?

 

All opinion.

On a similar note, if you are going to quote someone, why don't you use the "reply with quote" option, which attributes the quote to the person that posted it. It's no harder to do than it is to use italics as you do. I'm not interested in searching through a multi-post thread trying to find out who said what! In case you are unaware, the "Reply With Quote Now" is the icon at the bottom right of the post that looks like an empty cartoon strip dialog balloon. Notice how your quote above is attributed to Bob2.

 

Thanks,

Simon

Maybe that's the problem - when you " reply with quote" all of it gets concatenated.  And if by leaving off the original author of that quote I have offended you in some way, I apologize.  I had no idea putting a small quote like that in italics would be more bothersome than endlessly repeating long posts with their successive answers.