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Mike,

ME TOO!! New tooling would be great but from what I've seen of Atlas O,the Trainman line is meant to be on the "clunky side"keeping their Master Line the highly detailed line as the cost reflects.

On a side note,I emailed Sam Clark at Kadee about progress on shelf couplers & it's definatlely a thing Kadee is planning,just TOO MANY other things ahead of it keeping it on a backburner.

The Protocraft type shelf coupler,(single & double shelfs), I guess is still in the works but who knows when will it be developed? There seems to be no way to track the product as I have no idea who the main manufacturer is.(?) O scale is regarded as Lionel toy trains in most people's minds and the sad thing is it takes a long time to learn otherwise. I feel this is another thing holding growth in O Scale down. I took a hopper in the local hobby shop last year,I forgot why,but a modeler asked me what scale that car was. I think we'd have more modelers move over to O if they only new the magnitude of it. We need new scale cars & items like the shelf couplers to lift O out of the "toy market" & get it on a more level playing field with other scales.

I congratulate Lionel for "taking the bull by the horns," & producing the new mill gondola. I'd like to see the 4600 ACF cvd hopper made also.

Thanks,Mike.

Al Hummel

Al, no doubt.  I'd love to see Kadee offer the upper and lower shelf couplers.  With most unit commodity cars going to a lower shelf coupler, and all the great tank cars out there, would be awesome to have them. :-)

The Protocraft coupler would be Norm at Protocraft (http://protocraft48.com)

Yeah, it's funny when we first started to take the 2R portable around to shows, many would ask us what scale this is? 2R O Scale, I've never heard of that???

We need to keep it relevant, keep it front an center at train shows with quality layouts showcasing the fine O Scale equipment we have!

 

Mike,

This will be a Protocraft "style" coupler,even using the Protocraft draft box,but Norm has nothing in it. Norm said making such couplers he would never be able to get his initial investment back even. I thought without official conformation,this manufacturer made the 1st Protocraft style coupler. Bill Glouser? Not sure at all. These are supposed to have the shelfs added to the Protocraft body.

Al Hummel

Mike DeBerg posted:

 

Yeah, it's funny when we first started to take the 2R portable around to shows, many would ask us what scale this is? 2R O Scale, I've never heard of that???

 

I am no train expert by any means, but I have known about 3 rail O since the '50s when I was a kid. I had some Lionel trains way back when. However, to be honest I did not know 2R O scale existed until about a year or so after I got back in the hobby in 2011. Boy was that a whole new world when I got back in, had to start all over. Trying to learn about all the new things available is where I discovered the 2R O scale. I did know there was more to O than just Lionel, but the 2 rail O was a big surprise. I am still 3 rail and also still learning and trying to catch up. The selection today is also just amazing, it's really a great time to be in O gauge (2 or 3 rail) that's for sure! I am still learning and enjoying every minute of it.

Just when you think you have seen it all they come up with something else! What will they think of next???  This really is a great hobby, something for everyone,

catnap posted:

He keeps talking about these "shelf couplers." I'm new to 2-rail and I've been using the Atlas stock couplers and Kadee 745 medium shank couplers with absolutely no issues. What is a "shelf coupler" and what are they used for that any other coupler couldn't do?

To the extent, I understood his request, Alan is referring to the prototypical couplers on modern trains when he is referring to shelf couplers. So far, no model manufacturer has offered them or agreed to offer them in O-Scale. The couplers available, including Kadee, Protocraft & possibly others are similar to the regular AAR, Type E coupler, suitable for models of trains from say, around 1934. Shelf couplers are more suitable for modern trains. Most freight cars have a lower shelf coupler, introduced around 1970’s include a shelf on the underside of the coupler, to keep the cars connected in case of a wreck so that the couplers don’t puncture cars, especially important for tank cars carrying hazardous goods, or for cars next to tank cars, so basically all freight cars. Double shelves, on top & bottom seem to be used mainly on tank cars for extra protection in wrecks.

