New Sunset SD7/9 ....Yeah!

CORRECTIONS INSERTED IN RED:

Great Input from all of you. Thank you.

Comparing the Dash 9 drive and our current system:

1. Dash 9 was produced in 2000, 15 years ago. It was our first diesel in O Scale in as many years.

2. We no longer use plastic U-Joints, they are now all metal, precision machined in Korea.

3. We no longer use Mabuchi ($1) motors, as in all "China Drives too." We use a very stout Canon FN38 motor. We noticed Lionel is now using the same motor in their Cab Forwards. It must be good, eh?

We will be using an 8000 series Pittman Motor in each SD7 and SD9. FN38s are too big.

4. We now employ 3D design for producing all the parts of our new projects. If you want more info on how this is done, email me.

5. We make these to scale, with fixed pilots, correct height profiles, scale size wheels, and all wheels powered, if the prototype had them, full cab interior detail since the motor and drive lays flat. This drive system is not new and not unique. It's been used for 30-40 years in 2 Rail. It's very quiet and smooth. A 2 motor system tends to have some push / pull at start up between the independently powered trucks. We actually start with 2 Rail design in mind and fit these with 3R Wheels and pickups.

6. We listen to our customers suggestions for improvements and use these inputs to detail these models per road name.

7. From the F7 forward we are using Ngineering Mars lights circuits in our 3 Rail models. This is a big improvement from our blinking LEDs. You can find Ngineering on the internet. A great source of model lighting and effect circuits.

8. Since these are scale models they won't run on 042 track. 054 is a hope, and usually they will run on 054 curves. But 072 is the minimum design requirement.

9. We build these to your reservations. If you don't reserve one through us or your dealer, you won't have a chance to buy one. We have to cut off reservations several months before entering production as we order sound systems and parts. Then the qty is fixed.

10. If we don't get at least 20 reservation for a given road, it won't be produced.

11. Keep your suggestion coming, we will make the models you want if there is enough interest.

Thanks Again for your support and advice,

Scott Mann - China

As to why this locomotive is generating so much interest....I can say this.  The prototype has a presence that few other EMDs, or any other Diesel can match.  It's just they way they were put together.  Remember: the SD7 was an "engineering study" according to some sources within EMD at that time.  This should be obvious when you compare the extra features and details built into the design compared to say, the GEEPs of the period. When the SD9 was brought out in 1954, one can see the effects of reducing those features to bring the amount of work required - and price - down.  The SD9 gave you some mechanical up-grades, but you lost some of the "gingerbread" of the earlier model.  My first up close encounter with the real deal was B&LE 454 in Erie back in he summer of '73.  All I can say is that this incredible machine had all the "grab" of any steamer I'd been exposed to up to that point, mebby more!  These early SDs and especially the "7" series just reek personality.  One look and you can just feel the paint being pulled off the wall !   The previous versions of this lokkie have all suffered one shortcoming or another.  Scott's has the potential to unleash the grit and punch of the real thing in model form. In short, my wallet could easily be in serious trouble !

Note copied from Scott post.

8. Since these are scale models they won't run on 042 track. 054 is a hope, and usually they will run on 054 curves. But 072 is the minimum design requirement.

I have two Atlas, early SD35, that should be about the same dimensions as these SD7/9 models. They klunk, and bang through O-54 switches, but they do operate.  Atlas supplied a blind axle with these models to help with tighter curves.  I installed the blind axles on one of the engines and really didn't see a difference. Re-installed the flanged axle and left operate as is.  Note that the Atlas models do not have fixed pilots, but do have articulated couplers.  Fixed pilots on SD7/9 models may make a difference as to how it operates.

Mike CT

And there in lies the BIG DIFFERENCE! No swinging pilots and body mounted scale couplers will thus limit you to 072 curves, without a doubt.

Even 072 curves with fixed pilots, 6 axle diesels are pushing the limits when you run a multiple unit consist. You will mostly likely have to modify the draft gear box to allow maximum coupler travel. The problem is always between the engines, as the coupler shank hits the side of the draft gear box, and the tension causes the engines to tilt and derail. Just a little bit of extra travel eliminates this problem.

In my O Scale Kadee Coupler video series (Part 3), I demonstrate exactly how to address that problem. I had to do this to all my MTH 6 axle engines because I run them as a 3 or 4 unit consist.

Just so everyone understands what they are purchasing. It is a relatively small unit that is going to require some space to operate nicely. 

Coupler pocket mods will be likely for 072 in 2 rail....and depending on the set-up, 3 rail almost for sure.  No problemo !  I also expect that if you use those good looking Kadees with short shanks on these badd boys...you'll be bumping foot boards on curves too !

