Havent got the engine back from Royz yet. But I'm thinking I'll get it back far sooner than Lionel comes up with a solution. They have had sixteen years, so far.
Another update: spoke with Roy a couple days ago. The gears were broken, the u-joints were fine but going to be replaced with stainless. BUT the wheels were falling off the "pitted" rims. So it now looks like all of this engines shortcomings will be addressed. I will post a video as soon as l get it back. P.S. it already has a chuff board and upgraded smoke unit installed.
Thank you for the update.
Doug
It seems as though some of the "lucky" Lionel Niagara owners have ordered the replacement gears from NWSL. While some are waiting for Mike to come up with a solution. I'm still waiting on Lionel to come out with the 180 watt power brick that they have listed in their catalog for years. Consider this: Lionel has sold huge engines for years, but recently released 096 curve track. I plan on playing with my trains before I die.
Okay folks,
Its been a while since I have reported anything. The two plastic gears which are the weak link in gearbox are being remade in brass with new steel dowel pins (axles). This will definitively resolve this issue for eternity. The drawback is that there are no mechanical drawings for these gears in existence, so the process is painfully slow. It is most probable that it will not be until May/June that we will have the gears in NC and able to order/sell them. I don't have a price at this point, but as slow as it is going, we are making progress.
Sorry for the late update, but that is where we stand currently.
Thanks,
Mike
Good report! Much appreciated!
Mike this is good news, though some will question the use of brass vs bronze which is much more durable. As for prints all you need to know is they are metric MOD .7 (point seven) gears, 19 and 13 tooth. Any gear maker should be able to reproduce the gears given this information along with the width. The steel shafts are 3 mm.
I made delrin copies using Stock Drive Parts gears and 3mm dowel pins.
Lionel at top, homemade just below.
Pete
Mike,
Thanks for the update. I appreciate it.
Kevin M.
Now that the gear issue is solved, does this mean we will see a new Legacy NYC Niagara in the next catalog? 
These gears will make the older unit perform like the new ones being marketed today. Lots more would go into making a Legacy NYC Niagara. Would buy one in a heart beat.
Kevin
I'm ready for one...
I would order mutiple road #'s if they made a legacy niagara with whistle steam. It is my favorite engine.
According to Dave at NWSL, brass gears will turn into powdered brass. So the "eternity" will be short lived. Sounds more like sunshine than a solution. Sticking with the NWSL gears, and see how long the "lifetime warranty" gears last.
Final update before l get the Niagara back and post a video. Talked with Roy today, new NWSL gears installed plus stainless u-joints from the four letter auction site fitted. Roy says it runs smooth and very quiet. He was very happy with the gears. I forgot to mention earlier that the gears look nothing like the original paddle wheel gears, the teeth are angle cut and not as deep. Video as soon as l get it back.
Duke,
Looking forward to seeing the pictures. Also, would like an idea of pricing.
Kevin
A legacy Niagara with all the Legacy sounds (4 Chuff), blowdown, whistle smoke and a good drivetrain will be a hot seller.
Kevin, the NWSL gears are about $12.50 each. Mine cost more because l had to pay setup fees. The 4mm u-joints were $1.60 each. The person doing repairs on my engine was a repairman for the TCA museum if l'm not mistaken. He was/is very happy with the new gears. You can wait on Lionel if you want. I've got a railroad to run!
Duke, did you take any pics of the gears before you sent the engine off? I am curious, they were cut as worm gears instead of spur gears how they would mesh with the gear on the axle. I assume that was not swapped out with the other gears.
Pete
Pete, l didnt post pictures because the gears were made by someone else. Since NWSL was kind enough to make them, l sure didnt want to ruin his sales by posting pictures. We all have to eat. Already gave a informal description. Buy the gears, and fix your engine. They work, brass will not.
P.S. the new gears are a "drop in replacement" for the two white plastic Lionel gears. Nothing else was changed except for the u-joints between the motor and the gearbox and the pitted drive wheels. All of the shortcomings of this engine have been researched, new parts either made or bought, and now being installed. I'm quite sure Dave at NWSL has the gears since someone else has bought a set. Problem solved, end of story
DUKE,
Do you have the part numbers for the gears and the U joints? Thanks for all of this discussion on this matter. Awaiting the video with anticipation. Again thanks.