So, for added realism on Atlas-O 25,500 gallon tank cars, they should have Type-E double-shelf coupler. For the other modern cars like Auto-Racks, mill gondola, Trinity 5161 cu.ft. hopper, bulkhead flat car, 89' flat-car, Gunderson Maxi-Stack intermodal cars, a single bottom shelf coupler would suffice.

To add to the complexity, there is also the Type-F tight-lock coupler, that I like over shelf-coupler, that are found on most modern locomotives ordered by Union Pacific & BNSF & also found on modern coal cars like the coalporter. Amtrak & most passenger trains use a coupler similar to Type-F, tighlock but they are called Type-H.

These are just my opinion.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

http://www.columbuscastings.com/couplers_yokes.html

Last edited by naveenrajan

Regular Type-E (no shelves) coupler on BNSF GE Dash-8 locomotive, taken inside their Galesburg shop in 2014

20140627_162116

 

AAR Type-F tight-lock coupler on BNSF GE ES44C4 locomotive, taken at Galesburg in 2015

20150627_151014

 

AAR Type-H tight-lock coupler on Amtrak passenger car, taken at Galesburg in 2015

20150627_153556

Remember that all these couplers are compatible with each other on real modern trains. So, a BNSF locomotive with Type-E or Type-F coupler could be coupled to any freight car or passenger train, if needed or any such combinations. So, the intent would be to just capture the looks of the modern shelf-coupler in O-Scale, while being compatible with existing Kadee or Atlas-O couplers.

These are just my opinion.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

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Last edited by naveenrajan

Maybe, but in O Scale, very smart folks have determined that there is no market for them.  What the heck, ther is barely a market for those stunning Proto-craft couplers.  Everybody wants Kadees.  I don't blame them - my Proto-craft are reserved for the front of my favorite locomotives.  The rest are Kadees and dummies.

Shelf couplers, IMO, would seem impractical for model railroads as it makes it difficult to uncouple the cars by lifting one of them (such as swapping them out in the staging area) or even with the use of an uncoupling tool. By their design, they were meant to stay coupled even if one car's height suddenly shifts such as in a derailment. That said, they'd look good on a contest model.

Well,I never claimed to be smart.  I don't think INTELLIGENCE is an issue here,but rather as with all other aspects of any hobby,it's what appeals to the individual modeler. True shelf couplers HAVE TO HAVE the knuckle open to separate,no 5 figure "lifting the car off the track," but in HO Kadee makes a special tool to open their shelf couplers. If you want simplistic operation,use Kadee couplers. If you want something more Prototypical,use Protocraft.

I've found working with Atlas couplers as well as Kadee,I need to open the Atlas or Kadee knuckle when mating with Protocraft. The idea is to,(as in HO), convert to all Protocraft type couplers as finances permit,or in HO,convert to all Sergent  couplers that have opening knuckles as on the Prototype & which mate best with themselves, but do couple with Kadee as well as McHenry couplers using the same procedure as I'm using in O Scale, as described above.

I truly think a good article covering the history of the coupler in all its forms,would be great to enlighten those modelers that aren't familiar with modern couplers. In the poll I took on another site a few years back,half those voting on whether there was a market for shelf couplers,didn't know what they were. And thank you all here,who have provided excellent information on the shelf couplers.JMO.

Al Hummel

To answer the original poster's query, I don't think another run of Trainman PS-4750 hoppers will show up in the next catalog (July-December 2017) either. You'll probably have to wait until next year at the earliest for an announcement. The current run which hasn't shipped yet appeared in the last catalog (July-December 2016).

MaxSouthOz posted:

Thanks.  We in Oz (and GB), use TTFN =  Tat tah for now  - also Hoo Roo which means the same thing.

Thanks for the additions, those weren't on there and I got them added. I skipped the last one. Not that it's that bad, but when I first made that list Rich edited out some of the items when he formatted the list for me. As I recall he told me things had been edited and why (which I have now forgotten?). Since then I have tried to follow his editing and I think he has just been letting me go with adding things. I don't want to provide cause for more editing or get on the wrong side of things, like the Webmaster!

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