What will be nice is we can support modified parts post production, i.e. 2R pilots for 3R customers, where the opening for the coupler is reduced for a more scale appearance.

It's all to make things look and run better.

Scott

Just put my order in for 2 B&LE SD9's and 1 DMIR SD9.  Back in the day both railroads were owned by US Steel and occasionally motive power was swapped.  Bessemer acquired a number of SD9's from the Missabe.  I think the Missabe had a fleet of about 70 or 80 SD9's and the Bessemer about 30 or so.  Both roads had high hoods and low hoods(some were chopped down from high hoods).  Surprised there hasn't been much mention of the Missabe.  Would still like to see a low hood unit in B&LE,  Missabe,  & Union but I don't think there is much chance that will happen.

Nick

Scott,

What would be truly great is if you could offer these in a similar fashion that MTH does with much of their current Premier diesel offerings, specifically easily changeable wheels/axles so you can swap to either 2- or 3-rail wheels, interchange 3-rail couplers with 2-rail and vice-versa, and design them so that the engine itself can operate on either 2-rail or 3-rail track via a switch mounted on the underside or in a hidden compartment on the body.

Noooooo!!!!!! Don't do it!!!  Building to the lowest common denominator just creates a poor, compromised model.  The way Scott does it now is just fine.  Design it as a two rail model and adapt it for the three rail market.

Opinion.

Works for me.

Two rail is the way to go...absolutely !    And for you prototype fans, You'll want to get a copy of Diesel Era's Nov./Dec. '95 issue on the the SD7.  Loads of great photos, including all the Espee versions in their various paint jobs....passenger service too.  They also did a two issue series on the SD9, although mine is buried right now, and I can't tell yunz the exact date.  IIRC, it was not long after the SD7 issue.   Best of success to you, Scott, on this magnificent project.   Can't wait to put to put one (or more) of these beasties to work with ridiculous tonnage on an impossible grade! Huzzah !

I prefer having that third rail.  Worked for me at age five.  Still does . . .

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the update. Please give the EMD 40 Series a look for future diesel offerings.

With GP & SD models (and -2s) the amount of roads and modeling time periods is almost limitless.

Yes it does!

the 3R model out of the box on the bottom, and Kadee mounted with the 3R pilot on top

Scott offers the 2R pilots so we 3 railers can have that same look as the 2R models.

Allow me to clarify about two rail.  Best to start with a two rail model, and convert to three rail, as opposed to the other way around.  Starting with three rail leads to waaaay too many compromises, few of which ar eeasy fixes. 

For anyone who not experienced the fine qualities of the current production of 3rd Rail diesels, you will be pleasantly surprised.  I have been pleased with each successive generation of the 3rd Rail diesels and have at least one example of the E7, FL9, FP7 and FT.  The F7 is looking to be another fine project as well.  The growth of this product line has been a steady progression of quality and I am very excited for the SD7/SD9 project. 

As with all 3rd Rail diesels, customizations made by the various railroads will be added to the maximum extent possible.  Not only will these be the best looking and most accurate plastic diesels in the 3 rail market, they will be among the best running.  Road names will likely change based on orders.  As Scott has already mentioned, 20 orders is all it takes to have a road name or specific paint scheme go.  My guess is that on the SP models in particular, all three of the schemes will run.  This is going to be a fun project

I'm sure that the ability to swap out axles wouldn't hideously compromise those concerns of yours, and also factoring in 3rd Rail's own standards.

In other words, I'm sure they could make it work and not make the overall appearance *******ized in the process. 

And BTW, some of the scale wheels versions of MTH's diesels with Kadee couplers installed actually hold up very well against 2 rail versions.

I have been operating my 3rd Rail FL9s and FP7s on 048 Lionel Fast Track curves pulling 18 inch passenger cars and they all make it around the curves fine so I would expect that the SD7s and SD9s to do the same. I have also operated locomotives from MTH on these curves that are listed as 054 minimum curves. Even one that says on the flap of the box minimum curve 072 runs fine on the 048 curves.

But,,,,,you are comparing 2-axle truck units. The SD7/SD9 units have 3-axle trucks with all wheels flanged, plus their overall length is longer than even your FL9 unit.

The 3rd Rail SD7/SD9 is to be made for both 3-Rail and 2-Rail, but nobody mentions this on the 3-rail Scale forum and the 2-rail forum.

Reservations were still being accepted for the SD7s and SD9s. You might need to post an official announcement on all the O Gauge and O Scale forums so that the reservations will be filled.

Andrew 

It was February when the announcements and they still need to fill reservations.

I wonder why there are no recent reminder posts.

Andrew