Do you have metal gears?
laz57, NWSL part numbers listed by me earlier in the thread. But if l remember correctly, the other person who bought the gears from NWSL, stated they were also listed as Lionel Niagara replacement gears. Call Dave at NWSL and order some, then it's time to run your shelf queen!
Thanks DUKE, will do.
laz57,
The NWSL gears for the Niagara are listed as such on their site. I have purchased both for replacement, although I have not experienced problems with mine.... yet. I did replace the u joints with stainless as the original gave up when pulling 12 NYC scale hvywts. Also, as Duke mentioned, I had to re-affix the tires onto four of the drivers, the ones that were/are pitted. I have a post earlier in this thread where I, like Duke, have listed the part numbers and costs. The u-joints I installed are 4mm and stainless steel, easy to change out and work great. Good to hear of the positive impression report from the tech doing repairs on Duke's Niagara, some encouraging news.
Jesse TCA
Cant wait to get it back. Also having a fm transmitter board installed in the tender. That way l can use my stereo to amplify the sounds. Just an idea l came up with, thought it would be more realistic to fill the room with sounds.
Duke, that sounds cool. Please keep us updated how that worked for you.
When l first came up with the idea Roy (www.RoyzTrains.com) wondered who would be interested in something like that. Now he's thinking he's going to be a real busy man. Imagine firing up your Niagara on your home stereo. Those "fatboy" speakers and one or two watt amp won't begin to compare. Then again, the neighbors might not understand. I will post a video as soon as l get it back.
Thank you Duke
dukeofnuke posted:Pete, l didnt post pictures because the gears were made by someone else. Since NWSL was kind enough to make them, l sure didnt want to ruin his sales by posting pictures. We all have to eat. Already gave a informal description. Buy the gears, and fix your engine. They work, brass will not.
Well I sure don't agree with the statement about brass gears not working. My MTH One-Gauge Challengers, Big Boys, Hudsons & GS4 are about 10 years old now and have brass axle gears in them along with metal worm gears and I'm having zero problems as those things are bulletproof. Now LGB, Aristo, USA Trains diesels & Piko loco's all use plastic gears and they chew them up all the time. It's clear that NWSL has recently changed owners who wants to machine & sell plastic, not brass gears.
Casey, how do you know your gears are brass and not bronze? When machined they appear very similar. Bronze is a preferred material for gears. Others familiar with metals have said brass is not ideal for gears. Bronze is no harder to machine than Delrin.
Pet
"Brass on metal" is not brass on brass, as would be the case in the Niagara gearbox. Apples and Oranges. Myself, l value the opinion of a gentleman who makes gears for all manners of toy trains.
Just checking in. Got home for the weekend, and havent received the Niagara yet. Will post video asap.
So is there an update? After all these posts, it sure would be nice to know what happened, particularly since it's now been nearly a month since the repair reportedly was completed. Thanks
Waiting on the engine to be shipped. I guess the holdup was swapping out the new wheels for the pitted ones. Should have it back by next weekend, but without the fm transmitter. Still working out antenna issues on that one.
Talked with Roy yesterday, the Niagara will be shipped on Monday. He did say that he put the engine on his layout to test it. Pulled ten scale cars plus two "heavy weight" passenger cars with no issues. I will post a video of it pulling the eight Lionel heavyweight Vanderbilt cars that broke the first set of gears. That will be next weekend. Thank all concerned for being so patient.
Last time I spoke with Mike R. they were planning to possibly have new gears in late May - that might have changed but I have been off OGR for 6 weeks due to my business obligations.
K
Seems to me, they are closing the barn door after the horse has gone. Lionel has had sixteen years to come up with a solution. Now they are going to offer customer support AFTER a solution was found by a customer. Go figure.
Good Luck DUKE. Awaiting to see the video.
I hate to bring this back but how about some updates. Duke did you get yours back and how does it run?
Doug
